Difference between revisions of "Lim-5P (Germany)"
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== Description == | == Description == | ||
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | ||
| − | The ''' | + | In 1955, Poland bought the license to produce the Soviet [[MiG-17]] (and all its subsequent variants) indigenously. The aircraft received the designation Licencyjny Myśliwiec ''("Licensed Fighter")'' 5, or just Lim-5 for short. One variant in particular appeared in 1956, being a licensed copy of the MiG-17PF equipped with not only an afterburning variant of the VK-1 engine, but also the [[RP-5|RP-5 Izumrud]] radar system in the nose. This variant was named the '''Lim-5P''', and 129 were built in this variant before production of the Lim-5 ceased in 1960 in favour of the upgraded Lim-6. The Polish Lim-5s were exported to many countries due to their cheaper price than the Soviet originals, seeing service with countries in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and the Warsaw Pact. The most interesting user of the Lim-5 was Guinea-Bissau, a very small country on the Western coast of Africa. While there isn't much known about ''how'' the ex-German Lim-5Ps ended up in an African country in the '80s, Guinea-Bissau continued using these Lim-5Ps until 2011. |
| − | The | + | The '''{{Specs|name}}''', introduced in [[Update "Danger Zone"]], is a Polish license-produced copy of the Soviet MiG-17PF exported to East Germany. The aircraft is substantially different from most other [[MiG-17 (Family)|MiG-17s]] in the game, and draws from similarities of multiple MiG aircraft in-game rather than a specific variant. The Lim-5P trades its 37 mm for a extra 23 mm gun, giving it a uniform gun selection of three 23 mm guns, making gun handling on this aircraft far easier than its other MiG-17 siblings which have a 37 mm with different ammo and velocities thrown into the mix. The aircraft also has the VK-1F engine, an afterburning variant of the VK-1 which is also found on the Chinese [[Shenyang F-5]] in-game. Finally, the biggest difference in the Lim-5P is the [[RP-5|RP-5 Izumrud]] radar system similar to that found on the [[MiG-19PT]], which is unique due to having separate search and track antenna arrays, allowing the radar to achieve a early form of "Track While Scan" capability, commonly found on high rank 4th generation fighter jets instead. |
== General info == | == General info == | ||
| Line 14: | Line 14: | ||
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}} | {{Specs-Avia-Flight}} | ||
<!-- ''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.'' --> | <!-- ''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.'' --> | ||
| + | Players who own the Chinese (North Korean) [[Shenyang F-5|F-5]] will soon find themselves at home thanks to the exact same engine configuration- the VK-1F turbojet engine in this case; this sets Lim-5P apart from its Soviet counterparts. The overall handling though is very similar as well as they share the very same MiG-17 airframe aside from lacking the infamous N-37D cannon for higher damage; so most of the same traits shared on MiG-17 series are also a thing on Lim-5P. Be sure not to go too fast (> 900 km/h; the control surfaces lock up beyond this speed and increase the odds of an unwanted crash) and do make sure you finish off the target as fast as possible, bail from the battlefield before anything with better missiles come over; also beware of the below average roll rate, this could be a problem in necessary dogfights but the overall manoeuvrability is still sufficient to finish off damaged jets or jet bombers if needed. | ||
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%" | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%" | ||
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|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
==== Details ==== | ==== Details ==== | ||
| + | [[File:Lim-5P Cockpit (2022).png|thumb|Unlike other MiG-17 variants, the Lim-5P has a unique cockpit with drastically improved visibility, a single artificial horizon reference line on both the collimator and the radar with separate search and track radars.]] | ||
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%" | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%" | ||
|- | |- | ||
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! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! - | ! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! - | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || | + | | 1,150 <!-- {{Specs|destruction|body}} --> || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || - || 598 || 450 || ~12 || ~5 |
