Difference between revisions of "J-8B"

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{{About
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| about = Chinese jet fighter '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
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| usage = the other version
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| link = J-8F
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}}
 
{{Specs-Card
 
{{Specs-Card
 
|code=j_8b
 
|code=j_8b
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== Description ==
 
== Description ==
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
 
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
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The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (歼-8B, NATO: Finback 长须鲸) is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Chinese jet fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"]].
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The J-8B (Chinese: 歼-8B型歼击机) and known by its nickname "Mr. Handsome in Air" (空中美男子) or NATO codename of "Finback", was one of the cornerstones of PLAAF before the 2000s that was developed from a revised design of the previous J-8I series with nose intake and inferior avionics. The jet was developed in early 1980s to compete with its intended foe: MiG-23 Floggers with overall superior performance to the first series J-8. However, the results of war in the Middle East proved J-8II should be aimed for even tougher enemies like F-16A, thus the prototype was planned for upgrades that could only be achieved by early 1990s with 1960s-equivalent avionics. These were the Block 2 of J-8II with a slightly upgraded radar for serial production and have served PLAAF for a decade until they were upgraded to later variants with new avionics, one of these jets also played a major part in the ongoing Sino-American conflicts and left its name in the pages of history.
  
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The Shenyang J-8 family of interceptor aircraft was designed to protect China's skies from bombers and reconnaissance aircraft. The J-8B is a revision of the initial J-8I series with more powerful engines and redesigned air intakes/forward fuselage for better avionics. It offers long-awaited SARH missiles and a fire-control radar for the PLAAF, while retaining a good top-speed and sufficient manoeuvrability for such a huge jet. The J-8B is more than 20 meters in length and 5.4 meters in height, making it the largest of the Rank VII fighters in all dimensions except wingspan, but it has a lower empty weight than the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] or even the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]. With two WP-13 engines and very clean aerodynamics, the J-8B has excellent acceleration and climb to fit its role as a high-altitude interceptor and can still turn well enough to dogfight in a pinch - quite apropos to its NATO reporting name of a long yet sleek whale.
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Introduced in [[Update "Wind of Change"]] and being the first jet at the time of introduction to have SARH and search radar for the PLAAF, it retains a good top-speed and sufficient manoeuvrability for such a huge jet. The J-8B is more than 20 m in length and 5.4 m in height, making it the largest of the Rank VII fighters in all dimensions except wingspan, but it has a lower empty weight than the [[F-4 Phantom II (Family)|F-4 Phantom]] or even the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]. With two WP-13 engines and very clean aerodynamics, the J-8B has excellent acceleration and climb to fit its role as a high-altitude interceptor and can still turn well enough to dogfight in a pinch - quite apropos to its NATO reporting name of a long yet sleek whale.
  
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However the J-8B is still an early model of the J-8II series and has some quirks. The domestic Type 208A radar has comparable performance to the [[F-5E]]'s AN/APQ-159 with no LD/SD capabilities. It is also limited to only 4 air-to-air missiles. Although the J-8B cannot go toe-to-toe with dedicated BVR fighters like the [[F-4J Phantom II|F-4J]] and [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], it can still be successful if used with some caution and complements the J-7E well.
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However the J-8B is still an early model of the J-8II series and has some quirks. The domestic Type 208A radar has comparable performance to the Mig-21's Sapfir-22 Fire-control radar with twice the maximum range and a 120 degree sweep angle but no boresight targeting option. It is also limited to only 4 air-to-air missiles. Although the J-8B cannot go toe-to-toe with dedicated BVR fighters like the [[F-4J Phantom II|F-4J]] and [[F-4EJ Kai Phantom II|F-4EJ Kai]], it can still be successful if used with some caution and complements the J-7E well.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
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{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}
 
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}
 
<!-- ''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.'' -->
 
<!-- ''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.'' -->
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To conclude what a J-8 series look like, "a Fishbed on steroids" would be very fitting since the overall design was literally an enlarged version of the J-7 with 2 turbojet engines: the later J-8II series revised the front of the airframe and introduced side intakes for a more streamline design. This size is also a drawback of the J-8B since it becomes a much larger target than its tech-tree predecessor, [[J-7E]].
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To sum up what a J-8 series looks like, "a Fishbed on steroids" would be very fitting since the overall design was literally an enlarged version of the J-7 with 2 turbojet engines: the later J-8II series revised the front of the airframe and introduced side intakes for a more streamline design. This size is also a drawback of the J-8B since it becomes a much larger target than its tech-tree predecessor, [[J-7E]].
  
 
Thanks to technological improvements over the decades, the J-8B equips two AECC Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II turbojet engines, improving the overall speed and climb rate over the J-8I (the J-8II was the fastest, highest climb rate jet in the PLAAF service until the introduction of Su-27SK/J-11 Flanker-B/L). The use of composite material also reduced its weight, while it retained its good manoeuvrability for such a large interceptor thanks to reworked elevators. However, just like any delta wing jets, any high AoA manoeuvres would be at the cost of severe speed bleeding; although the twin engines do mitigate some of the problem with their high acceleration, it is still advised to fly the J-8B as an interceptor instead of a turn-fighter, hit-and-run or high altitude operations is where it shines.
 
