Difference between revisions of "M8 HMC (China)"

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{{Specs-Card|code=cn_m8_scott}}
 
 
{{About
 
{{About
 
| about = SPG '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
 
| about = SPG '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
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|other
+
| other
−
|usage-1 = other uses
+
| usage-1 = other vehicles of the family
−
|link-1 = M8 (Disambiguation)
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| link-1 = M8 General Scott (Family)
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|usage-2 = other vehicles of the family
+
| usage-2 = other uses
−
|link-2 = M8 General Scott (Family)
+
| link-2 = M8 (Disambiguation)
 
}}
 
}}
 +
{{Specs-Card
 +
|code=cn_m8_scott
 +
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
 +
}}
 +
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
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[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
+
The '''75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 (M8 HMC)''' is a self-propelled howitzer vehicle used by the U.S. Army during World War II. It was built on the chassis of the Light Tank M5 and was armed with an M116 howitzer (later changed to M2 howitzer; also known as the M101 howitzer) mounted on an M7 mount. During World War II, the [[M8 Scott|M8 HMC]] was transported to China as part of the lend-lease program, where it functioned as a fire support vehicle for the Chinese Nationalist Army. However, since the Japanese conquered most of the coastal areas and ports later in World War II, the M8 HMC were transported to China in relatively small numbers as the allies had difficulty finding an appropriate landing spot for bringing in equipment while avoiding Japanese capture at the same time. The only occasion the M8 HMC may have seen limited combat was during the Huai Hai campaign of the Chinese Civil War, when both sides deployed tanks.
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{{break}}
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The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Chinese tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]].
+
Introduced in [[Update 1.91 "Night Vision"]], the M8 HMC provides yet another unique experience for players in the early ranks of Chinese Army ground forces. Since the primary 75 mm howitzer fires low-velocity projectiles, long-range engagement is undesirable. However, given the low velocity of the shells, it is possible to engage opponents who are not in the line of sight, such as by moving behind low obstacles and firing shells in a short arc to target enemies behind the cover. The turret roof was outfitted with an M2HB Browning heavy machine gun, which is capable of engaging enemy lightly armored vehicles and early planes.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
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<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''
+
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}
 +
<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' -->
 +
'''Armour type:'''
  
−
''If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
+
* Rolled homogeneous armour
−
'''Armour type:'''
 
−
* Rolled homogeneous armour  
 
 
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)
 
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)
 +
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
|-
Line 32: Line 37:
 
|}
 
|}
 
'''Notes:'''
 
'''Notes:'''
 +
 
* Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
 
* Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
 
* Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
 
* Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
Line 37: Line 43:
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}
 
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
 
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
  
−
{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 420|rbMinHp= 262}}
+
{{tankMobility|abMinHp=420|rbMinHp=262}}
 +
 
 +
=== Modifications and economy ===
 +
{{Specs-Economy}}
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
 
=== Main armament ===
 
=== Main armament ===
−
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}
−
{{main|Howitzer M2 (75 mm)}}
+
<!-- ''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.'' -->
 +
{{main|M2 Howitzer (75 mm)}}
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="6" | [[Howitzer_M2_(75_mm)|75 mm M2 Howitzer]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="4" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="4" | 46 || -20°/+40° || ±180°
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Mode
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Stock
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
−
|-
 
−
| ''Arcade'' || 5.28 || 7.31 || __.__ || __.__ || 10.45
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Realistic'' || 3.57 || 4.20 || 5.10 || 5.64 || 6.00
+
! colspan="5" | [[M2 Howitzer (75 mm)|75 mm M2 Howitzer]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
+
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
 +
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 +
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Stock
+
! ''Arcade''
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
+
| rowspan="2" | 46 || rowspan="2" | -20°/+40° || rowspan="2" | ±180° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.28 || 7.31 || 8.88 || 9.82 || 10.45 || rowspan="2" | 4.29 || rowspan="2" | 3.80 || rowspan="2" | 3.50 || rowspan="2" | 3.30
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| 4.29 || 3.80 || 3.50 || 3.30
+
! ''Realistic''
 +
| 3.57 || 4.20 || 5.10 || 5.64 || 6.00
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
===== Ammunition =====
+
==== Ammunition ====
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+
{{:M2 Howitzer (75 mm)/Ammunition|M48 shell, M66, M64}}
−
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
 
