Difference between revisions of "AMX-50 Foch"
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== Description == | == Description == | ||
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | ||
| − | The | + | The AMX-50 Heavy Tank was quite powerful, but DEFA wanted to procure a heavier 120mm self-propelled gun, however, problems soon started to appear. The weight was the main factor that hampered the development of the vehicle since the speed was deemed too low. In the end, the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch was developed, named after Marshal Ferdinand Foch. Doctrinally, the AMX-50 Foch was supposed to provide long-range support to the regular AMX-50 tanks, there were plans to upgrade the vehicle with a 155mm cannon but the project was never seriously pursued. |
| + | |||
| + | It was introduced in [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]] along with the initial French ground tree. The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is quite a sturdy tank destroyer, it has enough armour to withstand regular APHE and AP projectiles, except for APCR and HEAT-FS, which start to be more common around its BR. It is not the fastest or most agile tank destroyer in the game, but for its size, is quite agile, but since it uses a fixed gun and not a turret, it is more susceptible to flanking manoeuvres by lighter vehicles armed with autocannons or recoilless rifles. Overall, the tank features a powerful gun capable of dealing with anything at its BR, and has enough armour to deal with late WWII vehicles, although it suffers against early Cold War designs such as the T-54 and the M48. | ||
== General info == | == General info == | ||
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<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' --> | <!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' --> | ||
| − | The AMX-50 Foch is able to withstand every single round it faces in combat except HEATFS and 105 mm APCR sub-calibre shots frontally. It is often confused with the [[CA Lorraine]] and vice-versa due to its similarities in profile, size and frontal plate. For the same reason, people may think you are fragile yet you are one of the toughest armour to crack at the battle rating. | + | The AMX-50 Foch is able to withstand every single round it faces in combat except HEATFS and 105 mm APCR sub-calibre shots frontally. It is often confused with the [[CA Lorraine]] and vice-versa due to its similarities in profile, size and frontal plate. For the same reason, people may think you are fragile yet you are one of the toughest armour to crack at the battle rating. Only the front is the strong section of the tank. Roof, rear and sides are the most vulnerable places of the tank, even for 20 mm autocannons. |
Regarding crew compartment, despite being not too tight but not huge either, it has a high survivability specially for the number of crew members and the huge breech of the 120 mm cannon (they will most likely destroy your breech with a side shot but it will stop most of the spalling). The ammunition is located at the rear of the crew compartment (in front of engine deck) an at the hull sides. This makes the Foch one of the easiest tanks to ammo rack at the battle rating. The tank has a crew amount of 5 crewmen: driver, gunner, commander and two loaders, one of them is the machine gunner | Regarding crew compartment, despite being not too tight but not huge either, it has a high survivability specially for the number of crew members and the huge breech of the 120 mm cannon (they will most likely destroy your breech with a side shot but it will stop most of the spalling). The ammunition is located at the rear of the crew compartment (in front of engine deck) an at the hull sides. This makes the Foch one of the easiest tanks to ammo rack at the battle rating. The tank has a crew amount of 5 crewmen: driver, gunner, commander and two loaders, one of them is the machine gunner | ||
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| Hull || 180mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 100 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm ''Gun mantlet'' || 40 mm (15°) ''Top'' <br> 40 mm ''Bottom'' || 40 mm ''Top'' <br> 40 mm (40°) ''Bottom'' || 30 mm ''Fighting compartment'' <br> 20 mm ''Engine deck'' <br> 90 mm ''Gun mantlet'' | | Hull || 180mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 100 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm ''Gun mantlet'' || 40 mm (15°) ''Top'' <br> 40 mm ''Bottom'' || 40 mm ''Top'' <br> 40 mm (40°) ''Bottom'' || 30 mm ''Fighting compartment'' <br> 20 mm ''Engine deck'' <br> 90 mm ''Gun mantlet'' | ||
|- | |- | ||
| − | + | | Cupola || 200 mm || 30 mm || 30 mm || 30 mm | |
| − | |||
| − | | Cupola || 200 mm | ||
|- | |- | ||
|} | |} | ||
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==== Ammunition ==== | ==== Ammunition ==== | ||
| − | ''APBC:'' This is the first and only anti-tank ammunition the AMX-50 Foch. Despite having a "low" penetration (compared to other rounds seen at the battle rating) it should not be underestimated. It has the penetration to deal with all heavy tanks frontally (with exception of Maus and E-100) as well as enough spalling to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. This round is a 90% confirmed | + | ''APBC:'' This is the first and only anti-tank ammunition the AMX-50 Foch. Despite having a "low" penetration (compared to other rounds seen at the battle rating) it should not be underestimated. It has the penetration to deal with all heavy tanks frontally (with exception of Maus and E-100) as well as enough spalling to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. This round is a 90% confirmed knock-out with a single shot due to its tremendous mass. |
