Difference between revisions of "SIDAM 25"
m (→Usage in battles: Grammatical cleanup, wording adjustments) (Tag: Visual edit) |
bangerland (talk | contribs) (It will be eternity until i can properly test this vehicle, but i can already tell that a lot of things either changed or werent tested thoroughly.) |
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{{main|Oerlikon KBA (25 mm)}} | {{main|Oerlikon KBA (25 mm)}} | ||
| − | + | The turret is the main selling point of the SIDAM 25. | |
| + | |||
| + | It houses four 25 mm cannons which can only fire pure HE or pure APDS belts. The guns all fire at once and while the fire rate isn't as overwhelming as with ZSU-23-4 or other "suppressing fire" SPAA, it more than makes that up with the turret handling and shells. | ||
| + | |||
| + | It has the fastest turret rotation in the game, even stock it turns as fast as maxed out turret of the Chieftain Marksman with decent crew, and as it is maxed out it can do a 180 turn in less than a second. This allows the user to actually pull off "reactionary" playstyle without having to give up their entire attention span to the skies. Additionally, the guns are completely stabilised, so even if SPAA is running away from something or chasing a helicopter, there is no need to think about movement affecting accuracy. | ||
| + | |||
| + | Spread out gun formation allows to compensate for inaccurate aim and shell velocity. While it may seem like an overkill to a decent player, the jets more than deserve "overwhelming fire" policy, particularly in the future ranks. Unfortunately, the italian SPAA does not have as many shells as its peers, only carrying 660 of them at a maximum. | ||
| + | |||
| + | The HE shells fly at 1100 m/s speed, which is only a bit slower than 30-35 mm calibre shells and significantly faster than shells of the ZSU-23-4. Unfortunately, they will self-destruct at about 2.5 km range, so even with the tracker it is sometimes impossible to blow up the plane that is quickly leaving the premises (it will refuse to aim at the targets back past 2 km range), and some helicopters can be smart enough to avoid SPAA effective range. Since the tracker is absolutely accurate, it is rather easy to annihilate any aircraft that isn't changing their flight direction immediately. Any early helicopter unfortunate enough to appear within effective range of HE shells is probably going to be vaporized before they can even dodge, though it's not impossible. | ||
| + | |||
| + | The APDS shells do not have the range restrictions, have no tracers and fly at 1330 m/s speed. They can be used to either shred some annoying tank, or to suddenly tear apart exceptionally annoying aircraft. Since SIDAM 25 is completely accurate and does not trigger any warnings, a single tap of APDS will almost certainly scrap any passive aircraft. Unfortunately, the APDS belt is very limited - with only 60 APDS rounds available to fire, it is recommended to use them sparingly and only against light tanks/SPAA or high priority air targets. | ||
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%" | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%" | ||
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{{main|3JB10}} | {{main|3JB10}} | ||
| − | The SIDAM 25 is equipped with a [[3JB10]] optronic tracking system, with no search radar. The tracking system does not trigger the radar warning receiver fitted to some helicopters. | + | The SIDAM 25 is equipped with a [[3JB10]] optronic tracking system, with no search radar, so it needs to be manually locked on from the sniper seat. The tracking system does not trigger the radar warning receiver fitted to some helicopters and planes. The lock-on scope also will not wobble, like with the radars, providing better aim assist. |
| − | {{Notice|Although the tracker can track targets in an elevation range of -20°/+85° once locked on, it can | + | {{Notice|Although the tracker can track targets in an elevation range of -20°/+85° once locked on, it can be difficult to lock on to targets past +20° in elevation. Be patient!}} |
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" | ||
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! {{Annotation|Minimum<br/>target speed|The minimum speed a target must be moving, relative to the radar, in order to be tracked by the radar}} | ! {{Annotation|Minimum<br/>target speed|The minimum speed a target must be moving, relative to the radar, in order to be tracked by the radar}} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | | 5,000 m || 100 m || 360° || -20°/+85°<br />(lock between -20°/+ | + | | 5,000 m || 100 m || 360° || -20°/+85°<br />(lock between -20°/+85°) || 1 m/s (3.6 km/h) |
|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
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In case any vehicles breach your defenses you do have access to a small amount of APDS rounds. These will shred light vehicles and can disable heavier ones with precise aim. The SIDAM 25's APDS can penetrate up to 81 mm of armour. Do keep in mind that the APDS is a tier 3 modification so you'll have to research it before having access to it. Use the APDS strictly for self-defense, as the low ammunition count and characteristics of the hull severely limit its offensive ability. You can negate the low APDS count by staying near a capture point for rapid resupply. If able, play around capture points to keep your ammunition supplied. | In case any vehicles breach your defenses you do have access to a small amount of APDS rounds. These will shred light vehicles and can disable heavier ones with precise aim. The SIDAM 25's APDS can penetrate up to 81 mm of armour. Do keep in mind that the APDS is a tier 3 modification so you'll have to research it before having access to it. Use the APDS strictly for self-defense, as the low ammunition count and characteristics of the hull severely limit its offensive ability. You can negate the low APDS count by staying near a capture point for rapid resupply. If able, play around capture points to keep your ammunition supplied. | ||