|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
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! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator | ! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || | + | | < 600 || < 700 || < 750 || - |
|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
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* 3 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (100 rpg = 300 total) | * 3 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (100 rpg = 300 total) | ||
| − | Different from | + | Different from its cousins in other trees, the Lim-5P replaced the nose-mounted 37 mm N-37D cannon for a third 23 mm NR-23 instead; perhaps there is some weight reduction in this case but it is also a decrease in overall firepower. For players who find the 23 mm cannon sometimes unreliable, they should spend time to practice its ballistics and make sure every shot counts; 100 rounds per gun is not as forgiving as NATO jets. |
== Usage in battles == | == Usage in battles == | ||
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | ||
| − | MiG-17 equivalent for the DDR line fighters is the best description for Lim-5P; it is the Polish licensed version of MiG-17PF and this also marks its identity as a all-weather interceptor with a RP-5 radar. It might not be very reliable due to its electronics, but 8 km detection range at higher altitude does also gives players an edge on spotting enemies beforehand; this is especially true in SB since who spot first really matters in this case (but do make sure the target is indeed an enemy). Another feature of Lim-5P is the VK-1F afterburner turbojet engine, players of [[Shenyang F-5]] will soon find themselves at home as this further boost its capability to chase down enemies with lower energy or altitude with ease, sometimes even handling supersonic jets in dire. | + | MiG-17 equivalent for the DDR line fighters is the best description for Lim-5P; it is the Polish licensed version of MiG-17PF and this also marks its identity as a all-weather interceptor with a RP-5 radar. It might not be very reliable due to its electronics, but 8 km detection range at higher altitude does also gives players an edge on spotting enemies beforehand; this is especially true in SB since who spot first really matters in this case (but do make sure the target is indeed an enemy). Another feature of Lim-5P is the VK-1F afterburner turbojet engine, players of [[Shenyang F-5]] will soon find themselves at home as this further boost its capability to chase down enemies with lower energy or altitude with ease, sometimes even handling supersonic jets in dire. |
| − | However, players will also find the similar flaws from his cousins: control surfaces lock up and subpar roll rate at higher speeds. Be sure to check the speeds before chasing down enemies or players will meet their demise quickly; do beware of jets with missiles when doing dogfights, since the heat from the afterburner is high, turn it off for better odds to dodge the missile. Meanwhile, it has | + | However, players will also find the similar flaws from his cousins: control surfaces lock up and subpar roll rate at higher speeds. Be sure to check the speeds before chasing down enemies or players will meet their demise quickly; do beware of jets with missiles when doing dogfights, since the heat from the afterburner is high, turn it off for better odds to dodge the missile. Meanwhile, it has 3 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons instead of the conventional 2 x 23 mm and a 37 mm N-37D config for lighter weight during interception missions and also higher ammo count; to some players it means more rounds to spare, while some consider it as a big nerf from its cousins since the 23 mm rounds don't fly as straight as their NATO counterparts and some might prefer having a 37 mm for an instant-kill. Trigger discipline is still essential for this jet (300 rounds in total) to make sure the best efficiency can be achieved- it is still an autocannon, after all. |
=== Pros and cons === | === Pros and cons === | ||
| Line 149: | Line 149: | ||
* Compresses at high speeds | * Compresses at high speeds | ||
* 23 mm cannons have subpar velocity | * 23 mm cannons have subpar velocity | ||
| − | * Lacks ground-attack ordnances | + | * Lacks ground-attack ordnances |
== History == | == History == | ||
| Line 157: | Line 157: | ||
