Difference between revisions of "B17B"

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{{Specs-Card|code=saab_b17b}}
 
 
{{About
 
{{About
 
| about = Swedish bomber '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
 
| about = Swedish bomber '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
−
| usage = other version
+
| usage = other versions
−
| link = B17A
+
| link = B17 (Family)
 
}}
 
}}
 +
{{Specs-Card
 +
|code=saab_b17b
 +
|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
 +
|cockpit=cockpit_saab_b17b.jpg
 +
}}
 +
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
−
<!--''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.''-->
+
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
−
[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
+
In the late 1930s, the Swedish Air Force was looking to replace their ageing Fokker S 6 biplane reconnaissance aircraft with a newer aircraft. Work began by ASJA and was designated as the L 10, however in 1939 after merging with Saab, the designation was changed to '''Saab 17'''. Though only serving for a few short years with the Swedish Air Force due to the advent of turbojet aircraft, the {{PAGENAME}} continued to serve with other countries for another 20 years. The design had many variations, but the B17B was the second upgrade for the B17, following the B17A. The most important upgrade was the replacement of the old engine with a SFA-built Bristol Mercury XXIV radial engine. The B17B was also used as a basis for the [[S17BS]].
−
{{break}}
 
−
The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a rank {{Specs|rank}} Swedish fighter {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.95 "Northern Wind"]].
 
−
 
 
−
In the late 1930s, the Swedish Air Force was looking to replace their ageing Fokker S 6 biplane reconnaissance aircraft with a newer aircraft. Work began by Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar and was designated as the L 10, however in 1939 after merging with Saab, the designation was changed to Saab 17. Updated requirements required the reinforcing of the wings to be able to utilise the aircraft as a dive bomber though further modifications were necessary to ensure clearance of bombs mounted on the underside of the fuselage so they would clear the propeller arc when dropped during a dive.
 
−
 
 
−
Though only serving for a few short years with the Swedish Air Force due to the advent of turbojet aircraft, the {{PAGENAME}} continued to serve with other countries for another 20 years. In War Thunder, this bomber featuring a Swedish license-built Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engine can hustle to its target (though not faster than many fighters it will face), but diving towards the ground and making a b-line for the target will ensure you get there as fast as possible. Sometimes making a bit of a wide arc along the sides of the map will ensure fighters will ignore you until they start seeing you blow up a bunch of ground targets and become a threat to their side winning.
 
  
−
It often happens in the early rank matches of the game where the smaller bombers such as the {{PAGENAME}} can decisively win the match by taking out all of the ground targets. Some pilots become known for effectively eliminating ground targets with their light bombers in so much that at the beginning of the match and after every respawn, they are immediately targeted for elimination to prevent the match from quickly ending in the enemies favour.
+
Introduced in [[Update 1.95 "Northern Wind"]], this bomber featuring a Swedish license-built Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engine can hustle to its target (though not faster than many fighters it will face), but diving towards the ground and making a beeline for the target will ensure you get there as fast as possible. Sometimes making a bit of a wide arc along the sides of the map will ensure fighters will ignore you until they start seeing you blow up a bunch of ground targets and become a threat to their side winning. It has a reasonable payload and excels as a ground attacker, in air RB is very useful against light pillboxes and columns of tanks, meanwhile in ground RB the larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are more suited to destroy player controlled vehicles.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Flight performance ===
 
=== Flight performance ===
−
<!--''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.''-->
+
{{Specs-Avia-Flight}}
 +
<!-- ''Describe how the aircraft behaves in the air. Speed, manoeuvrability, acceleration and allowable loads - these are the most important characteristics of the vehicle.'' -->
  
 
The {{PAGENAME}} is relatively manoeuvrable aircraft for a light bomber, especially when loaded down with ordnance. Though it will not turn fight very well, it will not be as stiff as some find medium and heavy bombers to be. Through the use of flaps and extension of landing gear to act as a speed brake, pilots will find that the {{PAGENAME}} can be effectively used to bomb columns of vehicles or other targets of choice found on the map.
 
The {{PAGENAME}} is relatively manoeuvrable aircraft for a light bomber, especially when loaded down with ordnance. Though it will not turn fight very well, it will not be as stiff as some find medium and heavy bombers to be. Through the use of flaps and extension of landing gear to act as a speed brake, pilots will find that the {{PAGENAME}} can be effectively used to bomb columns of vehicles or other targets of choice found on the map.
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When using smaller bomb types, it is best to use this aircraft as a low-altitude bomber as trying to use it at mid or high altitude, the AI vehicles will tend to be able to easily avoid the bombs. Also, the smaller bombs tend to do piddly damage against bases, but when working with other bombers every little bit helps.
 
