Difference between revisions of "Khrizantema-S"
bangerland (talk | contribs) m (I suppose it is better now due to bob the builder upgrade, but HE could be much stronger than it is. Unfortunate.) |
Colok76286 (talk | contribs) (Edits) |
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There is no way to force the carrier to put the launcher down and close the hatch, so the tank is virtually exposed at all the times unlike with the Shturm-S. This is very unfortunate, as the hull is actually very short and could be hidden in the same manner as the predecessor otherwise. | There is no way to force the carrier to put the launcher down and close the hatch, so the tank is virtually exposed at all the times unlike with the Shturm-S. This is very unfortunate, as the hull is actually very short and could be hidden in the same manner as the predecessor otherwise. | ||
| − | + | The "Dozer Blade" upgrade allows the {{PAGENAME}} to create firing positions for itself anywhere, or to make attacking into its cover incredibly annoying and difficult, but its general weaknesses will remain the same. | |
'''Armour type:''' | '''Armour type:''' | ||
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* Launcher can be hard to aim manually | * Launcher can be hard to aim manually | ||
* Missiles have poor vertical manoeuvrability | * Missiles have poor vertical manoeuvrability | ||
| − | * Has to follow a specific set of rules to be useful in AB, so it cannot be used on certain maps efficiently in that mode, unless has | + | * Has to follow a specific set of rules to be useful in AB, so it cannot be used on certain maps efficiently in that mode, unless it has unlocked the dozer blade |
== History == | == History == | ||
Revision as of 15:21, 9 November 2021
Contents
Description
The 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S is a rank VII Soviet tank destroyer with a battle rating of 9.7 (AB/RB/SB). It was introduced in Update "Starfighters".
General info
Survivability and armour
The Khrizantema-S is very lightly armoured and only have 2 crew members, so it will barely survive any attack stronger than 7.62 mm MG to the hull. It, however, has some RHA plates on front, which are also angled closer towards 80°, making it capable of deflecting heavy machine gun fire and, at times, autocannon fire, or even non-APFSDS shells.
Unlike with Shturm-S, which has a virtual plate of 5 mm RHA covering the launcher hole at all the times, the Khrizantema-S has a huge gaping hole in the middle of the roof with no protection at all, which makes the tank count as open-topped. Due to this and overall bad armour thickness, any HE shell will knock out the vehicle even with an indirect hit. This means that even HE-I anti-air belts on planes are not a joke, but a legitimate lethal threat, Hellfire missiles or rocket salvos will also disintegrate the carrier.
Due to this, it requires hulldown or hills just to be able to fight, and it should avoid direct fights and artillery fire at all costs. To retreat from battle or to exploit its weapon system it can also use ESS together with thermal scope, creating a smoke wall behind and around itself. Unfortunately, it will not protect from tanks which also have thermal scope unlocked, which are the majority at the BR, although in AB not everyone uses it.
The weakness of armour is further prolonged by the fact, that even in hulldown its launcher and radar are still exposed and can be hit with HE, HESH or HEAT projectiles. This means, that HE shells can be landed on top of it in such a way that it will destroy the Khrizantema-S via overpressure, allowing other ATGM and even SAM tanks to defeat it, if their reaction time and aim are better.
There is no way to force the carrier to put the launcher down and close the hatch, so the tank is virtually exposed at all the times unlike with the Shturm-S. This is very unfortunate, as the hull is actually very short and could be hidden in the same manner as the predecessor otherwise.
The "Dozer Blade" upgrade allows the Khrizantema-S to create firing positions for itself anywhere, or to make attacking into its cover incredibly annoying and difficult, but its general weaknesses will remain the same.
Armour type:
- Alloy ABT-102 (hull)
- High hardness rolled armour (appliqué armour)
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | ___ mm | ___ mm Top ___ mm Bottom |
___ mm | ___ - ___ mm |
| Turret | ___ - ___ mm Turret front ___ mm Gun mantlet |
___ - ___ mm | ___ - ___ mm | ___ - ___ mm |
| Cupola | ___ mm | ___ mm | ___ mm | ___ mm |
Notes:
- Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick and tracks are 20 mm thick.
- Belly armour is 10 mm thick.
Mobility
| Game Mode | Max Speed (km/h) | Weight (tons) | Engine power (horsepower) | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Forward | Reverse | Stock | Upgraded | Stock | Upgraded | ||
| Arcade | 77 | 23 | 18 | 710 | 954 | 39.44 | 53 |
| Realistic | 71 | 21 | 442 | 500 | 24.56 | 27.78 | |
The Khrizantema-S's acceleration and mobility is somewhat closer to track-using light tanks due to it's low weight, but it has rather limited maximum speed, when compared to top rank VI or VII vehicles.
