F-104G (Germany)

This page is about the German jet fighter F-104G (Germany). For other versions, see F-104 (Family).

◄F-104G

◄F-86K

◄F-4F

◄F-104G

◄F-86K

◄F-4F

Germany

VII Rank

Battle rating:

AB	RB	SB
10.7	11.0	10.7

Class:

Fighter

Jet fighter

Research:260 000

Purchase:710 000

Show in game

Description

The F-104G was the most common variants of the Starfighter family, with over 1,000 built by various companies like Lockheed, Fokker, Fiat, etc. Germany was also one of the biggest users of the Starfighter with over 900 purchased. However, Germany struggled with the F-104 and would later earn the nickname Witwenmacher ("Widowmaker") from the German public due to its high accident rate. Over 250 planes were lost in accidents and 100+ Luftwaffe pilots died as a result. Fortunately, as Germany addressed the problems with the F-104 program the accident rate decreased to a rate similar to other countries operating the Starfighter.

Introduced in Update "Starfighters", the F-104G is extremely fast and will be able to outrun many of its contemporaries. However, it severely lacks in manoeuvrability. With the addition of bombs and missiles, the F-104G can be used as a ground attacker mainly due to the CCIP for the cannon, rockets, and bombs. As a fighter, the F-104G will be potent as it has 4 x AIM-9Js, a 20 mm M61A1 Vulcan cannon with 750 rounds, and countermeasures which are incredibly important at its battle rating. Players should be careful when using the cannon as it only has 7.5 seconds of trigger time. The F-104G will be unable to dogfight many fighters at its BR, so players should stick to staying fast and making passes on enemy planes.

General info

Flight performance

Arrestor gear

Accelerates braking by grabbing the brake cable on the deck of the aircraft carrier

Air brakes

Allows you to dramatically reduce the flight speed by releasing special flaps

Drogue parachute

Reduces braking distance when landing on any runway

Max speed

at 15 240 m2 387 km/h

Turn time34 s

Max altitude16 000 m

EngineGeneral Electric J79-MTU-J1K

Type

Cooling systemAir

Take-off weight24 t

The F-104G has great speed, acceleration, and climb rate due to its streamlined aerodynamics and powerful engine, the General Electric J79-GE-11; which gives thrust of up to 4,130 kgf without and 8,391 kgf with afterburner. This is achieved at the cost of low-speed handling and turning capabilities. It only turns acceptably at transsonic or supersonic speeds (around 1,000 km/h), anything below that being far below average for a jet fighter. Even then, do not try to turnfight with anything other than fellow Starfighters; even a F-4E will outturn you. The stubby wings with a low aspect ratio also contribute to poor manoeuvring energy retention, so extended turning will bleed energy quickly. The roll rate is good, which helps in defensive manoeuvres.

Characteristics	Max Speed (km/h at 15,240 m)		Max altitude (metres)	Turn time (seconds)		Rate of climb (metres/second)		Take-off run (metres)
	AB	RB		AB	RB	AB	RB
Stock	2,341	2,315	16000	34.5	35.1	230.3	222.2	850
Upgraded	2,433	2,387		33.5	34.0	292.1	260.0

Details

Features
Combat flaps	Take-off flaps	Landing flaps	Air brakes	Arrestor gear	Drogue chute
X	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓

Limits
Wings (km/h)	Gear (km/h)	Flaps (km/h)			Max Static G
		Combat	Take-off	Landing	+	-
1,555	546	N/A	827	444	~12	~5

Optimal velocities (km/h)
Ailerons	Rudder	Elevators	Radiator
< 720	< 950	< 800	N/A

