|This member plays War Thunder on Windows|
|ATGM main, which likes his indirect strikes. Incoming artillery fire!|
|This member considers FV102 Striker the best tank in game.|
|This member considers IS-7 the best tank in rank V.|
- 1 Who am I?
- 2 Relative camera controls for ATGM
- 3 Paranoia and conspiracy check corner
- 4 links to remember
- 5 Talk/comment section
Who am I?
I'm a British ground forces main, registered my account at 2016, but really started playing in 2018. Mostly playing in AB, since I feel like vehicles there have most balanced stats game-wise there, if you forget about wallhack and aim assist up to 1km range. If not for those two facts, I'd never ever leave AB, lol. Actually, either of these options on their own would be fine, but together it's is a bit too much sometimes.
I do have some planes, but bombers that I used are very moody mistresses, they have gunners that either destroy every fighter in 360 degrees and on max range, or do nothing. Hurricane MK IIB/trop and Nimrod II so far left the best impression on me, and so I mostly prefer sea fighters over anything else.
Favorite ground vehicles so far
A30 SP Avenger - It really lives up to it's name, whether you snipe with it, or drive it GTA style. Never fails to deliver your salt, even in uptier.
A39 Tortoise - It is fun to play as breakthrough tank, or just to be a giant "boss" tank for players to shoot at, preventing spawn camping. You really will love those instant karma moments, even if you get nothing out of it. Though Germans love to destroy it, and some players outright punch through the middle of it, sadly.
Falcon - It's more effective tank than most rank 5-6 tanks, especially if you know how to fire at tracks with auto cannons, forcing enemy to turn and get destroyed... And it's a good AA, lol. But with every patch Gaijin increases repair price for it in AB by 6k. Lately finally nerfed it from 22k to 14k. Why is it so expensive? I dunno, beats me. Be careful with trigger discipline, single belt rearms for a minute and then reloads for as long. You will be destroyed :D .
Radar SPAA in general - Since the lock-on update playing such SPAA became a bliss. As British main I just use Marksman right now, which can incinerate every light vehicle in 2km range on top of shredding anything that flies. It also generates hatemails like crazy, since people underestimate it due to it's snail speed and ridiculous size.
All British ATGMs - That feeling when people just despair and give up in their own cover under ATGM rain is priceless. They launch up to 10 artys at once on you. It makes you feel special, even if you do die from it.
Hated ground vehicles so far
Conqueror MK2 - God, this thing gets lit on fire even by random vehicles blowing up near to it's side, and explodes from random shots to the track. I even got destroyed by Centurion AVRE, that MISSED me. YEAH. I realize that this vehicle is great in RB and all, but why it is so flammable in AB is beyond me.
Warrior - I love it, but I also hate it. Why BMP-1 cannon shell can hull break warrior even when it hits add-on armor, and cannot hull break striker? Why BMP-2 bullets can instantly destroy armour plates from over 1.5KM and instakill it? I got hit by ATGM from IT-1 and lived somehow, losing all armour on my left side, but cannot survive BMP? How is that??? Also, Soviet light tanks now can survive hull break by being hit into engine or even radiator, but Warrior seems to not be able to do that. Common sence is overrated, I guess.
IS-4M - whenever I meet it, I don't live long enough to understand where to shoot it, lol. Appearantly, you just shoot it below turret into that giant triangle, and it either explodes, or you are just screwed.
Relative camera controls for ATGM
Okay, this is very seriously important for any british ATGM main, if you really want to destroy the opposition. It fixes camera issues in melee range and when camping on steep hills.
You need to set "relative camera angle" for your aiming, by going to control-tank-camera control - "view in battle - ground (Y axis)".
In new menu you need to activate "relative controls" and "keep value for disabled axis", then set buttons for "Increase value", "decrease value", "enable axis" and "reset axis value". For example i set them to NUM 7,9,8,4 respectively. The sensitivity is up to taste, but i took it to the extreme, as it's faster to do.