Thanks to technological improvements over the decades, the J-8B equips two AECC Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II turbojet engines, improving the overall speed and climb rate over the J-8I (the J-8II was the fastest, highest climb rate jet in the PLAAF service until the introduction of Su-27SK/J-11 Flanker-B/L). The use of composite material also reduced its weight, while it retained its good manoeuvrability for such a large interceptor thanks to reworked elevators. However, just like any delta wing jets, any high AoA manoeuvres would be at the cost of severe speed bleeding; although the twin engines do mitigate some of the problem with their high acceleration, it is still advised to fly the J-8B as an interceptor instead of a turn-fighter, hit-and-run or high altitude operations is where it shines.
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|-
 
|-
 
! Upgraded
 
! Upgraded
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| ___ || ___ || __._ || __._ || __._ || __._
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| 2,385 || 2,300 || 26.4 || 27.0 || 235.8 || 200.0
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
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== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
 
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
 
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
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|-
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! colspan="5" | [[Ballistic Computer]]
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|-
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! CCIP (Guns) !! CCIP (Rockets) !! CCIP (Bombs) !! CCRP (Bombs) !! EEGS
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|-
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| {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Tick}} || {{Cross}} || {{Cross}}
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|-
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|}
 
=== Offensive armament ===
 
=== Offensive armament ===
 
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}
 
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}
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The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
 
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
  
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* A choice between two presets:
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* 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
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** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, -mounted (200 rpg)
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* 64 x large calibre countermeasures
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** 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon + 64 x large caliber countermeasures
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The J-8B is the first Chinese aircraft in War Thunder to be equipped with the Type 23-3 cannon, which is a copy of the Soviet [[GSh-23L (23 mm)|GSh-23L]] seen on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]] and most [[MiG-21 (Family)|MiG-21]] models. Compared to the J-7E's lone 30 mm cannon, the Type 23-3 has a much higher rate of fire and more ammunition, but poorer ballistics and a lesser damage output.
  
 
=== Suspended armament ===
 
=== Suspended armament ===
 
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}
 
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}
 
<!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' -->
 
<!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' -->
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{{main|LDGP Mk 82 (500 lb)|Aspide-1A|PL-5B|Type 90-1}}
 
  
 
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
 
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
  
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* Without load
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
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|-
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! !! width="6%" | 1 !! width="6%" | 2 !! width="6%" | 3 !! width="6%" | 4 !! width="6%" | 5 !! width="6%" | 6 !! width="6%" | 7
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| rowspan="10" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_{{PAGENAME}}.png]]</div>
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|-
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! [[250-3 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-3]] bombs
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| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
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|-
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! [[250-4 (250 kg)|250 kg 250-4]] bombs
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| || 1 || || 6 || || 1 ||
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|-
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! [[500-3 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-3]] bombs
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| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
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|-
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! [[500-4 (500 kg)|500 kg 500-4]] bombs
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| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
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|-
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! [[Type 90-1]] rockets
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| 7 || 7 || || || || 7 || 7
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|-
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! [[Aspide-1A]] missiles
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| || 1 || || || || 1 ||
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|-
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! [[PL-5B]] missiles
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| || 1 || 1 || || 1 || 1 ||
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|-
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! 800 l drop tanks
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| 1 || || || || || || 1
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|-
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! 1,400 l drop tanks
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| || || || 1 || || ||
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|-
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|}
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{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
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{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
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* 2 x 800 l drop tanks + 1 x 1,400 l drop tank
 
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
 
* 2 x PL-5B missiles
 
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
 
* 4 x PL-5B missiles
 
* 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
 
* 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
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* 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
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* 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
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* 8 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (2,000 kg total)
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* 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
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* 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
 
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
 
* 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
 
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
 
* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 8 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (4,000 lb total)
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
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* 4 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs (3,000 lb total)
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* 4 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (1,500 kg total)
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82 bombs + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles (3,000 lb total)
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles (1,500 kg total)
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 14 x Type 90-1 rockets
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* 2 x PL-5B missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
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{{Navigation-End}}
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The J-8B's primary weapon is the PL-5B infrared homing missile that users of the previous J-7E will be very familiar with. It is still an excellent weapon with high manoeuvrability and acceleration, but it does not have an all-aspect seeker and cannot be used in head-ons.
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A new asset is the Italian Aspide-1A semi-active radar homing missile, the first of its class available to any Chinese fighter. A derivative of the AIM-7 Sparrow, the Aspide looks about the same but has an improved rocket motor: its 25 G overload matches the [[Skyflash]] and its Mach 5.0 max speed is the best of any Sparrow model in the game. The Aspide offers a fast and deadly punch in head-ons or longer distances. However, it is held back by the J-8B's primitive radar, which lacks look-down/shoot-down capability and has limited range. In addition, only two can be carried.
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For ground attack, the J-8B has access to Type 90-1 HEAT rockets and domestic 250/500 kg low-drag/retard bombs. It might not have the best payload among competitors, but having both missiles and bombs/rocket pods for multirole purpose is now possible thanks to the addition of ballistic computer; be extra careful on the speed and altitude- such a huge jet need more altitude to break-off from assaults. In case for a relatively safer approach, bring the Type 4 retard bombs with drag-chute when flying low.
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
 