−
|-
 
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
−
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
−
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 0° Angle of Attack'''
 
−
|-
 
−
! 10m
 
−
! 100m
 
−
! 500m
 
−
! 1000m
 
−
! 1500m
 
−
! 2000m
 
−
|-
 
−
| M48 shell || HE || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10
 
−
|-
 
−
| M66 || HEAT || 89 || 89 || 89 || 89 || 89 || 89
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
−
! colspan="10" | Shell details
 
−
|-
 
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse delay''
 
−
''in m:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse sensitivity''
 
−
''in mm:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Explosive Mass in g<br /> (TNT equivalent):''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Normalization At 30° <br> from horizontal:''
 
−
! colspan="3" | ''Ricochet:''
 
−
|-
 
−
! 0%
 
−
! 50%
 
−
! 100%
 
−
|-
 
−
| M48 shell || 381 || 6.3 || 0.4 || 0.5 || 666 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
−
|-
 
−
| M66 || 304 || 6.0 || 0.0 || 0.1 || 548.13 || +0° || 62° || 69° || 73°
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
−
! colspan="7" | Smoke characteristic
 
−
|-
 
−
! Ammunition
 
−
! Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
−
! Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
−
! ''Screen radius <br /> in m''
 
−
! ''Screen time <br /> in s''
 
−
! ''Screen hold time <br /> in s:''
 
−
! ''Explosive Mass in g<br /> (TNT equivalent):''
 
−
|-
 
−
| M64 || 381 || 6.9 || 13 || 5 || 20 || 50
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
  
−
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
+
==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
−
[[File:Ammoracks_M8 Scott.png|right|x250px|thumbnail|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the M8 Scott.]]
+
[[File:Ammoracks_M8_Scott.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
+
<!-- '''Last updated:''' -->
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Full<br /> ammo
+
! Full<br>ammo
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |1st<br /> rack empty
+
! 1st<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |2nd<br /> rack empty
+
! 2nd<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br /> rack empty
+
! 3rd<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br /> rack empty
+
! 4th<br>rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
+
! Visual<br>discrepancy
 
|-
 
|-
−
|| '''46''' || 35&nbsp;''(+11)'' || 23&nbsp;''(+23)'' || 12&nbsp;''(+34)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+45)'' || style="text-align:left" | No  
+
| '''46''' || 35&nbsp;''(+11)'' || 23&nbsp;''(+23)'' || 12&nbsp;''(+34)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+45)'' || No
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
=== Machine guns ===
 
=== Machine guns ===
−
<!--''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft, but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|2}}
 +
<!-- ''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.'' -->
 
{{main|M2HB (12.7 mm)}}
 
{{main|M2HB (12.7 mm)}}
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="7" | [[M2HB (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm M2HB]]
+
! colspan="5" | [[M2HB (12.7 mm)|12.7 mm M2HB]]
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="7" | ''Pintle mount''
+
! Mount !! Capacity (Belt) !! Fire rate !! Vertical !! Horizontal
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="4" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity (Belt capacity)
+
| Pintle || 400 (200) || 576 || -5°/+70° || ±180°
−
! rowspan="1" | Fire rate <br> (shots/minute)
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="4" | 400 (200) || 576 || -5°/+70° || ±180°
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
−
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
 +
 
 +
In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up [[M5A1 (China)|M5A1]]. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Once the capture point is held, find a good hull-down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.
 +
 
 +
When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, tank destroyers and trucks, the 75 mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75 mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it.
  
−
In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. The massive increase in gun caliber and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously have difficulty destroying are now more easily dealt with. Like the M3/M5 Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. Push for the cap and then take it without hesitation. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. Get behind their turret and go for a shot to the turret rear. Once the capture point is held, find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.
+
Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armoured. Keep in mind that some tanks like the [[Pz.III M]], [[Pz.III N (Italy)|Pz.III N]], and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armour. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it.
  
−
Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. Hence a good hull down position on their flank can provide a good position to hit their side armour, with almost certain destruction coming from it.
+
Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2]] and its line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.
  