What it does: you use "decrease" and "increase" value to set a direction for camera (down or up basically), and on press of "activate axis" it detaches your camera from your reticle by a certain angle. You can make your camera look sky-high up, so when you actually aim in front of you, you can now truly aim for enemy, not just randomly fire missiles everywhere, enabling you full melee combat capabilities, allowing you to look behind ridges, while aiming, and fixing the damn problem i showed in first post. Or you can fire upwards without looking at the back of your vehicle (though that's usually fixable by just pressing Z, but i digress :) )
When you are done, you use "reset axis value" and "activate axis" to return to normal aiming mode.
It's also possible to do to horizontal axis, allowing to see people behind rocks as you turn missiles there, though it's less useful.
Now only thing left is finding out if it's possible to ruin semi-auto aiming by triggering manual control by a button somehow. Though i doubt i'ts possible.
Paranoia and conspiracy check corner
Space for special MG penetration tables/graphs (if ever finished)
Yes i am aware that different rank MG's and minor caliber changes of certain factions should and might be different on different ranks, but i digress for now, since difference seems insignificant to me ingame, as seen in 7.92.
Anyone is welcome to add info on different calibers, or add specific faction calibre (like french 15.00 or whatever)
HT: heavy tanks, HTD: heavy TD, as in Foch, ISU, and so on.
By heavy damage is implied, that it can destroy some module, but doesn't pen entire vehicle. (if ammo doesnt explode in 1 hit, specify that)
By destruction implied, that if it hits you, with it's ROF you are probably screwed.
low caliber SPAA and autocannons included to compare with french coax autocannon and check other abnormal dps stuff (pen*rof), do not add more of those
In case if you don't know if your LVEH can be penned by MG or not, just use armour protection analysis on your vehicle against BMP-2 AP-T belt and then compare it to numbers in table. That will give you the jist of it.
|Caliber||Presumable pen point-blank (against RHA, or whatever number bmp2 "protection analysis" check says)||presumable pen at 100m (against RHA or whatever number bmp2 "protection analysis" check says)||ROF||Who uses:||Tree removal (y/n)||Stone wall removal (y/n)||Damage to external armour||DPS to flat rear of TD (45 mm homogenous armor) (tested mostly on IT1)||DPS/TTK to sloped LVeh (50-65 mm aluminium AA7017)||Dps/TTK to angled sides of Lveh/armored turret (20-30mm~~ aluminium 7039)||TTK to unangled/ unarmored LVeh (15mm in general, aluminium 7017)|
|30mm warrior gun, APDS loadout||110||101||Very low||Warrior||Yes||Yes||ERA, doesn't seem to do much else||Damages engine||Heavy damage, 6 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage, ~2 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage|
|~23cal AA only SPAA gun combo||~46||~45||Insane||Non combat SPAA like ZSU-23-4, wirbelwind with no ap ammo and such||yes||Yes||Significant||Damages engine.||appearantly deteriorates even permament armor to 0 in 3 seconds or so, resulting in destruction. RNG/bug/feature?||Destruction||RUN|
|20cal vulcan gun||58||55 (it got buffed i think, because how The 23 mm does less damage??)||~infinity||M163||yes||Yes||It seems to not care.||It shredded Vickers MBT from the front eventually, and it has 60 mm RHA, sooo, yeah.||Instant death due to millions of ricochets all over the smallest weakspots. Hilarious.||RUN||RUN|
|20mm Crusader AA cannons and such||41||~39||Heavy since twin guns..||Most early autocannon tanks and such||yes||Yes||Seems to not damage 5mm plates||Penetrated, despite it being statistically impossible, or Bypasses external armor (5mm)||Unknown||Destruction||Destruction|
|BMP2 30mm autocannon, AP-T load||64||61||medium or insane||Bmp2||Y||Y||instant destruction||Unknown, probably destruction||AP-T seems to not penetrate ~60, for no reason. It seems having high ground may help.||Destruction||Destruction|
|20cal coax cannon||47||supposedly 34 (unverified source)
44 , 31 up to 500m by ingame stats (nerfed lately)
|Heavy||French rank 6, amx-30 (r5) and some top german MBTs||yes||yes||Unknown||Unknown||Can cause Destruction for unknown reason.