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
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The basic design of the J-8 series is aimed for high-altitude interception of Soviet supersonic strategic bombers and the J-8B is no exception, its excellent climb rate, top speed, and acceleration make it a high-flyer by all means. Don't be fooled by the sheer size of it, the aerodynamic and control surface features on the J-8B make it surprisingly manoeuvrable as its flight envelope is very similar to a MiG-21MF, if not better; while the size can be a problem as well due to the large surface area, it would be easy for other jets to land shots upon you.
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The basic design of the J-8 series is aimed for high-altitude interception of supersonic strategic bombers and the J-8B is no exception, its excellent climb rate, top speed, and acceleration make it a high-flyer by all means. Don't be fooled by the sheer size of it, the aerodynamic and control surface features on the J-8B make it surprisingly manoeuvrable as its flight envelope is very similar to a MiG-21MF, if not better; while the size can be a problem as well due to the large surface area, it would be easy for other jets to land shots upon you.
  
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The overall weaponry and avionics are inferior compared to its opponents at the battle rating, with limited air-to-air and ground ordnance options. The PL-5Bs are only suitable for long range launches as they have difficulty manoeuvring after launch, it could surprise targets which have recovered from their manoeuvre in some cases thanks to the acceleration of the missile; and the Aspides are restricted by the poor performance of Changhong Type 208A radar, which has limited range and no pulse-Doppler capabilities. In addition, the two missile types cannot be carried together in a single loadout. Although the J-8B can carry up to 8 bombs or 28 Type 90-1 HEAT rockets, the jet doesn't come with any means of CCIP or CCRP. The large caliber countermeasures help in mitigating the flaws in weaponry systems, but it is still advised NOT to rush into the battlefield.
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The overall air-to-air weaponry and avionics are sufficient, though somewhat inferior to competitors. Neither the PL-5B IR AAM nor the Aspide-1A SARH AAM are limited by launch overload, which really helps when shooting down targets further than 1.5 km (both missiles need some distance before they can manoeuvre). The large calibre countermeasures help in mitigating the flaws in weaponry systems, but it is still advised not to rush into the battlefield.
  
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Pilots of the J-8B should be extra cautious to any enemies that might appear. Although flying high can mitigate the affects of radar ground clutter if you choose to bring the Aspide-1A missiles, it means the same for enemies' SARH missiles. If only bringing PL-5Bs into the fight, stay away from the heated battlefield, then fly in and pick up targets who has already used up their energy or unaware of your existence, a solid hit from a PL-5B can take down enemies with relative ease; do keep in mind that the missile is best used at distance over 1.5 km due to its immersive acceleration, the pylons without overload limitations really helps during interception of targets at lower altitude or revenge on foes who overtakes J-8B and didn't pull away from the player.
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Pilots of the J-8B should be extra cautious to any enemies that might appear. Although flying high can mitigate the affects of radar ground clutter if you choose to bring the '''Aspide-1A''' missiles ''(aka '''A弹 [A-missile]''' in PLAAF)'', it means the same for enemies' SARH missiles. If only bringing '''PL-5Bs''' into the fight, stay away from the heated battlefield, then fly in and pick up targets who has already used up their energy or unaware of your existence, a solid hit from a PL-5B can take down enemies with relative ease; do keep in mind that the missile is best used at distance over 1.5 km due to its immersive acceleration, the pylons without overload limitations really helps during interception of targets at lower altitude or revenge on foes who overtakes J-8B and didn't pull away from the player. If the player decides to bring the Aspide-1A missiles in case of a head-on, a special note for J-8B is that due to the overall inferior performance of the SL-5A (208A) radar, tune the radar to 60 km acquisition range and under short scan width (with a very narrow channel of scanning) for best performance against enemy jets; it is suggested to assault targets within 10 km radius and at higher altitude for better radar acquisition - the performance of Aspide-1A is likely to blow the enemies into pieces with ease; try to keep enemy on track as much as possible before Aspide hits the target. While bringing bombs and rocket pods are viable thanks to the addition of ballistic computer, players has to be extra careful on where they should appear as jets at this size need more room for any manoeuvre; but once the jet is in a good position out of enemy detection, the payload can still make short work of enemies while still leaving some chances to take down high-altitude targets; choose low-drag or retard bombs depending how would players like to approach enemy ground targets.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
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* High acceleration and top speed
 
* High acceleration and top speed
 
* Surprisingly manoeuvrable for its size
 
* Surprisingly manoeuvrable for its size
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* The very first Chinese jet with SARH missiles
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* The first Chinese jet with SARH missiles
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* Large-caliber countermeasures like those on the MiG-23
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* Large-calibre countermeasures like those on the [[MiG-23 (Family)|MiG-23]]
 
* Sufficient air-to-ground ordnance
 
* Sufficient air-to-ground ordnance
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* Huge size
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* Huge size relative to its predecessors
 
* Small ammo pool at only 200 rounds
 
* Small ammo pool at only 200 rounds
 
* Bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
 
* Bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
−
* Inferior avionics to its counterparts
+
* Inferior avionics to its counterparts such as [[F-4EJ Phantom II|F-4EJ]]
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** Lacks of any form of ballistic computer
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* Radar is notoriously unreliable, no PD capability nor an ACM feature.
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
 