| − | { | + | {{:SA46 (120 mm)/Ammunition|120 mm Obus de rupture, 120 mm Obus explosif}} |
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| − | | 120 mm Obus de rupture | ||
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==== [[Ammo racks]] ==== | ==== [[Ammo racks]] ==== | ||
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|} | |} | ||
| + | '''Note''': | ||
| − | Right side empty: 19 (+29) | + | * Right side empty: 19 (+29) shells. |
=== Machine guns === | === Machine guns === | ||
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* Immediate ground defence: this machine gun is able to damage and destroyed external components of all tanks (tracks, gun barrels, etc), destroy lightly armoured vehicles (with armour thinner than 45 mm), obstruction removal (fences, walls, etc) and spotting. | * Immediate ground defence: this machine gun is able to damage and destroyed external components of all tanks (tracks, gun barrels, etc), destroy lightly armoured vehicles (with armour thinner than 45 mm), obstruction removal (fences, walls, etc) and spotting. | ||
| − | * Immediate air defence: due to being roof mounted inside a cupola with a 360° rotation and a 20° elevation, it is able to critically damage low-flying aircraft. This | + | * Immediate air defence: due to being roof mounted inside a cupola with a 360° rotation and a 20° elevation, it is able to critically damage low-flying aircraft. This belt has AP-I round which can cause fatal damage on all low flying aircraft (it often lights them on fire or damages their engine). |
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%" | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%" | ||
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'''Pros:''' | '''Pros:''' | ||
| − | * | + | * Great upper glacis armour against kinetic shells |
| − | * | + | * Good forward and reverse speed, plus neutral steering |
| + | * 120 mm gun has high penetration and immense spalling | ||
| + | * Rangefinder logs range very quickly | ||
* Has a 15 mm MG 151 on the top in its own turret | * Has a 15 mm MG 151 on the top in its own turret | ||
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'''Cons:''' | '''Cons:''' | ||
| − | * | + | * Very thin side armour, vulnerable to flanking |
| − | * | + | * Rangefinder and gun mantlet are weak spots, allowing APHE shells to destroy the Foch with a well-placed shot |
| + | * Long reload time | ||
* Limited ammo choices | * Limited ammo choices | ||
| − | + | * AP might have a hard time knocking out some opponents from the side | |
| − | * AP | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
* MG 151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation | * MG 151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation | ||
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| − | |||
== History == | == History == | ||
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | ||
| − | During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX-50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 | + | During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX-50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 km/h speed. Due to the delays and problems encountered during construction, only five prototypes were constructed and only one was finished which became known as the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch, named after the supreme allied commander during World War I, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, general and military theorist. The main purpose of the AMX-50 "120 mm" was to provide long-range support for the medium AMX-50 "100 mm" tanks. An ambitious task of designing a version with a 155 mm cannon was started, however, this never made it past the drawing stage. |
== Media == | == Media == | ||
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== See also == | == See also == | ||
| − | ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:'' | + | <!-- ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:'' |
| + | * ''reference to the series of the vehicles;'' | ||
| + | * ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' --> | ||
| − | * | + | * [[Object 268]] |
| − | |||
== External links == | == External links == | ||
Latest revision as of 05:01, 13 November 2024
| This page is about the French tank destroyer AMX-50 Foch. For other versions, see AMX-50 (Family). |
Contents
Description
The AMX-50 Heavy Tank was quite powerful, but DEFA wanted to procure a heavier 120mm self-propelled gun, however, problems soon started to appear. The weight was the main factor that hampered the development of the vehicle since the speed was deemed too low. In the end, the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch was developed, named after Marshal Ferdinand Foch. Doctrinally, the AMX-50 Foch was supposed to provide long-range support to the regular AMX-50 tanks, there were plans to upgrade the vehicle with a 155mm cannon but the project was never seriously pursued.
It was introduced in Update 1.75 "La Résistance" along with the initial French ground tree. The Canon automoteur AMX-50 Foch is quite a sturdy tank destroyer, it has enough armour to withstand regular APHE and AP projectiles, except for APCR and HEAT-FS, which start to be more common around its BR. It is not the fastest or most agile tank destroyer in the game, but for its size, is quite agile, but since it uses a fixed gun and not a turret, it is more susceptible to flanking manoeuvres by lighter vehicles armed with autocannons or recoilless rifles. Overall, the tank features a powerful gun capable of dealing with anything at its BR, and has enough armour to deal with late WWII vehicles, although it suffers against early Cold War designs such as the T-54 and the M48.