No damage to ~55mm of alloy7039, or just doesn't damage heavily sloped armor. (unlikely)
|Destruction, but no AOE damage, so it damages weakspot of LV with 30mm but nothing more so far. At least from french gun.||Destruction, 1 sec max|
|15.0 mm MG||36||34 (ultra nerf down from 45 lol)||unknown||French HT and HTD||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|14.5 mm KPVT||45||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
42 by ingame stats, but seems doubtful. (how da hell it's still so op when french one is nerfed??)
|low to Medium||is7, is10m, soviet HTD rank 5||yes||unknown||Unknown||Unknown||Does nothing to 60+mm, but either 38 or 44mm on warrior's alloy 7039 rear achieved destruction. assumed 50mm of AA7039 seems to hold off.||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction|
|12.7 mm DShK and such||29||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
27 by ingame stats
|low to Medium||HT and HTD , some MBTs of rank4+,||unknown||unknown||Unknown||None||None||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|12.7 mm M2HB USA edition||26||25 by ingame stats, but seems to be around 26.||low to Medium||USA on rank2+, half of JPN vehicles on any BR||yes? At least on direct hit on a small tree.||unknown||unknown||None||somehow did damage after 5 sec or fire from M103.
perhaps hit weakspot with ~30mm.
|unknown||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|8.00||10||9 by ingame stats (how even if 7.92 is better?)||???||Italy up to rank 2||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|7.92||13||less than 13?
12 by ingame stats
|Medium||German tanks before rank 4, their HT and HTD past rank 4||unknown||unknown||ERA only||Unknown||seems to do no damage||Unknown, since nobody tries to use it on selected vehicles||Resistable|
|7.7||10||9 by ingame stats||Low||Japanese rank 1-3||No||No||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||useless|
|7.62||10||less than 13?
9 by ingame stats
|Low to medium, heavy on rank 6||German medium vehicles rank4+, french before rank 6 and most british tanks use something similiar, most USSR mbts||No||No||ERA only||No damage||No damage||Nonexistant/ignorable||seems to be useless even point-blank vs ~13mm aluminium alloy|
|7,50||10||9 by ingame stats||unknown||French at various ranks||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
I gather that SPAA guns penetrate at least 7mm more than ingame tip says, at least for aluminium... And with highter ROF it may cause instakill even on vehicles, that are supposed to be permamently resistant to it, so probably MG does that as well. Perhaps there is some HP value in structures that i'm unaware of or sth. External armour seems to not faze them, anyway.
Also in my experience insanely high ROF of BMP2 allows to annihilate warrior through side add-on plates from over 2kilometers, which should be impossible, which only further increases mine suspicions. Even if we consider plates as dead after ~10 hits, this still seems fishy. The only time i survived BMP2 was when it was completely stock and fired on me at 20 degree angle in LowROF mode, and i executed them in 2 seconds (so 3 seconds TTK time from ZSU test is still relevant in my eyes).
After getting more proper specific info for all calibres (without oversimplifying it maybe, if someone can add info for rest nations, or even per-rank, if possible) i'd want to find a way to convert it into colourful graph or table.
For lols, we could also make similiar autocannon chart for MBT armour VS IFV/combat SPAA autoguns, since it's appearanly a problem for tanks on all ranks.
Conclusion for armor protection so far:
AP-T (incindenary Armor piercing) ammo negates inclination armor modifiers, just like APHE of soviets, which makes it as good as APDS against angled armor, which is extremely unfair (lol).