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
 
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
 +
{{main|J-8 (Family)#History|l1=History of the J-8 family}}
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=== Background ===
 
=== Background ===
 
In view of harassment from high-altitude reconnaissance planes and supersonic strategic bombers from both US and USSR in early 1960s, Xu Shunshou (徐舜寿) and Huang Zhiqian (黄志千), the duo of designers from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) who had just finished the JJ-1 (歼教-1) program, soon started their design on a new interceptor. There were 22 designs for the new interceptor and most of them opted for a single-engine version, while Huang Zhiqian decided to leave a twin-engine design in case the development of the new engine would lag the entire program. After an intense debate on whether the new engine would be made in time, Huang's design, dubbed "Roast Duck" (烤鸭), using 2 existing WP-7 engines from J-7, became the design SAC opted for. This design was given the green light on 17th May 1965 as the J-8 (歼-8).
 
In view of harassment from high-altitude reconnaissance planes and supersonic strategic bombers from both US and USSR in early 1960s, Xu Shunshou (徐舜寿) and Huang Zhiqian (黄志千), the duo of designers from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) who had just finished the JJ-1 (歼教-1) program, soon started their design on a new interceptor. There were 22 designs for the new interceptor and most of them opted for a single-engine version, while Huang Zhiqian decided to leave a twin-engine design in case the development of the new engine would lag the entire program. After an intense debate on whether the new engine would be made in time, Huang's design, dubbed "Roast Duck" (烤鸭), using 2 existing WP-7 engines from J-7, became the design SAC opted for. This design was given the green light on 17th May 1965 as the J-8 (歼-8).
  
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Although the development of the J-8I was smooth sailing, during the ground tests and stress test, the first prototype was proved unsafe to do test flights and the failure of the first stress test almost gave the J-8I its death sentence; this was further intensified by the deaths of the designer duo. The new chief designer, Gu Songfen (顾诵芬) continued the project with their wills and finally rectified its manufacturing flaws. The J-8I finally made its first flight on 5th July 1969. However, SAC took a whole decade to finalise the aerodynamic design of the J-8I and the new jet only passed for state certification in the very last hours of 1979.
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Although the development of the J-8I was smooth sailing, during the ground tests and stress test, the first prototype was proved unsafe to do test flights and the failure of the first stress test almost gave the J-8I its death sentence; this was further intensified by the deaths of the designer duo due to different incidents. The new chief designer, Gu Songfen (顾诵芬) continued the project with their wills and finally rectified its manufacturing flaws. The J-8I finally made its first flight on 5th July 1969. However, SAC took a whole decade to finalise the aerodynamic design of the J-8I and the new jet only passed for state certification in the very last hours of 1979.
  
 
=== J-8II ===
 
=== J-8II ===
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Although later simulated dogfights with J-7 proved the J-8I was superior to the former in many aspects, the MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) was becoming a big threat to the PLAAF with better avionics. Although a MiG-23SM had been obtained from Egypt for evaluation, instead of reverse-engineering a domestic Flogger, they opted for a more streamlined design with side intakes based on the Flogger. The redesigned the J-8II made its first flight on 12th June 1984 with new technologies utilized during manufacture as well as for SARH missiles.
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Although later simulated dogfights with J-7 proved the J-8I was superior to the former in many aspects, the MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) was becoming a big threat to the PLAAF with better avionics. Although a MiG-23SM had been obtained from Egypt for evaluation, instead of reverse-engineering a domestic Flogger, they opted for a more streamlined design with side intakes based on the Flogger, as well as the first Chinese jet to utilize composite materials on wings and stabilizer for weight reduction. The redesigned the J-8II made its first flight on 12th June 1984 with new technologies utilized during manufacture as well as for SARH missiles.
  
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The 1980s also marked a better relationship with western countries, SAC then sought Grumman to upgrade the J-8II into a modernized jet dubbed "Project 8-2" or Peace Pearl (八二工程/和平珍珠) with the latest avionics from the F-16C. However, the 1989 Beijing Crackdown halted this program and it was eventually cancelled in 1990 in view of importing new Su-27 Flankers from the Soviet Union. While the Project 8-2 and later Project 8-3 (J-8C) failed, SAC finalised the radar and the J-8II Block 2/J-8B passed certification in 1995. With later models of the J-8II series produced in the late 1990s and 2000s, these earlier J-8B were mostly upgraded to newer standards and still kept in service in some units as a placeholder before the new J-10s and -11s replaced them.
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The 1980s also marked a better relationship with western countries, SAC then sought Grumman to upgrade the J-8II into a modernized jet dubbed "Project 8-2" or Peace Pearl (八二工程/和平珍珠) with the latest avionics from the F-16C. However, the 1989 Beijing Crackdown halted this program and it was eventually cancelled in 1990 in view of importing new Su-27 Flankers from the Soviet Union. While the Project 8-2 and later Project 8-3 (J-8C) failed, SAC finalised the radar and the J-8II Block 2/J-8B passed certification in 1995. With later models of the J-8II series produced in the late 1990s and 2000s, these earlier J-8B were mostly upgraded to newer standards (D with refuel probe; H,F with better avionics and missiles); the remaining combat-capable J-8II series were decommissioned by the very last Air Force brigade in Western Theatre Command <ref>https://new.qq.com/omn/20220606/20220606A073IC00.html</ref>, marking the end of J-8II in combat service and only a recon brigade in Chongming, Shanghai still operate the very last dozen of JZ-8F recon.
  