Engine performance

Engine			Aircraft mass
Engine name		Number	Basic mass		Wing loading (full fuel)
General Electric J79-GE-11		1	6,552 kg		532 kg/m2
Engine characteristics			Mass with fuel (no weapons load)				Max Takeoff Weight
Weight (each)	Type		10m fuel	20m fuel	30m fuel	35m fuel
1,615 kg	Afterburning axial-flow turbojet		7,345 kg	8,057 kg	8,809 kg	9,194 kg	24,000 kg
Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB)			Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
Condition	100%	WEP	10m fuel	20m fuel	30m fuel	35m fuel	MTOW
Stationary	4,128 kgf	6,357 kgf	0.87	0.79	0.72	0.69	0.26
Optimal	4,128 kgf (0 km/h)	8,391 kgf (1,200 km/h)	1.14	1.04	0.95	0.91	0.35

Survivability and armour

Flares/Chaff

Aircraft countermeasures to distract IR and radar-guided missiles and also AA radar

Crew1 person

Speed of destruction

Structural0 km/h

Gear546 km/h

The F-104G has no armour; be it in the form of armour plates or armoured glass. Fuel tanks are self-sealing, which is pretty much a standard feature at this rank. The F-104G also has access to countermeasures as a tier I modification (unlike Chinese F-104G) and Radar Warning Receiver as a tier IV modification.

While selecting which combination of countermeasures to use, the pilot should consider which missiles opponents are likely to use.

In Air RB, most missiles at this rank are IR tracking, which can be countered by flares. Less common types of missiles are semi-active radar homing, SARH (like AIM-7E); those are countered by chaff. Radar-guided missiles are usually used from longer distances, but they can easily lose tracking or be outmanoeuvred, even in the F-104; while IR missiles are launched from closer range and can pull more Gs, so flares are more desirable.

In Ground RB, there are fewer IR guided missiles, mainly carried by some helicopters and select SPAA such as the Type 93. The biggest threat in Ground RB comes in the form of radar-equipped SPAAs, be it armed with cannons, missiles, or both. Most enemies rely on their tracking radar in order to get lead for their guns and to comfortably track your plane with missiles. Chaff confuses tracking radar, thus increasing probability of a miss, so focusing on chaff is more useful.

Final note, if you fly with the afterburner while launching flares, missiles are going to ignore them and go straight for you.

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference

AB3 077 → 4 157

RB8 997 → 12 154

SB9 243 → 12 487

Total cost of modifications224 000

356 000

Talisman cost2 800

Crew training200 000

Experts710 000

Aces2 800

Research Aces1 080 000

Reward for battleAB / RB / SB

120 / 310 / 600 %

232 / 232 / 232 %

Modifications

Flight performance	Survivability	Weaponry
Compressor Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 New boosters Research: 10 000 Cost: 16 000 450 Wings repair Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 Engine Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550	Fuselage repair Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 Airframe Research: 10 000 Cost: 16 000 450 G-suit Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 Cover Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550	M60_belt_pack Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 BLU-1 Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 Type 25C Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 Flares/Chaff Research: 7 600 Cost: 12 000 350 LAU-32 Research: 10 000 Cost: 16 000 450 Mk82 Research: 10 000 Cost: 16 000 450 AIM-9B Research: 10 000 Cost: 16 000 450 M60_new_gun Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 Nord AS.20 Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 M117 Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 AIM-9B FGW.2 Research: 9 400 Cost: 15 000 430 AS30 Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550 Mk83 Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550 Mk84 Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550 AIM-9J Research: 12 000 Cost: 19 000 550

The F-104G's engine performance is sufficient when stock, so one should go for countermeasures first. Most enemies engage with IR missiles and the F-104G simply does not have enough manoeuvrability to outturn modern ones like R-60 and AIM-9J Sidewinder. If playing in ground battles, work on unlocking the AIM-9J modification as soon as possible, as this will allow them to be carried in addition to ground ordnance. This means that the two AIM-9B modifications should be prioritised, as well as ordnance modifications to unlock the next modification tiers. Otherwise, the 2 x AIM-9E loadout is provided stock, so none of the modifications are truly vital beyond countermeasures.

Armaments

Ballistic Computer
CCIP (Guns)	CCIP (Rockets)	CCIP (Bombs)	CCRP (Bombs)

Offensive armament

The F-104G (Germany) is armed with:

• A choice between two presets:
  • 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon, nose-mounted (750 rpg)
  • 1 x 20 mm M61A1 cannon + 60 x countermeasures

The M61A1 is an excellent cannon at its rank, only disadvantages being the spool up time and limited ammo count relative to rate of fire.