−
Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2|Panzer IV F2]] and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the vehicle to encounter. Aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range, leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.
+
If you finds itself under attack from the air, find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - they have a substitution in the form of softer "inadequate", "effective".''-->
+
<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
 +
 
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
−
* 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is very good at dealing with AA vehicles and soft targets.
+
 
−
* 75 mm HEAT round can handle most contemporary adversaries.
+
* Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to penetrate tough adversaries like the [[B1 bis]] and [[Matilda III]]
−
* Fast reloads for the caliber.
+
* 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the [[Ha-Go]] or the [[He 51 C-1]]
−
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills.
+
* Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
−
* Speed and mobility akin of the [[M5A1|Stuart]] light tanks.
+
* When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm
 +
* Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
 +
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
 +
* Speed and mobility of the [[M5 Stuart (Family)|M5 Stuart]] light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease
 +
 
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
−
* Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire.
+
 
−
* Thin armour.
+
* Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized
−
* Shells have low muzzle velocity, not good for long-range fighting.
+
* Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements
−
* Very slow turret traverse rate.
+
* Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
−
* Bad steering at high speeds.
+
* Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the [[SU-76M]]
 +
* Shells have low muzzle velocity, making shooting at long-range or moving targets difficult
 +
* Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
 +
[[File:ROCA M8 Scott Display in Chengkungling.jpg|thumb|250x250px|An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.]]
 +
The Republic of China's M8'' Scott ''Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 ''Priest'' self-propelled guns and [[M4 Sherman (Family)|M4 Sherman]] medium tanks.
 +
 
 +
In 1948, the Chinese Civil War battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.
 +
 
 +
The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the M8 Scotts took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises.
 +
 
 +
There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
−
''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''
+
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
 +
 
 +
;Skins
 +
 
 +
* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=cn_m8_scott Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
 +
 
 +
;Videos
 +
{{Youtube-gallery|4_cJ1CpEatw|'''Best gun depression''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 3:43 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
−
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
+
<!-- ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 +
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 +
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' -->
  
−
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
+
'''US similar versions'''
−
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
+
 
 +
* [[M8 Scott]]
 +
* [[M8A1]]
  
 
== External links ==
 
== External links ==
−
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
+
<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 +
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 +
* ''other literature.'' -->
  
−
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
+
* ''"Tanke Mao," Ching-shih Ch'iang-chia, and T'ien Li-jen:'' ''"The Evolution of the Republic of China Army Armored Artillery.''" ''Illustrated Guide of Weapons & Tactics'' [兵器戰術圖解], v20 May 2005, p78-82.
−
* ''encyclopedia page on the tank;''
+
* ''The Developmental History of the Nationalist Armored Force'' [國軍裝甲兵發展史] by Said Mohamed 孫建中; Sun Chien-chung, 2005
−
* ''other literature.''
+
 
 +
* [https://ttt0920.pixnet.net/blog/post/99710457 ROC's M8 pictures]
 +
* [https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=186119 English forum discussion related to the ROC's M8 combat use]
 +
* [https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=199720 English forum discussion related to the arrival of the M8 to Taiwan]
  
 +
{{TankManufacturer Ordnance Department}}
 
{{China tank destroyers}}
 
{{China tank destroyers}}

Latest revision as of 23:54, 31 May 2024

Rank VII | Premium | Golden Eagles
Challenger DS Pack
This page is about the SPG M8 HMC (China). For other vehicles of the family, see M8 General Scott (Family). For other uses, see M8 (Disambiguation).
␗M8 HMC
us_m8_scott.png
GarageImage M8 HMC (China).jpg
ArtImage M8 HMC (China).png
␗M8 HMC
China flag.png China
I Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
1.3 1.3 1.3
Class:
Research:2 900 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:700 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

The 75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 (M8 HMC) is a self-propelled howitzer vehicle used by the U.S. Army during World War II. It was built on the chassis of the Light Tank M5 and was armed with an M116 howitzer (later changed to M2 howitzer; also known as the M101 howitzer) mounted on an M7 mount. During World War II, the M8 HMC was transported to China as part of the lend-lease program, where it functioned as a fire support vehicle for the Chinese Nationalist Army. However, since the Japanese conquered most of the coastal areas and ports later in World War II, the M8 HMC were transported to China in relatively small numbers as the allies had difficulty finding an appropriate landing spot for bringing in equipment while avoiding Japanese capture at the same time. The only occasion the M8 HMC may have seen limited combat was during the Huai Hai campaign of the Chinese Civil War, when both sides deployed tanks.