In RB, it's offroad forward speed is generally around 45 km/h. It's reverse speed is also limited, but will allow it to back out of a fight with about 15 km/h on demand. In AB, the acceleration is higher, so it is not impossible to reach 70 km/h with upgrades, but it will not outpace most medium tanks of the other nations at the rank.
The Khrizantema-S's climbing ability is mediocre, but it should be able to climb any hills when spaded. Overall, it's similar to the Shturm-S in that regard. The Khrizantema-S can swim with greatly reduced movement speed.
Modifications and economy
| Mobility | Protection | Firepower | ||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
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Armaments
Main armament
The Khrizantema-S has an ATGM handle similarly to the Shturm-S. It reloads two of the missile launchers at once, and only reloads them after both were used. Since it's completely automated, it will always take tank 15 seconds to reload.
Sniper optics and laser pointer are located on the very front-right of the hull, separately from the launchers. It must see tank's target for semi-automatic aim (mouse aim) to work.
Since the launcher is very fragile, it is important to avoid being hit until "Parts" are researched, as if the handle or the launcher are critically hit, the field repair will fail to completely fix them and the Khrizantema-S will become useless until it finds a light tank, squadmate or friendly capture point. This can be debilitating to a point it's easier to just bail out of the carrier rather than to try to repair.
The handle can aim in about 160 degree sector in front of the tank, but has problems with pointing down and too high up, which makes sniper aim to be more useful in some kind of open, flat territory, where tank can fire at targets directly. If it must be used in some kind of cluttered street, it's best to approach targets carefully while being mindful of the fact, that launcher is located behind sniper scope and not just above it, to avoid misfiring and hitting tank's own cover.
Similar issues follow radar aim as well, due to radar's limited vertical traverse, but it can guide missiles at angles far beyond capability of laser pointer.
Much like with the Shturm-S, it is possible to swap main weapon to the launcher itself and back to the scope by swapping between "primary weapon" and "machine gun". Unlike with the Shturm-S, it is possible to guide the first missile with the launcher in RB, which can be a very rude, but effective move. This trick also allows the tank to survive in AB, as using the radar in AB aggressively is way too dangerous, therefore using the launcher as a makeshift turret is the only viable, albeit weird, choice.
Both missiles can be controlled at the same time, either both by laser, or the first by radar and then the second by laser.
|
Missiles can be slaved to radar, therefore first missile launched while radar is locked on will fly straight for it and ignore user's input. It will do so even if the Khrizantema-S's hull is furiously shaking while swimming and manual shot seems impossible to make. If you let the first missile reach its target before firing again, the next missile will also be guided by a radar. |
Missiles themselves seem to have high level of horizontal mobility, but significantly lower vertical mobility - they can take sharp turns into sides, but they will refuse to drop down at the last moment, so it is better to keep then on level with intended target, unless they are guided by radar, in which case you have no control over them and they generally go for the turret neck or the centre of the target. Radar has far better control over how missiles move, but it is still ill-advised to launch them way too high, as they will just slam into the ground. They, however, will likely catch any slow flying helicopter, that does not immediately perform a drop straight down to the ground (which is very bad for RB helicopters and may result in unintended crash by itself).
Since the missiles are too bad at vertical manoeuvres even in AB, it's near impossible to use them for trick shots and for the same pseudo-hulldown tactics generally employed by the Shturm-S.
Missiles can fly up to 6 km away before running out of fuel. It makes them useful against both ground and air, but it may fail to reach overly cautious rank VII helicopters, due to them being able to fire from 8 km away. They are not very good at catching planes which are evading direct shots, especially when guided by the radar, as it often leads them in a less than optimal way.
9M123 is an extremely powerful tandem missile, which can potentially penetrate any NERA currently in the game on direct hit and will definitely penetrate any ERA due to it's power alone and tandem technology used to specifically breach ERA. Unlike with the missiles of Shturm-S, it is extremely unlikely that the target will survive, unless it was a glancing hit.