 
=== The Spiritual Number: 81192 ===
 
=== The Spiritual Number: 81192 ===
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== Media ==
 
== Media ==
 
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* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=j_8b Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
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== See also ==
 
== See also ==
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=== References ===
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{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
 
{{AirManufacturer Shenyang}}
 
{{China jet aircraft}}
 
{{China jet aircraft}}

Latest revision as of 20:51, 20 June 2024

RANK 5 FRANCE
Somua SM PACK
This page is about the Chinese jet fighter J-8B. For the other version, see J-8F.
J-8B
j_8b.png
GarageImage J-8B.jpg
J-8B
China flag.png China
VII Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
11.3 11.3 11.7
Class:
Research:350 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:950 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

The J-8B (Chinese: 歼-8B型歼击机) and known by its nickname "Mr. Handsome in Air" (空中美男子) or NATO codename of "Finback", was one of the cornerstones of PLAAF before the 2000s that was developed from a revised design of the previous J-8I series with nose intake and inferior avionics. The jet was developed in early 1980s to compete with its intended foe: MiG-23 Floggers with overall superior performance to the first series J-8. However, the results of war in the Middle East proved J-8II should be aimed for even tougher enemies like F-16A, thus the prototype was planned for upgrades that could only be achieved by early 1990s with 1960s-equivalent avionics. These were the Block 2 of J-8II with a slightly upgraded radar for serial production and have served PLAAF for a decade until they were upgraded to later variants with new avionics, one of these jets also played a major part in the ongoing Sino-American conflicts and left its name in the pages of history.

Introduced in Update "Wind of Change" and being the first jet at the time of introduction to have SARH and search radar for the PLAAF, it retains a good top-speed and sufficient manoeuvrability for such a huge jet. The J-8B is more than 20 m in length and 5.4 m in height, making it the largest of the Rank VII fighters in all dimensions except wingspan, but it has a lower empty weight than the F-4 Phantom or even the MiG-23. With two WP-13 engines and very clean aerodynamics, the J-8B has excellent acceleration and climb to fit its role as a high-altitude interceptor and can still turn well enough to dogfight in a pinch - quite apropos to its NATO reporting name of a long yet sleek whale.

However the J-8B is still an early model of the J-8II series and has some quirks. The domestic Type 208A radar has comparable performance to the Mig-21's Sapfir-22 Fire-control radar with twice the maximum range and a 120 degree sweep angle but no boresight targeting option. It is also limited to only 4 air-to-air missiles. Although the J-8B cannot go toe-to-toe with dedicated BVR fighters like the F-4J and F-4EJ Kai, it can still be successful if used with some caution and complements the J-7E well.

General info

Flight performance

Air brakes
Allows you to dramatically reduce the flight speed by releasing special flaps
Drogue parachute
Reduces braking distance when landing on any runway
Max speed
at 12 000 m2 300 km/h
Turn time27 s
Max altitude16 000 m
Engine2 х Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II
TypeJet
Cooling systemAir
Take-off weight17 t

To sum up what a J-8 series looks like, "a Fishbed on steroids" would be very fitting since the overall design was literally an enlarged version of the J-7 with 2 turbojet engines: the later J-8II series revised the front of the airframe and introduced side intakes for a more streamline design. This size is also a drawback of the J-8B since it becomes a much larger target than its tech-tree predecessor, J-7E.

Thanks to technological improvements over the decades, the J-8B equips two AECC Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II turbojet engines, improving the overall speed and climb rate over the J-8I (the J-8II was the fastest, highest climb rate jet in the PLAAF service until the introduction of Su-27SK/J-11 Flanker-B/L). The use of composite material also reduced its weight, while it retained its good manoeuvrability for such a large interceptor thanks to reworked elevators. However, just like any delta wing jets, any high AoA manoeuvres would be at the cost of severe speed bleeding; although the twin engines do mitigate some of the problem with their high acceleration, it is still advised to fly the J-8B as an interceptor instead of a turn-fighter, hit-and-run or high altitude operations is where it shines.

Characteristics Max Speed
(km/h at 12,000 m) 		Max altitude
(metres) 		Turn time
(seconds) 		Rate of climb
(metres/second) 		Take-off run
(metres)
AB RB AB RB AB RB
Stock 2,226 2,206 16000 27.8 28.7 167.4 159.6 750
Upgraded 2,385 2,300 26.4 27.0 235.8 200.0

Details

Features
Combat flaps Take-off flaps Landing flaps Air brakes Arrestor gear Drogue chute
X ✓ ✓ ✓ X ✓
Limits
Wings (km/h) Gear (km/h) Flaps (km/h) Max Static G
Combat Take-off Landing + -
1,365 500 N/A 525 450 ~12 ~6
Optimal velocities (km/h)
Ailerons Rudder Elevators Radiator
< 650 < 600 < 900 N/A