Introduced in Update 1.91 "Night Vision", the M8 HMC provides yet another unique experience for players in the early ranks of Chinese Army ground forces. Since the primary 75 mm howitzer fires low-velocity projectiles, long-range engagement is undesirable. However, given the low velocity of the shells, it is possible to engage opponents who are not in the line of sight, such as by moving behind low obstacles and firing shells in a short arc to target enemies behind the cover. The turret roof was outfitted with an M2HB Browning heavy machine gun, which is capable of engaging enemy lightly armored vehicles and early planes.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull28 / 28 / 25
Turret38 / 25 / 25
Crew4 people
Visibility79 %

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)
Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 28.5 mm (48-49°) Front Glacis
38.1 mm (15-30°) Lower glacis 		28.5 mm Front
25.4 mm Rear 		25.4 mm (1-47°) Top
25.4 mm (1-20°) Bottom 		12.7 mm
Turret 38.1 mm (6-40°) Turret front
38.1 mm (1-65°) Gun mantlet 		25.4 mm (18-20°) 25.4 mm (1°) N/A

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
  • Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
  • Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB70 / 19 km/h
RB and SB64 / 17 km/h
Number of gears8 forward
2 back
Weight15.6 t
Engine power
AB565 hp
RB and SB296 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB36.2 hp/t
RB and SB19.0 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 70 19 15.6 420 565 26.92 36.22
Realistic 64 17 262 296 16.79 18.97

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB93 → 115 Sl icon.png
RB107 → 132 Sl icon.png
SB126 → 155 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications2 970 Rp icon.png
890 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost190 Ge icon.png
Crew training200 Sl icon.png
Experts1 000 Sl icon.png
Aces20 Ge icon.png
Research Aces96 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
10 / 20 / 20 % Sl icon.png
100 / 100 / 100 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement cn.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
75mm_us_M89_Smoke_ammo_pack
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

75 mm M2 howitzer
Ammunition46 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
4.3 → 3.3 s
Vertical guidance-20° / 40°
Main article: M2 Howitzer (75 mm)
75 mm M2 Howitzer Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 46 -20°/+40° ±180° N/A 5.28 7.31 8.88 9.82 10.45 4.29 3.80 3.50 3.30
Realistic 3.57 4.20 5.10 5.64 6.00

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
M48 shell HE 10 10 10 10 10 10
M66 HEAT 89 89 89 89 89 89
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Fuse delay
(m) 		Fuse sensitivity
(mm) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (g) 		Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
M48 shell HE 381 6.3 0 0.1 666 79° 80° 81°
M66 HEAT 304 6.02 0.05 0.1 548.13 62° 69° 73°
Smoke shell characteristics
Ammunition Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Screen radius
(m) 		Screen deploy
time (s) 		Screen hold
time (s) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (g)
M64 381 6.9 13 5 20 50

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the M8 HMC (China)
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		Visual
discrepancy
46 35 (+11) 23 (+23) 12 (+34) 1 (+45) No

Machine guns

12.7 mm M2HB machine gun
Ammunition400 rounds
Belt capacity200 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
10.4 → 8.0 s
Fire rate575 shots/min
Vertical guidance-5° / 70°
Main article: M2HB (12.7 mm)
12.7 mm M2HB
Mount Capacity (Belt) Fire rate Vertical Horizontal
Pintle 400 (200) 576 -5°/+70° ±180°

Usage in battles

In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Once the capture point is held, find a good hull-down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.

When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, tank destroyers and trucks, the 75 mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75 mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it.

Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armoured. Keep in mind that some tanks like the Pz.III M, Pz.III N, and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armour. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it.

Tanks like the Pz.IV F2 and its line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.