Armed with anti-air belts for Air RB, even a short burst is fatal to any enemy aircraft, provided the burst connects.

The cannon excels even in Ground RB armed with armour-piercing belts, giving it 53 mm of penetration, which is enough to get through most SPAAs' and light tanks' armour and can even pierce the engine deck of T-90A (at 1,000 m/73°).

Last thing to note is that trigger discipline is a must.

Suspended armament

The F-104G (Germany) can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
250 kg Matra 25E bombs		1		1*		1
500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs		1		1*		1
500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs		1		1*		1
750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs		1		1*		1
1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs		1		1*		1
BLU-1 incendiary bombs		1		1*		1
Hydra-70 M247 rockets		7				7
AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles	1		1*		1*		1
AIM-9B FGW.2 Sidewinder missiles	1		1*		1*		1
AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles	1						1
AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles	1		1*		1*		1
AS-20 Nord missiles		1				1
AS-30 Nord missiles		1				1
Maximum permissible weight imbalance: 500 kg
* Ordnance on hardpoint 4 cannot by carried in conjunction with missiles on hardpoints 3/5

Default weapon presets

Without load 2 x AIM-9E Sidewinder missiles 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles 4 x AIM-9B FGW.2 Sidewinder missiles 4 x AIM-9J Sidewinder missiles 14 x Hydra-70 M247 rockets 2 x AS-20 Nord missiles 2 x AS-30 Nord missiles 3 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (1,500 lb total) 3 x 500 lb Mk 82 Snakeye bombs (1,500 lb total) 3 x 750 lb M117 cone 45 bombs (2,250 lb total) 3 x 1,000 lb LDGP Mk 83 bombs (3,000 lb total) 3 x 250 kg Matra 25E bombs (750 kg total) 3 x BLU-1 incendiary bombs

For Air RB, F-104G is quite limited in its options of armaments. With only two air-to-air missiles, they should not be wasted in turnfights, against agile planes, or planes that have a lot of energy. Instead, focus on enemy planes going after your teammates or planes in low energy state. Planes that lock up at higher speeds are also viable targets. The closer you get behind the enemy plane before launching, the higher your chances of hitting them are.

For Ground RB, F-104G has access to a wide arsenal of weapons.

Popular AS-20 Nords are practically flat trajectory 30 kg bombs that can be guided to target in MCLOS style. Their explosive payload leaves something to be desired, so the player needs to be really precise with their aiming. Also, F-104G gets only two of them. On the other hand, they have a launch range of 8 km.

Another option are M247 Hydra 70 rockets. While offering 290 mm of penetration, they only contain 0.9 kg of explosives and plane gets 14 x of them. Direct hits are must in order to achieve kill, and even with the help of ballistic computer, they are quite impractical at speeds in which F-104G usually operates.

With the ballistic computer, bombs become much more viable option. Turning on the ballistic computer allows the player to use arcade style crosshairs, so any pilot is capable of hitting ground targets with laser-like accuracy. F-104G is capable of carrying 3 x bombs (1 x mounted under fuselage and 2 x on wing pylons) and these are dropped individually, allowing the player in theory to achieve at least 3 kills per payload. All bombs carried by F-104G are viable, so it is up to personal preference.

Usage in battles

The F-104G should not be used in turn fighting engagements as its small wingspan and wing area does not allow the Starfighter to outturn or retain enough energy to fight any other aircraft. Instead, the Starfighter should use its high speed and engine performance to outrun most opponents. When at top speeds, the Starfighter is able to outrun short-range AAMs launched from 2.4 km at sea level and 3.5 km at higher altitudes. Flares are also available to the Starfighter which proves to be incredibly useful to pre-flare or to dodge missiles which your aircraft wouldn't normally be able to dodge without flares.