| − | In the anti-air sector, the SIDAM 25 does not have access to a radar, unlike other nations' counterparts at the battle rating. What you do have access to however is an optronic tracking system, which allows targets to be tracked, and provides one of the most most accurate lead indicators for any vehicle. This will allow you to predict flight paths of any enemy air vehicles you'll be facing. Another great thing about the optronic system is that it cannot be detected by radar warning receivers on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for you to target them and hopefully take them out with a quick barrage of you main | + | In the anti-air sector, the SIDAM 25 does not have access to a radar, unlike other nations' counterparts at the battle rating. What you do have access to however is an optronic tracking system, which allows targets to be tracked, and provides one of the most most accurate lead indicators for any vehicle. This will allow you to predict flight paths of any enemy air vehicles you'll be facing. Another great thing about the optronic system is that it cannot be detected by radar warning receivers on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for you to target them and hopefully take them out with a quick barrage of you main guns. Speaking of which, the SIDAM's main armament consists of 4 x 25 mm guns, with a combined firepower of 2200 rounds per minute; more than enough to deal with any aircraft foolish enough to fly directly at you. Even if they do not approach you directly or managed to surprise you, the turret can quickly snap in their direction to fire a lethal burst of APDS after them. Additionally, APDS can be used for stealthy assassinations of any long-range CAS, as long as you can actually spot them. You also have access to a two-plane stabilizer, which will furthermore aid you in firefights against both ground and air vehicles, as you don't really have to stay in one spot. |
=== Pros and cons === | === Pros and cons === | ||
| Line 123: | Line 133: | ||
'''Pros:''' | '''Pros:''' | ||
| − | * Has an optronic tracking system allowing targets to be tracked and providing a lead indicator | + | * Fastest turret traverse and incredibly quick gun elevation |
| − | * Optronic system cannot be detected by RWR on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for | + | * Has an optronic tracking system allowing targets to be tracked and providing a better lead indicator than radar |
| + | * Optronic system cannot be detected by RWR on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for user to snipe them, particularly with APDS | ||
* 550 RPM on the 25 mm guns, a combined 2200 RPM | * 550 RPM on the 25 mm guns, a combined 2200 RPM | ||
| − | * Two-axis stabilizer which is | + | * Two-axis stabilizer which works even when SIDAM is driving at its maximum speed |
| − | + | * APDS can penetrate 81 mm and is invisible, plenty to defend against enemy vehicles (once it is unlocked) | |
| − | * APDS can penetrate 81 mm, plenty to defend against enemy vehicles (once it is unlocked) | ||
'''Cons:''' | '''Cons:''' | ||
| Line 134: | Line 144: | ||
* Thin armour, very susceptible to overpressure | * Thin armour, very susceptible to overpressure | ||
* Relatively poor zoom/magnification, harder to spot small targets at range (especially scout helicopters) | * Relatively poor zoom/magnification, harder to spot small targets at range (especially scout helicopters) | ||
| + | * HE rounds have a rather short range before they self-destruct | ||
* APDS rounds are a tier 3 modification - until then, anti-armour work is not possible given the low penetration of the HE rounds | * APDS rounds are a tier 3 modification - until then, anti-armour work is not possible given the low penetration of the HE rounds | ||
* Can only carry 60 APDS rounds | * Can only carry 60 APDS rounds | ||
* Not very mobile compared to other tanks and SPAA at its rank, has a hard time scaling hills | * Not very mobile compared to other tanks and SPAA at its rank, has a hard time scaling hills | ||
| − | * No search radar - only optronic targeting, meaning | + | * No search radar - only optronic targeting, meaning user needs to have a visible target to lock on, and a clear line-of-sight to track it |
| − | |||
== History == | == History == | ||
Revision as of 20:50, 5 February 2024
| This page is about the Italian SPAA SIDAM 25. For the version equipped with Mistral SATCP missiles, see SIDAM 25 (Mistral). For other versions, see M113 (Family). |
Contents
Description
The SIDAM 25 is an Italian anti-air platform developed by OTO Melara during the Cold War. Based on the M113A1 platform, the SIDAM 25 was primarily designed to fulfill the short-range air defense needs of the Italian army. The Italian army initially showed interest in the OTOMATIC anti-air platform; however, due to factors such as cost, the SIDAM 25 was chosen instead. One of its main drawbacks was that it lacked a radar system unlike other anti-air platforms of the era. A total of 275 systems were ordered. In the late 2010s, the SIDAM 25 began to be phased out, with most units being used to arm the Freccia IFV with a 25 mm cannon.