However, IAP seems to have much worse ricochets angle than APDS and such shells, so high ground negates it as long as you have 65mm total. APDS cannot pen much more at this angle either, because it has no modifiers, just huge raw numbers.
This kind of explains how the hell soviets HMG destroy sloped turret of warrior in 1 hit, but sometimes cannot destroy Striker's hull even with BMP2 guns for example.
The weirdness is further increased by fact that aluminium alloy has huge penalty to armor (which is not properly displayed in statistics, and goes all ways from 20% to 50%) and insane ROF of auto cannons and such, which convert 5% chance of pen into guaranteed kill.
External plating often seems to be completely ignored whenever penetration of enemy ammo > armor of plate, or just gets destroyed in 5 hits at it. Doesn't even have to be angled for this at certain points. This explains how the hell BMP-2 deletes warrior from 2km range.Even if you nitpick and check side skirts from top and it says "6mm" it still makes no sence, since 44+6=50+angle because firing distance, that's already enough to stop bullets from 500m, but protection analysis says "34". I guess if you take 70% of both numbers that's going to be it. (because aluminium alloy i guess) That's all fun and all, but you still have RNG roll to get penned at ranges where armor is insignificantly better than penetration.Seems to be proved by panther D side (40+5) being penned by Crusader AAmk2, and striker armor being eventually destroyed by "shilka". Also most light vehicles have glaring weakspots with 10mm less armor (like this isn't enough, lol)
As in, the protection analysis feature seems to like to ignore external plates for life, so it's safe to assume, that on random occasion bullets can just go through them anyway. They still protect from HESH and single cannon shots though.
High ground seems to help against MG and Autocannon in case of solid permament armor, however if in case of Striker transmission eats any bullets coming through LFP, in case of warrior the external shield (made of rolled homogenous armor, tons of NERA and even 38mm more aluminium, just saying) that is supposed to stop anything going for driver thought LFP will be ignored, resulting in instant death, since bullets will just pen it and explode the ammo rack through driver (because screw logic i guess).
Required precise test of every MG type onto warrior's ventilation shield weakspot, specifically frontal protection plate and rear (on both the 38mm door and 44.4mm rest) to find out if it's all the same with 12mm, 14mm, 20mm coaxial, 7.62mm for this. External armor seems to be majorly useless against kinetic damage, so yeah.
Even if BRs allow different ranks of MGs to be used on you, simplified graph would look kind of like this:
Your vehicle's hull vulnerability to MG in your matchmaking:
I want to do it through Colours if possible.
Black = instant death,
red = only tankable by front, can still destroy your armor or damage fatal weakspots/turret/cupola and cause your death somehow,
orange = Only tankable by front,
yellow = angled sides can tank it,
green = only rear or not-so-obvious weakspot is endangered,
white/blue/idk = no threat.
Instead of faction names could use flags.
Possibly, we will want two of these per vehicle, if it will be known, that high ROF or focused fire of many vehicles even of low cal can delete your vehicle, or simply to show danger with/without weakspots in general (for example warrior wearing ADD-on armor is okay as long as you broadside and they fire on your hull, but they still can try to wreck your turret with HMG, so GG., as for without ADD-on armor... well... rip.) Perhaps i can use lighting icon to symbolize "likely crew incapacitation".
What certain shell types are like in-game (for real)
Section for conspiracy debunking. Basically, you write what shell does in certain mode and how it really works in your experience (not in damage protection analysis).
Other people are welcome to write/correct their opinion, just add the signature near to your statement, so I won't erase it by accident later.
- Kinetic ammo: Damages by hitting enemy vehicle or insides. Can go through objects, and sometimes even solid walls.
AP-I: Ammo for practically all your MG's and base ammo for most autocannons.
AB: High ricochet chance, otherwise penetrates easily and then explodes? (or something) Extremely sloped armour destroys it.