Engine performance

Engine Aircraft mass
Engine name Number Basic mass Wing loading (full fuel)
Shenyang Liming WP-13A-II 2 9,947 kg ___ kg/m2
Engine characteristics Mass with fuel (no weapons load) Max Takeoff
Weight
Weight (each) Type 10m fuel 20m fuel 30m fuel 35m fuel
1,140 kg Afterburning axial-flow turbojet 11,243 kg 12,362 kg 13,570 kg 14,267 kg _,___ kg
Maximum engine thrust @ 0 m (RB/SB) Thrust to weight ratio @ 0 m (WEP)
Condition 100% WEP 10m fuel 20m fuel 30m fuel 35m fuel MTOW
Stationary 3,825 kgf 6,483 kgf 1.15 1.05 0.96 0.91 _.__
Optimal 3,825 kgf
(0 km/h) 		6,977 kgf
(1,200 km/h) 		1.24 1.13 1.03 0.98 _.__

Survivability and armour

Flares/Chaff
Aircraft countermeasures to distract IR and radar-guided missiles and also AA radar
Crew1 person
Speed of destruction
Structural0 km/h
Gear500 km/h

As with many jet aircraft, the J-8B has self-sealing fuel tanks, as well as a 65 mm bulletproof glass windshield and a 16 mm plate behind the pilot's seat.

  • 16 mm Steel plate - Rear of cockpit, behind the seat
  • 65 mm Bulletproof glass - Windshield

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB2 719 → 4 045 Sl icon.png
RB8 021 → 11 935 Sl icon.png
SB8 222 → 12 234 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications299 000 Rp icon.png
463 000 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost3 000 Ge icon.png
Crew training270 000 Sl icon.png
Experts950 000 Sl icon.png
Aces3 200 Ge icon.png
Research Aces1 210 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
100 / 320 / 600 % Sl icon.png
244 / 244 / 244 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Flight performance Survivability Weaponry
Mods aerodinamic fuse.png
Fuselage repair
Research:
15 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
23 000 Sl icon.png
420 Ge icon.png
Mods jet compressor.png
Compressor
Research:
15 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
23 000 Sl icon.png
420 Ge icon.png
Mods booster.png
New boosters
Research:
17 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
26 000 Sl icon.png
470 Ge icon.png
Mods aerodinamic wing.png
Wings repair
Research:
25 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
39 000 Sl icon.png
690 Ge icon.png
Mods g suit.png
G-suit
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png
Mods jet engine.png
Engine
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png
Mods armor frame.png
Airframe
Research:
17 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
26 000 Sl icon.png
470 Ge icon.png
Mods armor cover.png
Cover
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png
Mods heli false thermal targets.png
Flares/Chaff
Research:
15 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
23 000 Sl icon.png
420 Ge icon.png
Mods ammo.png
ns23_belt_pack
Research:
15 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
23 000 Sl icon.png
420 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 1.png
Mods air to air missile.png
PL-5B
Research:
17 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
26 000 Sl icon.png
470 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 1.png
Mods pilon block rocket.png
HF-6
Research:
17 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
26 000 Sl icon.png
470 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 0.png
Mods weapon.png
ns23_new_gun
Research:
25 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
39 000 Sl icon.png
690 Ge icon.png
Mods pilon bomb.png
Type 250
Research:
25 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
39 000 Sl icon.png
690 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 0.png
Mods jet engine extinguisher.png
EFS
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png
Mods air to air midrange missile.png
Aspide
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png
Mods pilon bomb.png
Type 500
Research:
16 000 Rp icon.png
Cost:
25 000 Sl icon.png
440 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Ballistic Computer
CCIP (Guns) CCIP (Rockets) CCIP (Bombs) CCRP (Bombs) EEGS
Icon GreenCheckmark.png Icon GreenCheckmark.png Icon GreenCheckmark.png Icon RedXCross.png Icon RedXCross.png

Offensive armament

Main article: Type 23-3 (23 mm)

The J-8B is armed with:

  • 1 x 23 mm Type 23-3 cannon, belly-mounted (200 rpg)
  • 64 x large calibre countermeasures

The J-8B is the first Chinese aircraft in War Thunder to be equipped with the Type 23-3 cannon, which is a copy of the Soviet GSh-23L seen on the MiG-23 and most MiG-21 models. Compared to the J-7E's lone 30 mm cannon, the Type 23-3 has a much higher rate of fire and more ammunition, but poorer ballistics and a lesser damage output.

Suspended armament

The J-8B can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Hardpoints J-8B.png
250 kg 250-3 bombs 1 6 1
250 kg 250-4 bombs 1 6 1
500 kg 500-3 bombs 1 1
500 kg 500-4 bombs 1 1
Type 90-1 rockets 7 7 7 7
Aspide-1A missiles 1 1
PL-5B missiles 1 1 1 1
800 l drop tanks 1 1
1,400 l drop tanks 1
Default weapon presets
  • 2 x 800 l drop tanks + 1 x 1,400 l drop tank
  • 2 x PL-5B missiles
  • 4 x PL-5B missiles
  • 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
  • 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
  • 8 x 250 kg 250-4 bombs (2,000 kg total)
  • 2 x 500 kg 500-3 bombs (1,000 kg total)
  • 2 x 500 kg 500-4 bombs (1,000 kg total)
  • 28 x Type 90-1 rockets
  • 2 x PL-5B missiles + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles
  • 2 x PL-5B missiles + 8 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (2,000 kg total)
  • 4 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs (1,500 kg total)
  • 2 x PL-5B missiles + 6 x 250 kg 250-3 bombs + 2 x Aspide-1A missiles (1,500 kg total)
  • 2 x PL-5B missiles + 28 x Type 90-1 rockets

The J-8B's primary weapon is the PL-5B infrared homing missile that users of the previous J-7E will be very familiar with. It is still an excellent weapon with high manoeuvrability and acceleration, but it does not have an all-aspect seeker and cannot be used in head-ons.