Aggressive flanking and forcing enemies to turn and dump their energy is the playstyle which all Starfighter's should be flown and the more powerful engine of the F-104G variants compared to the As and Cs allow this playstyle to be played more successfully, though you cannot outrun some fighters such as the MiG-21bis (though your wing rip speed is much higher) and the F-104S (having a much more powerful engine though also much heavier).

Do not bother with climbing in an uptier: your already bad manoeuvrability gets worse the higher you get, and without RWR and Chaff you are nothing more than target practice for F-4Es with SARH missiles. Instead, start side climbing to 2 to 3 km, then flank already engaged targets. Your speed allows you to close distance quickly and your missiles are good enough to engage distracted enemies flying in a straight line or in low energy state. Then, escape using your superior speed. Rearm, rinse and repeat.

If you get downtiered, there are few enemies that can match your speed and climb rate. Stick to boom-and-zoom tactics, watch out for other Starfighters, Harriers, Yak-38 and Hunters and use your flares to evade their missiles. Since few planes (or any at all) around BR 9.0 have RWR or flares, they should be easy prey for your Sidewinders.

Radars

The F-104G is equipped with an NASARR search and tracking radar. The radar is mounted in the nose of the aircraft.

NASARR - Target Detection Radar
Maximum Detection Range	Guaranteed Detection Range	Max Azimuth Scan Angle	Max Elevation Scan Angle
37,000 m (theoretical)	18,000 m	±45.0°	±43.0°
NASARR - Target Tracking Radar
Maximum Tracking Range	Minimum Tracking Range	Azimuth Tracking Angle	Elevation Tracking Angle
18,500 m	150 m	±10.0°	±10.0°

Pros and cons

Pros:

• Great top speed and acceleration
• Great rate of climb
• Good roll rate
• Decent high-speed maneuverability
• Powerful M61 Vulcan cannon with a very high fire rate, good damage, excellent velocity, and plenty of ammunition
• Wide selection of secondary ordnance, including air-to-ground AS.20 guided missiles; much better than early F-104s
• Access to four potent AIM-9J sidewinder air-to-air missiles
• Access to 60 chaff/flare countermeasures

Cons:

• Very poor overall maneuverability and terrible low-speed maneuverability
• Bleeds energy quickly in sustained turn fights
• Large turning radius due to small wing surface and high speed
• High takeoff and landing speeds

History

The brainchild of famed Lockheed engineer Clarence "Kelly" Johnson, after having spoken to USAF pilots about their experience in the Korean Air War, the F-104 Starfighter was innovative in both its design and speed. Developed from the start as a daytime air-superiority fighter with speed in mind, the Starfighter began life at Lockheed's famous "Skunk Works" facility in 1952 to combat the Soviet's new age of supersonic jet fighters. The aircraft would incorporate the smallest airframe, combined with the most technologically advanced turbojet at the time, to create the base of what would become the F-104.

In 1953, the USAF showed interest in the project, and proposed an open contest with Lockheed and multiple other firms for a supersonic interceptor, based wholly on performance. Lockheed evidently won the contest and approval for two prototypes to be produced and, in February of 1954, took flight for the first time. Although it was slated to be fitted with the General Electric J79 turbofan, due to shortages of the engines the prototypes were mated to a license-built variant of the British Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire engine, called the Wright XJ65-W-6, until the initial powerplant was available. The aircraft however was not without its problems, resulting in a four-year long developmental period for the aircraft. By the end of it, 17 pre-production YF-104As had been built, tested, and used to iron out any problems that would be noticeable on the final F-104. In 1958, the F-104 would finally be available for deliveries featuring some differences from the initial prototypes in the form of a longer fuselage as well as the fitting of General Electric J79GE-3 engines putting out a whopping 14,800 lbs of thrust.