AP (pure): Does not explode after pen and just goes onward, penetrating whatever is in the way. Causes wide armour spalling from entry point. Mostly used by brits (later shifted to high mass sniper APDS) and french (with massive 25kg shots then into APDSFS). SPG caliber pure shells can do scary damage even after hitting heavy armour. The higher the mass of the shell, the more absurd amount of spalling it causes when breaches armour.
AB: The weaker the armour it hits and the higher caliber it is itself, the more spalling it seems to do. For example, if 15 kilogram shell's penetration is two-three times the armour, for example after penning LFP, then it manages to penetrate and obliterate transmission and whatever it is behind, resulting in tank annihilation. (ex: lorraine 40t VS Ho-Ri production, if lorraine penetrates LFP of Ho-Ri, it is just a toast no matter what due to ammo racks and crew being destroyed, but mantlet shot is much less dangerous due to lesser spall.)
AP(CBC): Basically same thing, but has normalization buff (IE if you screw up the shot it may reduce impact angle by a bit).
AP(C): Same thing, but generally these shells are so awfully low quality, they barely penetrate even with a buff. Depends on situation, though.
AP(CBC) (soviet and certain italian tanks): Tend to have BS 10-40 degree normalization angle, which makes it lolpen anything, until it ricochet or fails. Main issue is that they have slightly less penetration than the others, sometimes leading to hilarious incidents, as RB Germans using KV-IB (Germany) against soviets and basically achieving god mode, as they cannot penetrate their own tanks.
AP(HE): Less spall damage, but has a bomb which ticks off if hits something of ~15mm thick depending on fuse type (effective armour, not just 15mm of something). In interface looks like orange explosion around the shell. Fuse length can be abused to make shell explode outside of tank, but only a few tanks can do that.
AB: Explodes a moment later, doing insane damage. Seems to be weak to "internal armour plates" such as RHA lists and such. After penetration, if fuse wasn't triggered, can penetrate anything in the interior as if it doesn't care. Once fuse is activated, it can ricochet back inside off even 5mm construction steel (as often can be seen to happen with light tanks) Shrapnel can be stopped by engine or fuel tank, but only if explodes into it.
APCR: High penetration for lesser damage than pure AP. The spalling is more focused and copies shell trajectory.
AB: Bad against angled armour, but from long distance it may as well just fall flat on it and pen anyway, which is heavily helped by AB aim assist. SMH I don't see the 'weaker damage' part, as it sometimes one-shots heavy tanks. Though, it's certainly less than APHE due to focused AoE.
HVAP: Replacement for APCR/APDS on certain vehicles, including, for example, BMP-2 .
AB: Extreme intolerance of angled armour due to ricochets, but otherwise penetrates anything it can.
APDS: High speed, High accuracy, High pen, no normalization. Practically does only damage in line it went in and out. Because of no normalization part, still skillful to use. Sometimes not much better than certain AP shells penetration-wise for same reason .
AB: Does less damage the more armour it had to penetrate with main "bullet". At top power high caliber APDS can spall and obliterate weaker vehicles to some extent. At bottom power level might need 5 shots to set off 1 shell in ammo rack. If shell hit tracks or optics and then hit hull, which it had not enough energy to penetrate, it may say "shell shattered". Yes, that can happen, as easily seen with warrior. So it's better to fire at weakspots or from favorable angle, not just aim at ammo rack/crew in general.
APDSFS: Nearly no falloff, insane range, does BOTH spall and direct damage, near infinite normalization value. Can penetrate ANYTHING, as in, can lolpen multiple tanks(and all and any of their modules), a house (which normally looks unpennable) and few walls, until finally stopped. The absurdity of penetration power depends on it's quality (from early 360 pen apdsfs to ridiculous 780 penetration in endgame) and hidden stats (like material of shell or w/e).
AB: Outright hull breaks weak armour.
- Chemicals (BOMBS): Have fuses that explode, if hit ANYTHING. Can cause hullbreak.