A new asset is the Italian Aspide-1A semi-active radar homing missile, the first of its class available to any Chinese fighter. A derivative of the AIM-7 Sparrow, the Aspide looks about the same but has an improved rocket motor: its 25 G overload matches the Skyflash and its Mach 5.0 max speed is the best of any Sparrow model in the game. The Aspide offers a fast and deadly punch in head-ons or longer distances. However, it is held back by the J-8B's primitive radar, which lacks look-down/shoot-down capability and has limited range. In addition, only two can be carried.

For ground attack, the J-8B has access to Type 90-1 HEAT rockets and domestic 250/500 kg low-drag/retard bombs. It might not have the best payload among competitors, but having both missiles and bombs/rocket pods for multirole purpose is now possible thanks to the addition of ballistic computer; be extra careful on the speed and altitude- such a huge jet need more altitude to break-off from assaults. In case for a relatively safer approach, bring the Type 4 retard bombs with drag-chute when flying low.

Usage in battles

The basic design of the J-8 series is aimed for high-altitude interception of supersonic strategic bombers and the J-8B is no exception, its excellent climb rate, top speed, and acceleration make it a high-flyer by all means. Don't be fooled by the sheer size of it, the aerodynamic and control surface features on the J-8B make it surprisingly manoeuvrable as its flight envelope is very similar to a MiG-21MF, if not better; while the size can be a problem as well due to the large surface area, it would be easy for other jets to land shots upon you.

The overall air-to-air weaponry and avionics are sufficient, though somewhat inferior to competitors. Neither the PL-5B IR AAM nor the Aspide-1A SARH AAM are limited by launch overload, which really helps when shooting down targets further than 1.5 km (both missiles need some distance before they can manoeuvre). The large calibre countermeasures help in mitigating the flaws in weaponry systems, but it is still advised not to rush into the battlefield.

Pilots of the J-8B should be extra cautious to any enemies that might appear. Although flying high can mitigate the affects of radar ground clutter if you choose to bring the Aspide-1A missiles (aka A弹 [A-missile] in PLAAF), it means the same for enemies' SARH missiles. If only bringing PL-5Bs into the fight, stay away from the heated battlefield, then fly in and pick up targets who has already used up their energy or unaware of your existence, a solid hit from a PL-5B can take down enemies with relative ease; do keep in mind that the missile is best used at distance over 1.5 km due to its immersive acceleration, the pylons without overload limitations really helps during interception of targets at lower altitude or revenge on foes who overtakes J-8B and didn't pull away from the player. If the player decides to bring the Aspide-1A missiles in case of a head-on, a special note for J-8B is that due to the overall inferior performance of the SL-5A (208A) radar, tune the radar to 60 km acquisition range and under short scan width (with a very narrow channel of scanning) for best performance against enemy jets; it is suggested to assault targets within 10 km radius and at higher altitude for better radar acquisition - the performance of Aspide-1A is likely to blow the enemies into pieces with ease; try to keep enemy on track as much as possible before Aspide hits the target. While bringing bombs and rocket pods are viable thanks to the addition of ballistic computer, players has to be extra careful on where they should appear as jets at this size need more room for any manoeuvre; but once the jet is in a good position out of enemy detection, the payload can still make short work of enemies while still leaving some chances to take down high-altitude targets; choose low-drag or retard bombs depending how would players like to approach enemy ground targets.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • High acceleration and top speed
  • Surprisingly manoeuvrable for its size
  • The first Chinese jet with SARH missiles
  • Large-calibre countermeasures like those on the MiG-23
  • Sufficient air-to-ground ordnance

Cons:

  • Huge size relative to its predecessors
  • Small ammo pool at only 200 rounds
  • Bleeds speed severely in manoeuvres
  • Inferior avionics to its counterparts such as F-4EJ
  • Radar is notoriously unreliable, no PD capability nor an ACM feature.

History

Main article: History of the J-8 family

Background

In view of harassment from high-altitude reconnaissance planes and supersonic strategic bombers from both US and USSR in early 1960s, Xu Shunshou (徐舜寿) and Huang Zhiqian (黄志千), the duo of designers from Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) who had just finished the JJ-1 (歼教-1) program, soon started their design on a new interceptor. There were 22 designs for the new interceptor and most of them opted for a single-engine version, while Huang Zhiqian decided to leave a twin-engine design in case the development of the new engine would lag the entire program. After an intense debate on whether the new engine would be made in time, Huang's design, dubbed "Roast Duck" (烤鸭), using 2 existing WP-7 engines from J-7, became the design SAC opted for. This design was given the green light on 17th May 1965 as the J-8 (歼-8).