General info
Survivability and armour
The AMX-50 Foch is able to withstand every single round it faces in combat except HEATFS and 105 mm APCR sub-calibre shots frontally. It is often confused with the CA Lorraine and vice-versa due to its similarities in profile, size and frontal plate. For the same reason, people may think you are fragile yet you are one of the toughest armour to crack at the battle rating. Only the front is the strong section of the tank. Roof, rear and sides are the most vulnerable places of the tank, even for 20 mm autocannons.
Regarding crew compartment, despite being not too tight but not huge either, it has a high survivability specially for the number of crew members and the huge breech of the 120 mm cannon (they will most likely destroy your breech with a side shot but it will stop most of the spalling). The ammunition is located at the rear of the crew compartment (in front of engine deck) an at the hull sides. This makes the Foch one of the easiest tanks to ammo rack at the battle rating. The tank has a crew amount of 5 crewmen: driver, gunner, commander and two loaders, one of them is the machine gunner
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | 180mm (55°) Front glacis 100 mm (60°) Lower glacis 180-300 (0-72°) + 180 mm Gun mantlet |
40 mm (15°) Top 40 mm Bottom |
40 mm Top 40 mm (40°) Bottom |
30 mm Fighting compartment 20 mm Engine deck 90 mm Gun mantlet |
| Cupola | 200 mm | 30 mm | 30 mm | 30 mm |
Notes:
- Suspension wheels and tracks are both 20 mm thick.
- Road wheels are interleaved and provide cumulative protection for the lower side hull.
Mobility
| Game Mode | Max Speed (km/h) | Weight (tons) | Engine power (horsepower) | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Forward | Reverse | Stock | Upgraded | Stock | Upgraded | ||
| Arcade | 56 | 21 | 59.5 | 1,420 | 1,908 | 23.87 | 32.07 |
| Realistic | 52 | 20 | 884 | 1,000 | 14.86 | 16.81 | |
The AMX-50 Foch is not as fast as compared with other turretless tank destroyers as the JPz 4-5 but not as slow as the Jagdtiger. Despite being huge, it is absurdly fast and agile for a tank its size due to being mounted on an AMX-50 chassis but with stronger armour than the Jagdtiger. As the rest of the French tanks, it has excellent neutral steering but the reverse speed is horrible. It is compensated with a tremendous horsepower and armour as well as a potent main gun. It should not be played as fast as the JPz 4-5 as well as risky but it should not be fully played as bastion defence.
Modifications and economy
| Mobility | Protection | Firepower | ||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Main armament
The AMX-50 Foch can be considered as a hybrid between the CA Lorraine and the AMX-50 Surbaisse: it shares the height of the Lorraine but mobility and the firepower of the AMX-50 Surbaisse. The gun has a use and ballistic similar to the Surbaisse (both share the same ammunition).
| 120 mm SA46 | Turret rotation speed (°/s) | Reloading rate (seconds) | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mode | Capacity | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | Stock | Upgraded | Full | Expert | Aced | Stock | Full | Expert | Aced |
| Arcade | 48 | -6°/+17° | ±9° | N/A | 5.3 | 7.3 | 8.9 | 9.8 | 10.5 | 19.37 | 17.14 | 15.79 | 14.90 |
| Realistic | 3.6 | 4.2 | 5.1 | 5.6 | 6.0 | ||||||||
Ammunition
APBC: This is the first and only anti-tank ammunition the AMX-50 Foch. Despite having a "low" penetration (compared to other rounds seen at the battle rating) it should not be underestimated. It has the penetration to deal with all heavy tanks frontally (with exception of Maus and E-100) as well as enough spalling to destroy lightly armoured vehicles. This round is a 90% confirmed knock-out with a single shot due to its tremendous mass.
| Penetration statistics | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm) | |||||
| 10 m | 100 m | 500 m | 1,000 m | 1,500 m | 2,000 m | ||
| 120 mm Obus de rupture | APBC | 301 | 298 | 286 | 272 | 258 | 245 |
| 120 mm Obus explosif | HE | 39 | 39 | 39 | 39 | 39 | 39 |
| Shell details | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Projectile mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive mass (TNT equivalent) (kg) |
Ricochet | |||||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | ||||||||||
| 120 mm Obus de rupture | APBC | 1,067 | 23.1 | - | - | - | 47° | 60° | 65° | |||
| 120 mm Obus explosif | HE | 762 | 22.84 | 0 | 0.1 | 4.65 | 79° | 80° | 81° | |||
Ammo racks
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
2nd rack empty |
3rd rack empty |
4th rack empty |
5th rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 48 | 43 (+5) | 31 (+17) | 19 (+29) | 5 (+43) | 1 (+47) | Yes |
Note:
- Right side empty: 19 (+29) shells.