Does specifically different type of damage, and so special armour types negate it better than kinetic ammo. General examples: ERA (special plates on top of vehicle which dampen the hit a bit by exploding back into it or by other means, usually one time use), NERA (permanent composite armour, usually visible with X-ray), spaced armour (Random trash on top of tank, "side skirts" and double-layered armour).
RB: Generally have AOE, even if not supposed to, which is affected by "explosive mass". At least looks like it.
HE: Explodes on hit. 360 degree AoE. As such, sometimes used to penetrate top/roof armour, which generally have laughable 20-40 mm lists covering them, compared to 100-300 mm. Can also be shot below the tank, at MG on top of commander's hatch, or even pushed into turret's ring, depending on enemy tank's oversights.
AB: Some vehicles are rigged to instantly explode if hit by it, even if it didn't penetrate. Hilarious.
HEFS: Used by certain soviet top-rank tanks. Flies faster and at less obscure angle.
RB: If it doesn't outright terminate enemy tank, it's usually powerful enough to wreck it's gun and whatever else is caught in blast.
HESH: Forces all affected armour, which is weaker than shell's pen to spall into tank. Like APDS, it's better if armour is MUCH weaker than the shell, but still exists. Does more pen, the more angled surface was (until it just ricochets). In any mode sometimes hitting track insides with it obliterates vehicles, but in RB its more likely. Little spaced armour shields on front of vehicle (like M163 has) and side skirts negate it due to low amount of armour being transformed into "projectiles" and main armour plate being unaffected by blast. Despite that, being actually hit by HESH to unprotected side near to ammo rack often ends in fiery explosion, so it's not to be ignored as a possibility. It also has capability of ruining super-angled turrets, if shot exactly to the weakspot.
RB: Trapshots become more reliable.
HEAT: Flies towards target at a very particular angle, then blasts everything in front of impact zone like APDS. Least likely to hullbreak and least AoE. Due to high angle of attack, usually its wiser to look at 30 and 60 degree penetration, not 0 degree one.
HEATFS: Same as above, but flies more directly and faster.
HEAT usually have line projectile pattern, similar to APDS, but, unlike one, it can be blocked or derailed.
ATGM:Same as above, but you guide it yourself. Has enough power to oneshot tank, if pens (will very likely pen and almost impossible to ricochet if driven into tank on purpose).
AB: Kind of damage tank it hit, generally going forward from impact point. Can be blocked by fuel tanks and engines, radiators, armour lists, ETC, if they are huge enough. (As example, Swingfire, which has virtually no armour, can tank all the ATGM's from BMP-1 with it's fuel tank and then wreck it for being a nuisance. Or not, because BMP also can catch ATGM with it's engine and radiators, preventing hull break.)
RB: Violently explodes, wrecking light tanks, even your own tank, if you want to. ATGM ammo rack is also more likely to toast everyone around you, if it got hit.
Some random images left by wiki moderator to help me remember how to upload pictures:
Link to upload stuff : http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload .
Link to optics gallery: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Optics
In case if you want to write exactly here:
@Bangerland, here are a couple of options for formatting images here on the wiki. You can check out options on Google for GIFs (although, I don't think the formatting is much different for them). You want to make sure when uploading images, that you don't upload copyrighted images (without permission). Feel free to load images you take from the game, public domain images or copyrighted images which you have received permission and annotate in the information section of the image posted.