The licensing contract was signed in 1955 as the replacement of the earlier Lim-2 (MiG-15), Lim-5P was the all-weather variant of MiG-17PF with revisions on armaments and engine, as well as a RP-5 radar for target acquisition. By the end of 1960, 129 of them were built; some of them were also converted into Lim-6M and -6MR variant as attacker/recon aircraft for Polish Air Force. | The licensing contract was signed in 1955 as the replacement of the earlier Lim-2 (MiG-15), Lim-5P was the all-weather variant of MiG-17PF with revisions on armaments and engine, as well as a RP-5 radar for target acquisition. By the end of 1960, 129 of them were built; some of them were also converted into Lim-6M and -6MR variant as attacker/recon aircraft for Polish Air Force. | ||
| − | The LSK (''Luftstreitkräfte;'' East German Airforce) acquired 40-48 of MiG-17PF/Lim-5P from both USSR and Poland as one of the composition of their jet fighter/attacker fleets. They didn't join any | + | The LSK (''Luftstreitkräfte;'' East German Airforce) acquired 40-48 of MiG-17PF/Lim-5P from both USSR and Poland as one of the composition of their jet fighter/attacker fleets. They didn't join any combat and were phased out by newer jets from USSR between 1970 to 1973, either being scrapped or been transferred to Guinea-Bissau in the 1980s.<ref>https://acesflyinghigh.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/combat-jets-of-the-east-german-air-force-1956-to-1969-the-early-days/</ref> |
== Media == | == Media == | ||
| Line 163: | Line 163: | ||
;Skins | ;Skins | ||
| + | |||
* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17p_lim_5p Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.] | * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=mig-17p_lim_5p Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.] | ||
Latest revision as of 03:40, 23 July 2024
.jpg)
Contents
Description
In 1955, Poland bought the license to produce the Soviet MiG-17 (and all its subsequent variants) indigenously. The aircraft received the designation Licencyjny Myśliwiec ("Licensed Fighter") 5, or just Lim-5 for short. One variant in particular appeared in 1956, being a licensed copy of the MiG-17PF equipped with not only an afterburning variant of the VK-1 engine, but also the RP-5 Izumrud radar system in the nose. This variant was named the Lim-5P, and 129 were built in this variant before production of the Lim-5 ceased in 1960 in favour of the upgraded Lim-6. The Polish Lim-5s were exported to many countries due to their cheaper price than the Soviet originals, seeing service with countries in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and the Warsaw Pact. The most interesting user of the Lim-5 was Guinea-Bissau, a very small country on the Western coast of Africa. While there isn't much known about how the ex-German Lim-5Ps ended up in an African country in the '80s, Guinea-Bissau continued using these Lim-5Ps until 2011.
The ◊Lim-5P, introduced in Update "Danger Zone", is a Polish license-produced copy of the Soviet MiG-17PF exported to East Germany. The aircraft is substantially different from most other MiG-17s in the game, and draws from similarities of multiple MiG aircraft in-game rather than a specific variant. The Lim-5P trades its 37 mm for a extra 23 mm gun, giving it a uniform gun selection of three 23 mm guns, making gun handling on this aircraft far easier than its other MiG-17 siblings which have a 37 mm with different ammo and velocities thrown into the mix. The aircraft also has the VK-1F engine, an afterburning variant of the VK-1 which is also found on the Chinese Shenyang F-5 in-game. Finally, the biggest difference in the Lim-5P is the RP-5 Izumrud radar system similar to that found on the MiG-19PT, which is unique due to having separate search and track antenna arrays, allowing the radar to achieve a early form of "Track While Scan" capability, commonly found on high rank 4th generation fighter jets instead.
General info
Flight performance
Players who own the Chinese (North Korean) F-5 will soon find themselves at home thanks to the exact same engine configuration- the VK-1F turbojet engine in this case; this sets Lim-5P apart from its Soviet counterparts. The overall handling though is very similar as well as they share the very same MiG-17 airframe aside from lacking the infamous N-37D cannon for higher damage; so most of the same traits shared on MiG-17 series are also a thing on Lim-5P. Be sure not to go too fast (> 900 km/h; the control surfaces lock up beyond this speed and increase the odds of an unwanted crash) and do make sure you finish off the target as fast as possible, bail from the battlefield before anything with better missiles come over; also beware of the below average roll rate, this could be a problem in necessary dogfights but the overall manoeuvrability is still sufficient to finish off damaged jets or jet bombers if needed.