9M123F is the same carrier missile, but it is loaded with HE instead. In terms of penetration, they are equal to the strongest HE shells in the game. These are generally used to harass other light vehicles, which sometimes cannot be simply destroyed with HEAT payload, but, due to their high raw power, they sometimes can be launched at a main battle tank to destroy them if their turret is way too thick even for the incredibly powerful default missile or their commanders are being way too paranoid to hit directly with HEAT. Due to the extreme explosive mass, these missiles can actually cause dents in the ground which are not only visible by the eye, but slowly wear down enemy cover over time (though it will still take a very long time to do and is not very viable outside of AB).
| 9M123 missile | Turret rotation speed (°/s) | Reloading rate (seconds) | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mode | Capacity (Belt) | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | Stock | Upgraded | Full | Expert | Aced | Stock | Full | Expert | Aced |
| Arcade | 16 (2) | -5°/+15° | ±85° | N/A | 35.2 | 48.8 | 59.2 | 65.5 | 69.7 | 15.00 | 15.00 | 15.00 | 15.00 |
| Realistic | 23.8 | 28.0 | 34.0 | 37.6 | 40.0 | ||||||||
Ammunition
| Penetration statistics | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm) | |||||
| 10 m | 100 m | 500 m | 1,000 m | 1,500 m | 2,000 m | ||
| 9M123 | ATGM (tandem) | 1,200 | 1,200 | 1,200 | 1,200 | 1,200 | 1,200 |
| 9M123F | ATGM-HE | 61 | 61 | 61 | 61 | 61 | 61 |
| Shell details | ||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Range (m) |
Projectile Mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
Ricochet | ||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | ||||||||
| 9M123 | ATGM (tandem) | 550 | 6,000 | 46 | 0.4 | 0.01 | 6,160 | 80° | 82° | 90° |
| 9M123F | ATGM-HE | 550 | 6,000 | 46 | 0.2 | 0.01 | 9,240 | 79° | 80° | 81° |
Ammo racks
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
2nd rack empty |
3rd rack empty |
4th rack empty |
5th rack empty |
6th rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 8 | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ |
Radars
|
|
Khrizantema-S radar can not only lock onto aerial targets but also search for and lock onto ground targets, and it can also lock onto targets behind smoke and trees, and in the dark, even if user cannot see them. Keep both of these facts in mind, when using it |
The Khrizantema-S is equipped with a single search and tracking radar, mounted to the left of missile launchers. The radar system is incapable of scanning while tracking, and can only lock on targets within a 20° arc in direction the aiming device is pointed at. This means, that if the operator switches "primary weapon" towards the launcher itself, the radar will continue scanning in the same direction, while the gunner aims elsewhere, which could be used defensively in some niche scenarios.
Radar is following the targeting device and only scans in chosen direction. However, once locked, it can turn up to 85° degrees in either direction in front of the tank, continuing to track its target as long as the user didn't turn the laser pointer away further than 20°.
Vertically radar also has rather limited angles at which it can lock and track, but exact angles are difficult to measure. It also seems to rely more on hull position rather than aiming device when aiming at the sky. For that reason, it is better not to rely on search mode whatsoever and try to lock onto targets manually (by pressing the lock-on button in sniper mode while aiming at the target) to see if the tank needs to be moved, or it's just the radar being picky and the carrier needs to be angled upwards.
The radar will generally refuse to lock if the target is behind a tree or something solid, which means you will not waste a shot by just relying on it. However, it will often fail to lock on to a turret of a tank (which could be hit resulting in target destruction), so radar suggestions are not absolute and manual aim is not to be discarded.
Sometimes, the radar can lock on and track hostile tank at very long ranges, while aiming at them almost through the ground, allowing missiles to be launched over hills with minimal tank exposure and giving the Khrizantema-S an unexpected advantage, particularly noticeable at longer ranges of over 1.8 km.
It is also possible to check if enemy tank is dead or alive by locking onto it. Dead tanks generally do not pose any interest for the radar. (Probably unintended feature)
Radar is hidden within vehicle whenever it is powered down or seriously damaged. Since radar is a valid target for explosives, sometimes it is worth turning it off on purpose in RB. Sometimes, it is possible to damage the radar even if it's hidden for some reason.
It is definitely necessary to turn it off in AB, as it is easy to lock onto "selected" tank from sniper scope within radar scan radius even if it's offline, and the radar will only pop out for a fraction of a second if the lock was unsuccessful, instead of being a liability. The good time to turn it back on is when there are non-ESS smoke screens popped all around, so it is necessary to continuously scan the smoke in order to stay safe and fight.