Here is the link to upload images and GIFs: http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload
Does someone maybe know a way to use the marketplace thing without double authentication? Wanted to exchange some junk to get decals for fun, but this thing just wont let go... IDK why every company just assumes i have 2k$ phone, or have time to set up emulator, or even care about mine account's safety. It's really frustrating to me, because decal even costs like 0.13 points of whatever the currency is, and i could get 4 easily by dumping SU-85a, which i wasn't going to ever use anyway. If that's oficially and even unoficially not possible, at the very least some recommendation of easy to setup emulator would be nice. (bluestacks gave me headache previous time i tried to use it.) --U42773747 (talk) 21:51, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't have a recommendation. I was able to set up double authentication, but the market still would not let me purchase anything so I didn't pursue it any further. I have used Bluestacks and it seemed to be a resource hog and worked most of the time, but recently I have switched to MEmu (https://www.memuplay.com/) and that one seems to run a bit better and is fairly easy to get going, maybe that will help with the emulator portion. -- AN_TRN_26 (talk) 01:30, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Another question - is there any way to learn exact magnification value on tank/gun? X-ray and stat-cards seem to not tell optics zoom on tanks. Would never tell ST-A1 is a decent tank, but OH GOD THIS OPTIC HAS AT LEAST X12 MAGNIFICATION. I mean... Many rank 6-7 tanks wish they had optics this good, you can even see tanks from over 1km in detail with this. If not , maybe we should include optics as a detail on tank pages if possible? --U42773747 (talk) 17:16, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I don't play tanks very often, so I don't know, Inceptor57 or one of the other mods may have more info on that. If there is enough information to write up on the optics (if there are really that many different ones/zoom levels) then it's possible a small section may be worth is. You can always work on mocking one up on your page and we can see where it goes. AN_TRN_26 (talk) 18:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- Problem is, only few tanks display optics info. Like... uh. I only found it on newer tanks of rank 6 and leopard line, as example, you hover over one of 89-s numerous optics, on one of them you see "optics X2-X8 zoom". The warrior just says "Optics X8", challenger "optics X4-10". But even in rank 6 i look at many tanks and see nothing (like KPz-70 data is omitted), and i have failed to find ones at rank 5 and below, except for Leopard I. I suspect those had to be filled by developers, but weren't in case of at least 90% of vehicles. And so, i don't have any solid information, only the subjective zoom impact info from comparing one to another. Well, because even default (minimal) gunner zoom is always different too, i have no clue what X1 even looks like. And some scopes seem to diffirentiate even by X0.3s, as Leopard A1A1 suggests, which is mind boggling.
- The difference is about like this (actual magnification extremely subjective, but the proportion i judged by "compass" on top of screen, which changes the distance between degrees with zoom magnification, so its still sort of true): Rank 1 tank has only X2 zoom as default (i suppose as things look closer than from 3PV) and X4 as second one (on press of Z), then you have rank 4 tanks with mostly X2-4 as default and about X4-5 as secondary, but you do get expections on tanks like M26 "D.C.Ariete" with X5 and X6. And so is with the many of the medium tanks, with X4 you barely see tanks at 1km range. Then you have sth like Object 120, which has X4 as default and about X8 as secondary , or Ru 251 with ~X7 and ~X8 , then you have something like German SPG Panzer IV/70(A) or rank 7 Challenger 2 which is supposed to be "the ultimate hulldown tank", and these ones have ~X4-6 by default and about X10 as secondary zoom. There is also Leopard A1A1 (L/44) which has like X10.3 as default and X12 as secondary zoom. And finally you have something really rare like Leopard 2K(and few other from those lineup), or rank 4 ST-A1 with about X8 as default and X16+ on secondary zoom (and probably the entire japanese tank line after that one too, as their rank 6 premium has similiar scope). The damn default zoom is as good as than the last one of top tier "sniper tanks". And what is worse , only few tanks have this insane optic. And the difficulty of aiming is different too, as the marks on scope (which say the shell drop distance) also become bigger and have quite the distance from eachother on that scope, even with APDSFS, so you don't have to stare at your screen so hard. You know, i often questioned Leopard 1 driver's sanity, as they constantly go for cross-map snipes and hit me in SPG from 2km away on the move, when i barely even see them in sniper scope, but when you know their optics are like 4-8 times better than yours, it makes at least some sense.