Introduced in Update 1.85 "Supersonic", the SIDAM 25 is equipped with 4 x 25 mm Oerlikon KBA cannons able to fire both HEI-T* and APDS rounds. The high fire density of this SPAA allows it to destroy planes within seconds, often requiring only a few hits to bring down the target. The HEI-T rounds in the M792 belt contain a TNT equivalent of 54.4 grams in each projectile, with a high muzzle velocity of 1,100 m/s, making it easier to lead targets. However, the standard belts lack armour-penetrating rounds, so your maximum penetration remains at 3 mm until you unlock the M791 belt (APDS). Once the M791 belt is unlocked, defeating tanks becomes much easier, thanks to the 81 mm of penetration at 10 metres and a muzzle velocity of 1,345 m/s. The potential of the platform is however severely limited by the maximum capacity of 660 rounds (165 per gun). It is important to be very careful with your ammunition considering the fire rate and the small ammunition capacity, giving approximately 18 seconds of continuous fire. However, once your rounds hit their target, there is little that can survive. Helicopters and aircraft will be brought down with ease if you remain undetected. The platform's mobility is just sufficient to reach desired positions, but its large size makes it difficult to go unnoticed on the battlefield. The SIDAM 25 also lacks sufficient armour protection, as heavy machine guns can easily penetrate it. In conclusion, stay hidden and fire only when you see an opportunity to do so.
General info
Survivability and armour
Armour type:
- Aluminium Alloy 7039
- Structural steel
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | 38 mm (46°), 29 mm (46°) Front glacis 38 mm (25°) Lower glacis |
44 mm Top 32 mm Bottom |
38 mm (10°) | 38 mm (89°) Front 38 mm (89°) Rear |
| Turret | 38 mm (24°) Turret front 25 mm Gun mantlet |
25 mm (0°) | 25 mm | 25 mm (89°) |
Notes:
- Suspension wheels are 10 mm thick and tracks are 15 mm thick.
Mobility
| Game Mode | Max Speed (km/h) | Weight (tons) | Engine power (horsepower) | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Forward | Reverse | Stock | Upgraded | Stock | Upgraded | ||
| Arcade | 70 | 17 | 14.3 | 301 | 404 | 21.05 | 28.25 |
| Realistic | 65 | 15 | 188 | 212 | 13.15 | 14.83 | |
Modifications and economy
| Mobility | Protection | Firepower | ||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Main armament
The turret is the main selling point of the SIDAM 25.
It houses four 25 mm cannons which can only fire pure HE or pure APDS belts. The guns all fire at once and while the fire rate isn't as overwhelming as with ZSU-23-4 or other "suppressing fire" SPAA, it more than makes that up with the turret handling and shells.
It has the fastest turret rotation in the game, even stock it turns as fast as maxed out turret of the Chieftain Marksman with decent crew, and as it is maxed out it can do a 180 turn in less than a second. This allows the user to actually pull off "reactionary" playstyle without having to give up their entire attention span to the skies. Additionally, the guns are completely stabilised, so even if SPAA is running away from something or chasing a helicopter, there is no need to think about movement affecting accuracy.
Spread out gun formation allows to compensate for inaccurate aim and shell velocity. While it may seem like an overkill to a decent player, the jets more than deserve "overwhelming fire" policy, particularly in the future ranks. Unfortunately, the italian SPAA does not have as many shells as its peers, only carrying 660 of them at a maximum.
The HE shells fly at 1100 m/s speed, which is only a bit slower than 30-35 mm calibre shells and significantly faster than shells of the ZSU-23-4. Unfortunately, they will self-destruct at about 2.5 km range, so even with the tracker it is sometimes impossible to blow up the plane that is quickly leaving the premises (it will refuse to aim at the targets back past 2 km range), and some helicopters can be smart enough to avoid SPAA effective range. Since the tracker is absolutely accurate, it is rather easy to annihilate any aircraft that isn't changing their flight direction immediately. Any early helicopter unfortunate enough to appear within effective range of HE shells is probably going to be vaporized before they can even dodge, though it's not impossible.