Although the development of the J-8I was smooth sailing, during the ground tests and stress test, the first prototype was proved unsafe to do test flights and the failure of the first stress test almost gave the J-8I its death sentence; this was further intensified by the deaths of the designer duo due to different incidents. The new chief designer, Gu Songfen (顾诵芬) continued the project with their wills and finally rectified its manufacturing flaws. The J-8I finally made its first flight on 5th July 1969. However, SAC took a whole decade to finalise the aerodynamic design of the J-8I and the new jet only passed for state certification in the very last hours of 1979.

J-8II

Although later simulated dogfights with J-7 proved the J-8I was superior to the former in many aspects, the MiG-23 (NATO: Flogger) was becoming a big threat to the PLAAF with better avionics. Although a MiG-23SM had been obtained from Egypt for evaluation, instead of reverse-engineering a domestic Flogger, they opted for a more streamlined design with side intakes based on the Flogger, as well as the first Chinese jet to utilize composite materials on wings and stabilizer for weight reduction. The redesigned the J-8II made its first flight on 12th June 1984 with new technologies utilized during manufacture as well as for SARH missiles.

The 1980s also marked a better relationship with western countries, SAC then sought Grumman to upgrade the J-8II into a modernized jet dubbed "Project 8-2" or Peace Pearl (八二工程/和平珍珠) with the latest avionics from the F-16C. However, the 1989 Beijing Crackdown halted this program and it was eventually cancelled in 1990 in view of importing new Su-27 Flankers from the Soviet Union. While the Project 8-2 and later Project 8-3 (J-8C) failed, SAC finalised the radar and the J-8II Block 2/J-8B passed certification in 1995. With later models of the J-8II series produced in the late 1990s and 2000s, these earlier J-8B were mostly upgraded to newer standards (D with refuel probe; H,F with better avionics and missiles); the remaining combat-capable J-8II series were decommissioned by the very last Air Force brigade in Western Theatre Command [1], marking the end of J-8II in combat service and only a recon brigade in Chongming, Shanghai still operate the very last dozen of JZ-8F recon.

The Spiritual Number: 81192

The default skin for J-8B includes the number "81192" painted on the sides outside of cockpit, this number has become the spiritual number of military enthusiasts and players in Mainland China due to the Hainan Island Incident between the PLANAF and USN.

On 1st April 2001, an EP-3 (BuNo. 156511) from VQ-1 of the USN stationed at Okinawa, piloted by Lieutenant Commander Shane Osborn was conducting a reconnaissance flight close to Hainan Island, where a pair of J-8B from Hainan Lingshui Airbase intercepted them; one of the J-8B, piloted by Major Wang Wei (王伟) from 27 Brigade, 9th Division of PLANAF, accidentally rammed the EP-3's left wing and was severely damaged by the propellers, his jet crashed into the South China Sea and the EP-3 made an emergency landing at Lingshui Airbase. Although Wang Wei was witnessed to have ejected, after weeks of searching, he was declared KIA and was posthumously given martyr and the "Guardian of Sea and Air" (海空卫士) title by PLA.

This incident further ignited the backlash towards the US in Mainland China after multiple diplomatic incidents during the 1990s; the EP-3 was then disassembled and sent back to USN with an Antonov AN-124 and the incident ended with an official apology from the US Government.

A decade later, photos from a photographer in Mainland China proved that the J-8B numbered 81192 was still in service in the early 2010s (but upgraded to J-8BH standards with a black radome); later rediscovery of magazine photos showed that a model of the J-8B given to Ruan Guoqin (阮国琴), widow of Wang Wei, was numbered 81194. The debate of whether 92 or 94 was the jet involved still continues, but the number 81192 has already become the symbol of the long-lasting Sino-US conflicts and there are memorial events every year at Wang Wei's cenotaph at Huzhou, Zhejiang.

Media

Skins
Videos
The Shooting Range #306 - Metal Beasts section at 00:26 discusses the J-8B.

See also

External links

References

  1. ↑ https://new.qq.com/omn/20220606/20220606A073IC00.html


Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (中航工业沈阳飞机工业(集团)有限公司)
Jet Fighters 
MiG-15  J-2*
MiG-17  J-4*
MiG-19  J-6A*
J-8  J-8B · J-8F
Su-27 variants  J-11* · J-11A*
Export  Shenyang F-5*
  *Licensed
Note: "J-2" and "J-4" are not official designations
See Also  Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau

China jet aircraft
Fighters  J-2 · J-4 · J-6A · J-7II · J-7D · J-7E · J-8B · J-8F · J-10A · J-11 · J-11A
Strike aircraft  Q-5 early · Q-5A · Q-5L · JH-7A
Bombers  H-5
France  ␗Mirage 2000-5Ei
USA  ␗F-84G-21-RE · ␗F-84G-31-RE · ␗F-86F-30 · ␗F-86F-40 · ␗F-100A · ␗F-100F · ␗F-104A · ␗F-104G · ␗F-5A · ␗F-5E · ␗F-16A MLU
USSR  ␗MiG-9 · ␗MiG-9 (l)
North Korea  Shenyang F-5
Pakistan  A-5C · JF-17

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