| Characteristics | Max Speed (km/h at 2,000 m) |
Max altitude (metres) |
Turn time (seconds) |
Rate of climb (metres/second) |
Take-off run (metres) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| AB | RB | AB | RB | AB | RB | |||
| Stock | 1,101 | 1,094 | 15500 | 21.8 | 23.0 | 39.1 | 36.1 | 475 |
| Upgraded | 1,126 | 1,114 | 21.2 | 21.5 | 61.9 | 50.0 | ||
Details
.png)
| Features | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Combat flaps | Take-off flaps | Landing flaps | Air brakes | Arrestor gear | Drogue chute |
| X | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | X | X |
| Limits | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wings (km/h) | Gear (km/h) | Flaps (km/h) | Max Static G | |||
| Combat | Take-off | Landing | + | - | ||
| 1,150 | 450 | - | 598 | 450 | ~12 | ~5 |
| Optimal velocities (km/h) | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Ailerons | Rudder | Elevators | Radiator |
| < 600 | < 700 | < 750 | - |
Engine performance
| Engine | Aircraft mass | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Engine name | Number | Basic mass | Wing loading (full fuel) | |||
| Klimov VK-1 | 1 | 4,112 kg | 234 kg/m2 | |||
| Engine characteristics | Mass with fuel (no weapons load) | Max Gross Weight | ||||
| Weight (each) | Type | 9m fuel | 20m fuel | 30m fuel | ||
| 892 kg | Afterburning centrifugal-flow turbojet | 4,463 kg | 4,887 kg | 5,283 kg | 5,336 kg | |
| Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB) | Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP) | |||||
| Condition | 100% | WEP | 9m fuel | 20m fuel | 30m fuel | MGW |
| Stationary | 2,380 kgf | 2,932 kgf | 0.66 | 0.60 | 0.55 | 0.55 |
| Optimal | 2,380 kgf (0 km/h) |
2,932 kgf (0 km/h) |
0.66 | 0.60 | 0.55 | 0.55 |
Survivability and armour
Like his Fresco cousins, aside from a 60 mm windshield, it has 16 mm steel plates behind the pilot seats and a 10 mm one by the intake; although it might not sound much to autocannons, but having this extra layer of protection is better than none at all for the pilot.
Modifications and economy
| Flight performance | Survivability | Weaponry | ||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Offensive armament
The Lim-5P (Germany) is armed with:
- 3 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons, chin-mounted (100 rpg = 300 total)
Different from its cousins in other trees, the Lim-5P replaced the nose-mounted 37 mm N-37D cannon for a third 23 mm NR-23 instead; perhaps there is some weight reduction in this case but it is also a decrease in overall firepower. For players who find the 23 mm cannon sometimes unreliable, they should spend time to practice its ballistics and make sure every shot counts; 100 rounds per gun is not as forgiving as NATO jets.
Usage in battles
MiG-17 equivalent for the DDR line fighters is the best description for Lim-5P; it is the Polish licensed version of MiG-17PF and this also marks its identity as a all-weather interceptor with a RP-5 radar. It might not be very reliable due to its electronics, but 8 km detection range at higher altitude does also gives players an edge on spotting enemies beforehand; this is especially true in SB since who spot first really matters in this case (but do make sure the target is indeed an enemy). Another feature of Lim-5P is the VK-1F afterburner turbojet engine, players of Shenyang F-5 will soon find themselves at home as this further boost its capability to chase down enemies with lower energy or altitude with ease, sometimes even handling supersonic jets in dire.