The APDS shells do not have the range restrictions, have no tracers and fly at 1330 m/s speed. They can be used to either shred some annoying tank, or to suddenly tear apart exceptionally annoying aircraft. Since SIDAM 25 is completely accurate and does not trigger any warnings, a single tap of APDS will almost certainly scrap any passive aircraft. Unfortunately, the APDS belt is very limited - with only 60 APDS rounds available to fire, it is recommended to use them sparingly and only against light tanks/SPAA or high priority air targets.
| 25 mm Oerlikon KBA (x4) | Turret rotation speed (°/s) | Reloading rate (seconds) | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mode | Capacity (Belt) | Fire rate | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | Stock | Upgraded | Full | Expert | Aced | Stock | Full | Expert | Aced |
| Arcade | 660 (150) | 550 | -5°/+87° | ±180° | Two-plane | 105.7 | 146.3 | 177.6 | 196.4 | 208.9 | 1.30 | 1.15 | 1.06 | 1.00 |
| Realistic | 71.4 | 84.0 | 102.0 | 112.8 | 120.0 | |||||||||
Ammunition
| Penetration statistics | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm) | |||||
| 10 m | 100 m | 500 m | 1,000 m | 1,500 m | 2,000 m | ||
| M792 | HEI-T* | 7 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| M791 | APDS | 80 | 78 | 73 | 66 | 60 | 55 |
| Shell details | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Projectile mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
Ricochet | |||||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | ||||||||||
| M792 | HEI-T* | 1,100 | 0.19 | 0.1 | 0.1 | 54.4 | 79° | 80° | 81° | |||
| M791 | APDS | 1,330 | 0.13 | - | - | - | 75° | 78° | 80° | |||
Ammo racks
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|
| 8 | 0 (+8) | No |
Sensors
The SIDAM 25 is equipped with a 3JB10 optronic tracking system, with no search radar, so it needs to be manually locked on from the sniper seat. The tracking system does not trigger the radar warning receiver fitted to some helicopters and planes. The lock-on scope also will not wobble, like with the radars, providing better aim assist.
|
Although the tracker can track targets in an elevation range of -20°/+85° once locked on, it can be difficult to lock on to targets past +20° in elevation. Be patient! |
| 3JB10 - Optronic Tracking System | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Maximum Tracking Range |
Minimum Tracking Range |
Azimuth Tracking Angle |
Elevation Tracking Angle |
Minimum target speed |
| 5,000 m | 100 m | 360° | -20°/+85° (lock between -20°/+85°) |
1 m/s (3.6 km/h) |
Usage in battles
The SIDAM 25 can be quite deadly when used effectively thanks to its heavy anti-aircraft firepower and powerful, if limited, APDS rounds. The best way to play the SIDAM 25 is to play very defensively. Due to being based on the widespread M113 chassis, the SIDAM features mediocre mobility and small inclines will challenge it severely. It is best to stick to flat ground where your vehicle can be much easier to control. The SIDAM lacks effective armour protection, and nearly any round will penetrate you with ease. Artillery will also be able to pressure damage you so in that case you should try your best to move away and avoid getting hit by it in the first place.
In case any vehicles breach your defenses you do have access to a small amount of APDS rounds. These will shred light vehicles and can disable heavier ones with precise aim. The SIDAM 25's APDS can penetrate up to 81 mm of armour. Do keep in mind that the APDS is a tier 3 modification so you'll have to research it before having access to it. Use the APDS strictly for self-defense, as the low ammunition count and characteristics of the hull severely limit its offensive ability. You can negate the low APDS count by staying near a capture point for rapid resupply. If able, play around capture points to keep your ammunition supplied.