If you finds itself under attack from the air, find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to penetrate tough adversaries like the B1 bis and Matilda III
  • 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the Ha-Go or the He 51 C-1
  • Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
  • When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the Pz.IIs' 20 mm
  • Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
  • Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
  • Speed and mobility of the M5 Stuart light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease

Cons:

  • Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized
  • Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements
  • Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
  • Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the SU-76M
  • Shells have low muzzle velocity, making shooting at long-range or moving targets difficult
  • Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily

History

An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.

The Republic of China's M8 Scott Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 Priest self-propelled guns and M4 Sherman medium tanks.

In 1948, the Chinese Civil War battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.

The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the M8 Scotts took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises.

There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan.

Media

Skins
Videos
Best gun depression discusses the M8 HMC (China) at 3:43 - War Thunder Official Channel

See also

US similar versions

External links

  • "Tanke Mao," Ching-shih Ch'iang-chia, and T'ien Li-jen: "The Evolution of the Republic of China Army Armored Artillery." Illustrated Guide of Weapons & Tactics [兵器戰術圖解], v20 May 2005, p78-82.
  • The Developmental History of the Nationalist Armored Force [國軍裝甲兵發展史] by Said Mohamed 孫建中; Sun Chien-chung, 2005


U.S. Army Ordnance Department/Corps*
Light tanks  T18E2 · M24 (Designed in collaboration with Cadillac)
M3 Stuart  M3 · M3A1 Stuart · M3A1 (USMC)
M5 Stuart  M5A1
Medium tanks  M3 Lee
M4 Sherman  M4 · M4A1 · M4A2 · M4A3 (105) · Calliope
  M4A1 (76) W · M4A2 (76) W · M4A3 (76) W
M26 Pershing  T20 · T25 · M26 · M26E1 · M26 T99
Patton Series  M46 · M46 "Tiger" · M47
Prototypes  T54E1 · T95E1
Heavy tanks  M103
M4 Jumbo  M4A3E2 · Cobra King · M4A3E2 (76) W
M6 Heavy  M6A1 · M6A2E1 · T1E1
M26 Pershing  T26E1-1 · T26E5
Prototypes  T14
T29  T29 · T30 · T34
T-32  T32 · T32E1
Tank destroyers  M3 GMC · M10 GMC · M56
M8 GMC  M8 HMC · M8A1 GMC
M36 GMC  M36 GMC · M36B2
Prototypes  T28 · T95
SPAAGs 
Production  M19 MGMC · M42
Export/Captured  ␗M8 HMC · SU-57
Stuart  Stuart I · Stuart III · ␗M3A3 Stuart · ␗M3A3 (1st PTG) · ▄M3A3 · ▄M3A3 Stuart · ▃Stuart VI (5th CAD) · ␗M5A1
Lee/Grant  ▂M3 Medium · ▃Grant I · Grant I
M4 Sherman  Sherman II · ▄M4A1 · ␗M4A1 (75) W · ▀M4 748 (a) · ▂M4A2 · ▄M4A3 (105) · ▅M4A3 (76) W · ▄M4A3E2
  ␗M4A4 · ␗M4A4 (1st PTG) · ▄Sherman V · ▄M4A4 · ▄Sherman I Composito
M26 Pershing  M26 "D.C.Ariete" · M26A1
M47 Patton  mKPz M47 G · ▅M47
M10 GMC  ␗M10 GMC · ▄M10 GMC
M36 GMC  ␗M36 GMC · M36B1 · ▅M36 · ▄M36B2
M19 MGMC  ▅M19A1
M42 MGMC  ▅M42 · ␗M42
  *The Ordnance Department was renamed to the Ordnance Corps after the Army Reorganization Act of 1950.

China tank destroyers
PLA 
Gun vehicles  PLZ83 · PLZ83-130 · PTZ89
Missile vehicles  AFT09
ROC 
Missile vehicles  CM25
USA 
Gun vehicles  ␗M8 HMC · LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) · ␗M10 GMC · ␗M36 GMC
Missile vehicles  ␗M113A1 (TOW)
USSR 
Gun vehicles  ␗SU-76M · ␗ISU-152 · ␗ISU-122 · ␗SU-100

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