From the start the F-104A smashed records, taking the record as the first operational fighter in service to succeed Mach 2, as well as going on to take the records for both altitude and speed in both the F-104A and F-104C variants respectively. On May 7th, 1958, Maj. Howard C. Johnson, in his F-104A, set a new world altitude record at 91,243 feet, and 11 days later another aircraft set a new speed record at 1,403.19 mph. The altitude record was later bested by another variant of the aircraft, the F-104C, at a whopping altitude of 103,389 feet. In the 1950s, the aircraft had come to be exactly what the public had expected a fighter of this magnitude to look like. With a long, pencil shaped fuselage with short, sharp edged wings it encompassed the era of space flight and Sci-Fi with its design. The wings were one of the most unique parts of the aircraft, as well as its long fuselage taken up mostly by its large engine and fuel storage, and were only 4 inches and its thickest. Sweeping was only utilized on the leading edge, and a slight anhedral was in place to combat "Dutch Roll", a phenomenon where the aircraft rocks side-to-side uncontrollably. The wings, while helping with supersonic flight, were harmful to ground crews, and special equipment had to be issued to service these areas.

While having a history of accidents and high pilot attrition, the aircraft was fitted with an ejection seat. Due to the great speed of the aircraft at Mach 2, it was believed that the seat wouldn't have enough time to clear the tail section in an ejection scenario. Therefore, a downward firing ejection seat known as the Stanley C-1 was fitted into early models of the F-104. While a good idea, and in theory could work, the C-1 was also believed harmful in the case of a low-altitude ejection of the aircraft. After a failed introduction of the Stanley C-2 ejection seat, the problem was finally solved by the introduction of the Martin-Baker ejection system, particularly in foreign-operator's Starfighters. Roughly 153 F-104As were produced, with 26 more being F-104B two-seat variants. The F-104A spend a short time in USAF service before being send to Air National Guard (ANG) units, which some others being sent to foreign operators which had some success in their service. In September of 1958 the USAF would get the F-104C, a dedicated fighter-bomber variant designed for the USAF's Tactical Air Command's 479th Tactical Fighter Squadron. The F-104C featured improvements over the F-104A in the form of a better fire-control system as well as hardpoints on the centerline on the belly and under the wings. The aircraft also introduced the ability to refuel mid-flight via a probe running along the right side of the aircraft, extending the reach of the aircraft somewhat. However, like most of the A models ended up, the C models were quickly transferred to Air National Guard (ANG) units both of which served until around 1975 in their service. The first combat of the F-104 however wouldn't be seen until the Vietnam War, and while not having any kills to count was successful in keeping MiGs back and from intercepting friendly aircraft. The aircraft had a short service life in this theatre, only serving in 1965, and again from 1967-1969 until the introduction of the more-capable F-4 Phantom II by which it was replaced.

The aircraft saw its best success as the F-104G, of which Germany had many. The aircraft has come to be known as the "definitive" variant of the Starfighter. Sporting a reinforced airframe, larger vertical stabilizer, uprated turbofans, and improved electronics, the aircraft was initially built for the German Luftwaffe and first flew in October 1960. The aircraft's licensing was handled by multiple manufacturers, notably Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm (MBB), FIAT, Fokker, and Sociétés Anonyme Belge de Constructions Aéronautiques (SABCA). While in German service the aircraft earned the nickname "Widowmaker" when, between the years 1961 and 1989, 292 aircraft out of 916 had crashed, with 116 pilots being lost.

Media

Skins

• Skins and camouflages for the F-104G (Germany) from live.warthunder.com.

See also

Related development

• F-104 (Family)

External links

• [Military Factory] Lockheed F-104 Starfighter

Lockheed Corporation
Fighters	XP-38G · P-38E · P-38G-1 · P-38J-15 · Bong's P-38J-15 · P-38K · P-38L-5-LO · YP-38
Bombers	B-34 · PV-2D
Jet Fighters	F-80A-5 · F-80C-10
	F-104A · F-104C
Strike Aircraft	F-117
Export / License	A-29 · ▄Hudson Mk V
	␗P-38L-1
	␗F-104A · ▀F-104G · ␗F-104G · ▄F-104G · ▅F-104J · ▄F-104S
	The Lockheed Corporation merged with Martin Marietta Corporation in 1995 to form Lockheed Martin Corporation.
See Also	SABCA · Mitsubishi Heavy Industries · Fiat Aviation