- I doubt a whole subsection would be needed to be created, because as much as i look, commander's binoculars seem to have same ~X6 increment on every vehicle, and cannot be zoomed, so you can't even make a big meaningfull table called "optics" to be filled like "gunners optics, Default, zoomed", "Commander optics, default, zoom". But i feel like adding lil table with optics of gunner to "main armament' subsection would be great. Here is an example: ("which ones" is there just in case Multi-turreted tanks have different zoom levels on different guns, though i failed to find one such example yet.)
|Which ones||Default||Maximum (zoomed in)|
|Main Gun optics||X4.3||X12|
- Even if that is too much, we have this default table explaining the guidance and stabilizer on the gun, and its fire rate (though without mentioning of autoloader, which also impacts things sometimes, like sudden knockout of loader not stopping/resetting the reload). And there are 2 empty slots after reload speed, which i always use in SPAA pages to say "rearm time", as those take forever and are on separate timers. We could appropriate those 2 slots to be like optics-> minimal zoom, maximal zoom instead? But problem is, table looks like it's supposed to be linked to gun page, not vehicle itself, or something. --U42773747 (talk) 20:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I like the looks of that table, something like that could be doable. Might be something to find a static marker/target in the trial yard and snap a screenshot of the target through the scope at each of its different settings and have those on the page for people to visually compare to, they don't have to be huge images, people can click on them (or it can be a composite of the images so one image has all magnifications side by side, that might be useful too. Might be good to have Inceptor57 weigh in on this, he is more of a tank guy than I am. AN_TRN_26 (talk) 20:50, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- So, you want to add like a line into instructions, for people to compare or something like that? In a way of "If you can, check magnification of gunner's scope at This page and apply screenshots that match minimal and maximum zoom of this vehicle's optics here."? I feel like composite image might be hard to use, especially with wiki engine here. It will probably be better to have a lot of images you can scroll with those arrows. Like, make a page called "optics magnifications" and make a gallery of them, being commented like "X2" or "X4" "X8", "X8.8" (damn french RC car!), "X10", "X10,3" (damn leopard!) and such. For those vehicles, that have specified zoom, I could use enemy tank from test drive in AB mode, to use as a mark. Problem is, though, the vehicles may be different all the time for different factions/ranks. With AB rangefinder i always can make sure enemy stands at exactly 1km range, but ofcourse having only one same target for this would be better, to not get confused with different target sizes, but mine resources are kind of limited to what brits (and maybe japs) have, and the premium german test drives. Having a tree or building as a mark instead might be kind of... Counterintuitive? I have one ruined tank hull in mind (even with a tree in a way to have some comparsion) and can make sure it's 1km away via AB rangefinder, but for other people to drive that far and double check it, that would take forever. Anyhow, should i write to Inceptor57 about it directly or they might notice our discussion at their own time? --U42773747 (talk) 21:33, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I think it is possible to data-mine the tank optics zoom. In a tank BLK file if you divide 74 by the "zoomOutFov" or "zoomInFov" field that gives you the default and zoomed in magnification (it has a load of decimal points after it but when you round it to 1 d.p it is nearly always accurate, sometimes you will be out by 0.1 x though). Not sure the significance of 74, presumably it is the FoV of a 1x zoom or something. I worked this out by taking the standard zoom of the Challenger 2 (stated as x 4 in game), then multiplying it by the "zoomOutFov" field in the challenger 2 blk file to get 74. If I then pick other tanks in game which have a zoom specified and divide 74 by the "zoomOutFov" & "zoomInFoV" fields in their files the number you get nearly always rounds to what the zoom level was stated at in game. --Flame2512 (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
- That's very useful. You mean the .BLK similiar to those that appear, when you access "skin customization"? I'm afraid i'd have to own the vehicle to get these still. Or am i mistaken and i can make them out of other files? Kind of curious what kind of optics Type 90 has. --U42773747 (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
- The type of BLK you get by data-mining (extracting the game files). Its the way flaps limits, optimal velocities, compressor settings and stuff like that are found out for aircraft pages.