In the anti-air sector, the SIDAM 25 does not have access to a radar, unlike other nations' counterparts at the battle rating. What you do have access to however is an optronic tracking system, which allows targets to be tracked, and provides one of the most most accurate lead indicators for any vehicle. This will allow you to predict flight paths of any enemy air vehicles you'll be facing. Another great thing about the optronic system is that it cannot be detected by radar warning receivers on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for you to target them and hopefully take them out with a quick barrage of you main guns. Speaking of which, the SIDAM's main armament consists of 4 x 25 mm guns, with a combined firepower of 2200 rounds per minute; more than enough to deal with any aircraft foolish enough to fly directly at you. Even if they do not approach you directly or managed to surprise you, the turret can quickly snap in their direction to fire a lethal burst of APDS after them. Additionally, APDS can be used for stealthy assassinations of any long-range CAS, as long as you can actually spot them. You also have access to a two-plane stabilizer, which will furthermore aid you in firefights against both ground and air vehicles, as you don't really have to stay in one spot.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Fastest turret traverse and incredibly quick gun elevation
- Has an optronic tracking system allowing targets to be tracked and providing a better lead indicator than radar
- Optronic system cannot be detected by RWR on enemy aircraft, making it much easier for user to snipe them, particularly with APDS
- 550 RPM on the 25 mm guns, a combined 2200 RPM
- Two-axis stabilizer which works even when SIDAM is driving at its maximum speed
- APDS can penetrate 81 mm and is invisible, plenty to defend against enemy vehicles (once it is unlocked)
Cons:
- Thin armour, very susceptible to overpressure
- Relatively poor zoom/magnification, harder to spot small targets at range (especially scout helicopters)
- HE rounds have a rather short range before they self-destruct
- APDS rounds are a tier 3 modification - until then, anti-armour work is not possible given the low penetration of the HE rounds
- Can only carry 60 APDS rounds
- Not very mobile compared to other tanks and SPAA at its rank, has a hard time scaling hills
- No search radar - only optronic targeting, meaning user needs to have a visible target to lock on, and a clear line-of-sight to track it
History
The SIDAM 25 was made during the Cold War (the SIDAM system started in about 1980 and first two prototypes were trialed in 1983), Italy wanted to find a suitable anti-air vehicle that would be on par with the Soviet Union's and Warsaw Pact, as well as NATO vehicles such as the German Gepard and the American M163 VADS. Its primary goal was to take out out low flying aircraft but it was provided a secondary capability against lightly armoured targets thanks to the types of ammunition it had access to, such as APDS, HEI and SAPHEI. There had been some contenders on what the next anti air vehicle would be, but the Italian Ministry of defense ended up supporting the SIDAM 25 and started to place orders for the vehicle.
The SIDAM 25 would be based on the American M113 chassis then built under license, mainly it was chosen as it had local production and allowed for a cheap supply of parts and easy maintenance and training. However, to carry the impressive quad system, a large array of modifications had to be carried out including the removal of the single fuel tank replaced with twin tanks either side of the new engine and updated suspension to cope with the increased weight. Although to the outsiders it may look like a decent SPAA (which it is in a way, on a good day), but the actual production version lacked radar and any form of night vision/thermal vision. The SIDAM 25 was advertised at the time to be able to utilize night vision and thermal vision, however there was an issue, cost. The SIDAM 25 project ended up costing Italy too much, so they had to remove things from the actual prototypes such as night vision and the thermal imaging, it ended up having an entirely different turret (the one currently in game). In retrospect Italy could've acquired the OTOMATIC with that money, which although it would lead to less units, it would've been great if they went for quality over quantity.
Sadly the SIDAM 25 lived a short life, in total 276 of such systems were produced from 1985, they'd slowly be taken out of active service and put in storage. Most of them have been used for its main armament, and installed onto the Italian army 'Freccia IFV' which uses the same 25 mm the SIDAM once used. The SIDAM 25 would only ever be exported to a private military collector in Belgium, in an estimated 40 units. There was also plans on installing the SIDAM quad mount on another OTO-Melara project, the C-13, however due to political reasons that would not end up happening. In terms of SIDAM upgrades, modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994. The Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Matra Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole. Sadly, the Mistral program which aimed to upgrade the Italian SIDAMs would not be picked up.
Media
- Skins
See also
External links
- https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/543261-sidam-25/
- https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/486514-sidam-25-and-sidam-25-mistral/
| OTO Melara | |
|---|---|
| Light Tanks/IFVs | |
| Centauro | Centauro I 105 · Centauro I 105 R · Centauro I 120 · VRCC |
| Dardo | Dardo · VCC-80/30 · VCC-80/60 |
| Other | C13 T90 · R3 T106 FA |
| MBTs | |
| OF-40 | OF-40 · OF-40 Mk.2A · OF-40 (MTCA) |
| Ariete | Ariete (P) · Ariete · Ariete PSO · Ariete AMV |
| Other | M47 (105/55) |
| Tank Destroyers | M113A1 (TOW) |
| SPAA | R3 T20 FA-HS · SIDAM 25 · SIDAM 25 (Mistral) · OTOMATIC |
| Patrol Boats | |
| Sparviero-class | Sparviero* |
| See Also | OTO |
| *Built by OTO Melara in La Spezia under the Alinavi S.p.A. consortium | |
| Italy anti-aircraft vehicles | |
|---|---|
| R3 Capraia | R3 T20 FA-HS |
| SIDAM 25 | SIDAM 25 · SIDAM 25 (Mistral) |
| Wheeled | AS 42 · CM52 |
| Tracked | M42 Contraereo · Leopard 40/70 · OTOMATIC |
| Hungary | ◔ZSU-57-2 · ◔ZSU-23-4 |