| ??? - Target Detection Radar | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Maximum Detection Range |
Minimum Detection Range |
Max Azimuth Scan Angle |
Max Elevation Scan Angle |
Minimum relative speed |
| 8000? m | N/A | ±20°? | +40°? / -20°? | N/A |
| ??? - Target Tracking Radar | ||||
| Maximum Tracking Range |
Minimum Tracking Range |
Azimuth Tracking Angle |
Elevation Tracking Angle |
Minimum target speed |
| 8000? m | N/A | ±85° | _°/_° | N/A |
Usage in battles
- Arcade mode
Like the Shturm-S, the Khrizantema-S is an extremely flawed tank and is already outclassed by almost everything at its own BR, most noticeably when fighting proximity missile carriers. It also lost its anti-air ability, relying on the sheer speed of the missiles and, sometimes, its radar to hit aircraft. The radar is also more of a liability in AB than of help due to it being a target for explosives in a mode where all cannon-mounted tanks have aim prediction and assistance. However, the Khrizantema-S still have ATGMs with the highest raw damage in the game, which means that almost any tank hit directly will vaporize immediately. Unfortunately, the missiles also have poor vertical manoeuvrability, so it's impossible to imitate vertical ATGM and hulldown like with the Shturm-S.
To decide whether to spawn this ATGM carrier or not, a few questions should be answered first:
- Does the enemy team have an excessive amount of Dardo or M3A3 Bradley?
- Are there good horizontal hulldown spots on this map that you can use?
- Can you be easily hit to the hull in that hulldown spot (whether by ATGM or aim assisted HESH/HEAT)?
- Can you make it to the hulldown spot before you get sniped?
- Is your team being steamrolled so hard that an enemy team can afford an endless air support?
- Is it necessary to rush something down to win, at least right now?
- Are there close air support planes in this round? If so, are you good with hitting them without any help?
If any of these questions are a concern to you, it is probably better to spawn a different tank. Against proximity missiles, some medium tanks with ERA on the turret might be better. In some general combat situations, even the Shturm-S might be better due to its anti-air capability and lesser vulnerability to HEAT, but it has to use HE to fight NERA tanks and has to reload more often.
It is possible, that the second question puzzled you, as there are almost no sniping spots in this game, which could be normally used by the Khrizantema-S in AB without an immediate threat of being hit by a HEAT projectile (leading to an instant explosion due to a hole in the roof). Do not worry, as by using the launcher aiming trick, it is possible to imitate the M901, which can be effective.
At the very start of the match, turn your radar off and switch towards the launcher by pressing "select primary weapon". After this, drive straight towards your guarding post. You want to hold the line until the very last missile with minimal movement. The line might be a building block (which you will destroy to create cover and allow for direct shots), the line might be the front, which you can observe from behind an unusually big rock, it could even be a plateau, as it might even allow you to use the radar. If you have a Dozer Blade modification, you can try to build a firing position in some unusual spot. But, whatever you choose, the launcher must be able to aim straight at the enemy tank, so you are limited to only flat ground. Ideally, you want to be standing right next to your cover, as otherwise enemy might hit the hull by flinging shells, ATGM or even SAM over terrain.
After taking the position and cleaning it up for direct missile launching, wait for the enemies to appear. It won't take long, since many players around rank VII have fast tanks. After seeing one, enter sniper scope, hold aim assist button, adjust aim, then fire. If the tank in question is some sort of ATGM light tank, immediately double tap them from the third person view, even if you are generally sure of your aim, as to avoid being shot back into the launcher. Both missiles can be guided at the same time, so the second shot is not entirely wasted and can be redirected into the next tank.
Holding aim assist after aiming in sniper seat is necessary to prevent the missile going after the sniper scope into your tank after aiming at the enemy tank. Even though the launcher is going to turn away, the missiles still follow your aiming reticule. Because of this, if your right mouse button is not very steady and tends to lose the lock-on grip, bind an additional keyboard key, for it is necessary.
If possible, plan a retreat route for yourself, as it is often impossible to stop rank VII tankers from advancing. Many of them either have enough speed and game knowledge to understand that they have to annihilate you and will go full throttle towards you while you reload, or will go full throttle towards you simply because they can. However, if you have a plan B and can retreat behind the next cover, you can avoid being destroyed during the reload and deny enemy access to the area for far longer.
Unlike with the Shturm-S, there are no anti-air missile on the Khrizantema, and it is even more vulnerable to air raids, so fighting back will be difficult.
If there are helicopters: swap weapon control back towards the guiding device, use a hill, which allows the radar to lock on to one of them, and launch first missile via radar, while you guide the second missile into another one. Remember, radar lock will break if you turn the guiding device too far away from the first target, so if they spawned in a very spread-out formation you can just fire both missiles and guide them yourself immediately. If you see any helicopter ATGMs, use ESS and continue guiding the missiles via thermal scope towards the ATGM helicopter.