However, players will also find the similar flaws from his cousins: control surfaces lock up and subpar roll rate at higher speeds. Be sure to check the speeds before chasing down enemies or players will meet their demise quickly; do beware of jets with missiles when doing dogfights, since the heat from the afterburner is high, turn it off for better odds to dodge the missile. Meanwhile, it has 3 x 23 mm NR-23 cannons instead of the conventional 2 x 23 mm and a 37 mm N-37D config for lighter weight during interception missions and also higher ammo count; to some players it means more rounds to spare, while some consider it as a big nerf from its cousins since the 23 mm rounds don't fly as straight as their NATO counterparts and some might prefer having a 37 mm for an instant-kill. Trigger discipline is still essential for this jet (300 rounds in total) to make sure the best efficiency can be achieved- it is still an autocannon, after all.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Very good acceleration due to the afterburner
- Has a RP-5 radar to search enemies
- Above average top speed and climb rate
- Turn rate is better than most enemies it faces
- More ammo for cannons compared to MiG-15s/17s
Cons:
- Rather bad roll rate at high speeds
- Compresses at high speeds
- 23 mm cannons have subpar velocity
- Lacks ground-attack ordnances
History
The MiG-17 (NATO: Fresco) has been the weapon of choice for Warsaw Pact or allies of Soviet Union and has already been exported to tens of countries throughout the 1950s; while the development for supersonic jets were still in progress, some countries with better heavy industry capabilities decided to get the license for building them domestically. Aside from the other wide-spread build of Shenyang J-5 (歼-5), the other licensed build was the WSK "PZL-Mielec" Lim-5 and 6 from Poland.
The licensing contract was signed in 1955 as the replacement of the earlier Lim-2 (MiG-15), Lim-5P was the all-weather variant of MiG-17PF with revisions on armaments and engine, as well as a RP-5 radar for target acquisition. By the end of 1960, 129 of them were built; some of them were also converted into Lim-6M and -6MR variant as attacker/recon aircraft for Polish Air Force.
The LSK (Luftstreitkräfte; East German Airforce) acquired 40-48 of MiG-17PF/Lim-5P from both USSR and Poland as one of the composition of their jet fighter/attacker fleets. They didn't join any combat and were phased out by newer jets from USSR between 1970 to 1973, either being scrapped or been transferred to Guinea-Bissau in the 1980s.[1]
Media
- Skins
- Videos
See also
- Related development
External links
References
| PZL Mielec (Polskie Zakłady Lotnicze) | |
|---|---|
| Jet Fighters | ◊Lim-5P |
| See also | Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau |
| Germany jet aircraft | |
|---|---|
|
Luftwaffe |
| He 162 | He 162 A-1 · He 162 A-2 |
| Me 163 | Me 163 B · Me 163 B-0 |
| Ho 229 | Ho 229 V3 |
| Ar 234 | Ar 234 B-2 · Ar 234 C-3 |
| Me 262 | Me 262 A-1a · Me 262 A-1a/Jabo · Me 262 A-1a/U1 · Me 262 A-1/U4 · Me 262 A-2a |
| Me 262 C-1a · Me 262 C-2b | |
|
LSK |
| Fighters | ◊MiG-15bis · ◊Lim-5P · ◊MiG-19S |
| ◊MiG-21MF · ◊MiG-21bis-SAU · ◊MiG-21 "Lazur-M" | |
| ◊MiG-29 | |
| Attackers | ◊MiG-23BN · ◊MiG-23MF · ◊MiG-23MLA |
| ◊Su-22UM3K · ◊Su-22M4 | |
| ◊IL-28 | |
|
Luftwaffe |
| F-84 | ◄F-84F |
| F-86 | ◄CL-13A Mk 5 · ◄CL-13B Mk.6 · ◄F-86K |
| F-104 | ◄F-104G |
| F-4 | ◄F-4F Early · ◄F-4F · ◄F-4F KWS LV |
| G.91 | ◄G.91 R/3 · ◄G.91 R/4 |
| Tornado | ◄Tornado IDS WTD61 · ◄Tornado IDS MFG · ◄Tornado IDS ASSTA1 |
| Other | Alpha Jet A · ◄Sea Hawk Mk.100 |
| Ex-LSK | ◄MiG-21 SPS-K · ◄MiG-29G · ◄Su-22M4 WTD61 |
|
Swiss Air Force |
| ◌Hunter F.58 · FFA P-16 | |