Machine guns
The MG151 can be considered as one of the most reliable HMG (Heavy Machine Gun) in game due to multiple factors: ammunition capacity, muzzle velocity and penetration, stopping power and rate of fire. It is a Jack-of-all-trades when it comes to ground battles, it has a faster muzzle velocity than 20 mm cannons but has more destructive power than the 14.5 mm (Russian HMG calibre) machine gun but it overheats really fast. The MG151 is almost exclusive to this specific tank and is able of doing multiple things:
- Immediate ground defence: this machine gun is able to damage and destroyed external components of all tanks (tracks, gun barrels, etc), destroy lightly armoured vehicles (with armour thinner than 45 mm), obstruction removal (fences, walls, etc) and spotting.
- Immediate air defence: due to being roof mounted inside a cupola with a 360° rotation and a 20° elevation, it is able to critically damage low-flying aircraft. This belt has AP-I round which can cause fatal damage on all low flying aircraft (it often lights them on fire or damages their engine).
| 15 mm MG 151 | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mount | Capacity (Belt) | Fire rate | Vertical | Horizontal |
| Cupola turret | 500 (500) | 700 | -3°/+20° | -35°/+160° |
Usage in battles
The AMX-50 Foch does well in concealment, and so the first thing to do upon spawning onto the battlefield is to find a place where the AMX-50 Foch can hide while having a good arc of fire against incoming enemies. Do this to minimise the weak points of the vehicle, such as the weak side armour and the long reload time. If the enemy sees only the front armour, it should be fine given the thick, sloped armour available, but do take note on the type of enemy encountered.
If a Leopard I tank or anything else with HEAT shells notice the AMX-50 Foch's position, immediately move as these vehicles can very easily penetrate the AMX-50 Foch's frontal armour. However, encountering tanks with only standard AP shells like a Tiger II should suffice as they would have a harder time penetrating through the front of the AMX-50 Foch.
Being patient is key to the success of the AMX-50 Foch. Going out and hunting enemies, especially in close-range fights, is not beneficial to a long-term survival strategy in the AMX-50 Foch, especially with the weak side armour.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Great upper glacis armour against kinetic shells
- Good forward and reverse speed, plus neutral steering
- 120 mm gun has high penetration and immense spalling
- Rangefinder logs range very quickly
- Has a 15 mm MG 151 on the top in its own turret
Cons:
- Very thin side armour, vulnerable to flanking
- Rangefinder and gun mantlet are weak spots, allowing APHE shells to destroy the Foch with a well-placed shot
- Long reload time
- Limited ammo choices
- AP might have a hard time knocking out some opponents from the side
- MG 151 jams quickly, turns slowly and has a very limited firing arc and elevation
History
During the early 1950s, DEFA worked to produce the third version of the AMX-50 heavy tank which featured a 120 mm self-propelled gun, however, during upgrades weight became a factor severely hampering the speed of the vehicle. 1955 saw a team of seventy German engineers brought in to help solve the problem maintaining the 120 mm cannon plus have the necessary armour and maintain a 65 km/h speed. Due to the delays and problems encountered during construction, only five prototypes were constructed and only one was finished which became known as the Canon Automoteur AMX-50 Foch, named after the supreme allied commander during World War I, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, general and military theorist. The main purpose of the AMX-50 "120 mm" was to provide long-range support for the medium AMX-50 "100 mm" tanks. An ambitious task of designing a version with a 155 mm cannon was started, however, this never made it past the drawing stage.
Media
- Skins
- Videos
See also
External links
| Ateliers de construction d'Issy-les-Moulineaux (AMX) | |
|---|---|
| Light tanks | |
| AMX-13 | AMX-13-M24 · AMX-13 (FL11) · AMX-13 · AMX-13 (SS.11) · AMX-13-90 · AMX-13 (HOT) |
| Armoured cars | AMX-10RC |
| Medium tanks | AMX M4 · AMX-50 (TOA100) |
| MBTs | |
| AMX-30 | AMX-30 · AMX-30 ACRA · AMX-30 (1972) · AMX-30B2 · AMX-30B2 BRENUS · AMX-30 Super |
| AMX-32/40 | AMX-32 (105) · AMX-32 · AMX-40 |
| Heavy tanks | AMX-50 Surbaissé · AMX-50 Surblindé |
| Tank destroyers | ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch |
| SPAAGs | AMX-13 DCA 40 · AMX-30 S DCA |
| Export | AMX-13 |
| France tank destroyers | |
|---|---|
| Lorraine 40t derivatives | CA Lorraine · Lorraine 155 Mle.50 |
| ATGM | MEPHISTO · AMX-10M |
| Other | AMR.35 ZT3 · Lorraine 37L · SAu 40 · ARL-44 · ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch · AuF1 |
| USA | ▄M10 GMC · ▄M36B2 |