If there are planes: Forget about the radar and fire immediately. If you see a bomber spawning, immediately attack it, as they fly slower than the missiles and can't turn too much, so they are a relatively easy target. If you were able to shoot it down before they reached 1.8 km distance towards you, you are probably safe, but you can additionally move to a different cover if you saw any bombs flying off them. If there is a strike aircraft coming, you are pretty much dead, as they can easily dodge missiles and can keep throwing the plane up and down while firing off rockets, which the 9M123 will not be able to keep up with no matter what. Enemy fighters almost always come down to fire at the Khrizantema-S after fighting each other, but they are often spooked when you launch an ATGM straight at them, so when they reach 1 km distance or start directly diving onto you, fire an ATGM back at them and hope it hits or scares them away. Do not just forget about them after they passed you, as they definitely will circle around and try to hit you again.
If the enemy is using smoke grenades, pull the radar out and scan the screen, then lock onto them and fire one missile at the locked target. Scanning and locking on can also be done manually from the sniper seat without activating the radar, but you will have to be more precise about it, and you cant let yourself to be distracted by anything else.
If you use ESS screen to fight and do not want to rely on the radar and want to use thermal scope instead, do not forget to first swap weapon controls back towards the guidance device by resetting weapon control or by choosing the "machine gun" as a primary weapon, as otherwise it will be difficult to aim the second shot.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Destructive ATGM with an astounding 1,200 mm penetration, can penetrate most NERA screens and will obliterate most tanks on direct hit
- Radar can also lock onto tanks, through smokes, bushes, etc.
- Can fire and guide both missiles at once. It's also possible to attack two different targets at once, one via radar, one via laser
- Can swim and accurately snipe in water, rare for amphibious tanks
- Radar guided missiles can shut down any slow helicopter on their own if operator can keep the lock
- Has thermal optics for gunner
- Great mobility and acceleration
- Heavily sloped frontal armour
- The only ATGM tank to actually benefit from AB mechanics more than it loses
Cons:
- Armour is easily penetrated by any gun
- Launcher and radar are easy to hit when hull down, allowing hostile tanks to explode the hull anyway, as it counts as open-topped
- Very vulnerable to assaults by strike aircraft and have no efficient way of fighting them
- 9M123 ATGMs have inferior speed when compared to the missiles of ADATS and SAMs, making them inferior in missile duels
- Launcher can be hard to aim manually
- Missiles have poor vertical manoeuvrability
- Has to follow a specific set of rules to be useful in AB, so it cannot be used on certain maps efficiently in that mode, unless it has unlocked the dozer blade
History
Devblog
In the eighties, the KB Mashinostroyeniya in Kolomna began work on an all-weather anti-tank missile system capable of efficiently detecting and destroying ground armoured vehicles, helicopters and other units at any time of day and any visibility level.
The system was chosen to be mounted on the BMP-3 chassis – a highly mobile, all-terrain platform that could even navigate water. That is how the 9P157-2 Khrizantema came to be – it became a unique unit capable of simultaneously following targets on two separate channels – on its radar system and through visual contact.
Moreover, the abovementioned radar can detect and take aim at targets at any time of day and visibility level (be it night, smoke or sandstorm).
The system's missiles are capable of penetrating tank ERA along with over another 1,000 mm of armour beneath it. The Khrizantema was put into service by the Russian army in 2004 and has since undergone modernisation several times. The missile system has also been exported abroad and deployed by other countries.
Media
- Skins
- Images
See also
Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:
- reference to the series of the vehicles;
- links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.
External links
| USSR tank destroyers | |
|---|---|
| SU-76M | SU-76M · SU-76M (5th Gv.Kav.Corps) · SU-85A |
| SU-57B | SU-57B · SU-76D |
| T-34 Derivatives | SU-122 · SU-85 · SU-85M · SU-100 · SU-122P |
| Heavy Tank Derivatives | SU-100Y · ISU-122 · ISU-122S · SU-152 · ISU-152 · Object 268 |
| SU-100P and Derivatives | SU-100P · Object 120 |
| Wheeled | YaG-10 (29-K) |
| Airborne | ASU-57 · ASU-85 |
| Rocket | BM-8-24 · BM-13N · BM-31-12 |
| ATGM | IT-1 · Shturm-S · Object 775 · Khrizantema-S |
| Artillery | 2S1 · 2S3M |
| Other | SU-5-1 · ZiS-30 · SU-122-54 |
| USA | SU-57 |
- Ground vehicles
- USSR ground vehicles
- Seventh rank ground vehicles
- Tank destroyers
- ATGM vehicles
- Ground vehicles with engine smoke generating system
- Ground vehicles with dozer blade
- Amphibious ground vehicles
- Ground vehicles with night vision device
- Ground vehicles with thermal sight
- Ground vehicles with autoloader