When using smaller bomb types, it is best to use this aircraft as a low-altitude bomber as trying to use it at mid or high altitude, the AI vehicles will tend to be able to easily avoid the bombs. Also, the smaller bombs tend to do piddly damage against bases, but when working with other bombers every little bit helps.
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="70%"
−
|-
+
! rowspan="2" | Characteristics
−
! colspan="8" | Characteristics
+
! colspan="2" | Max Speed<br>(km/h at 3,900 m)
−
|-
+
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude<br>(metres)
−
! colspan="8" | ''Stock''
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="2" | Max Speed<br>(km/h at ?,??? m)
 
−
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude<br>(meters)
 
 
! colspan="2" | Turn time<br>(seconds)
 
! colspan="2" | Turn time<br>(seconds)
−
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb<br>(meters/second)
+
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb<br>(metres/second)
−
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run<br>(meters)
+
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run<br>(metres)
−
|-
 
−
! AB
 
−
! RB
 
−
! AB
 
−
! RB
 
−
! AB
 
−
! RB
 
−
|-
 
−
| ??? || ??? || {{Specs|ceiling}} || ??.? || ??.? || ?.? || ?.? || ???
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="8" | ''Upgraded''
+
! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB !! AB !! RB
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="2" | Max Speed<br>(km/h at ?,??? m)
+
! Stock
−
! rowspan="2" | Max altitude<br>(meters)
+
| 373 || 363 || rowspan="2" | {{Specs|ceiling}} || 21.2 || 22.1 || 4.3 || 4.1 || rowspan="2" | 450
−
! colspan="2" | Turn time<br>(seconds)
 
−
! colspan="2" | Rate of climb<br>(meters/second)
 
−
! rowspan="2" | Take-off run<br>(meters)
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
! AB
+
! Upgraded
−
! RB
+
| 420 || 395 || 18.9 || 20.0 || 8.5 || 6.0
−
! AB
 
−
! RB
 
−
! AB
 
−
! RB
 
−
|-
 
−
|420||395|| {{Specs|ceiling}} ||18.9||20.0||8.5||6.0||450
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
==== Details ====
 
==== Details ====
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 
|-
 
|-
 
! colspan="5" | Features
 
! colspan="5" | Features
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Combat flaps
+
! Combat flaps !! Take-off flaps !! Landing flaps !! Air brakes !! Arrestor gear
−
! Take-off flaps
 
−
! Landing flaps
 
−
! Air brakes
 
−
! Arrestor gear
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| X || X || X || X || X    <!-- ✓ -->
+
| ✓ || ✓ || ✓ || X || X    <!-- ✓ -->
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="5" | Limits
+
! colspan="7" | Limits
 
|-
 
|-
−
! rowspan="2" | Wing-break speed<br>(km/h)
+
! rowspan="2" | Wings (km/h)
−
! rowspan="2" | Gear limit<br>(km/h)
+
! rowspan="2" | Gear (km/h)
−
! rowspan="2" | Combat flaps<br>(km/h)
+
! colspan="3" | Flaps (km/h)
 
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
 
! colspan="2" | Max Static G
 
|-
 
|-
−
! +
+
! Combat !! Take-off !! Landing !! + !! -
−
! -
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| {{Specs|destruction|constructions}} || {{Specs|destruction|chassis}} || ??? || ~?? || ~??
+
| {{Specs|destruction|body}} || {{Specs|destruction|gear}} || 386 || 369 || 280 || ~11 || ~7
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
[[File:B17 Armour Plates.png|450px|thumb|right|Protective components found in the '''{{PAGENAME}}'''.]]
 
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities
 
−
|-
 
−
! Ailerons<br>(km/h)
 
−
! Rudder<br>(km/h)
 
−
! Elevators<br>(km/h)
 
−
! Radiator<br>(km/h)
 
−
|-
 
−
| < ??? || < ??? || < ??? || > ???
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="3" | Compressor (RB/SB)
+
! colspan="4" | Optimal velocities (km/h)
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="3" | Setting 1
+
! Ailerons !! Rudder !! Elevators !! Radiator
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Optimal altitude
+
| < 300 || < 310 || < 320 || > 320
−
! 100% Engine power
 
−
! WEP Engine power
 
−
|-
 
−
| ?,??? m || ??? hp || N/A
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
−
<!--''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.''-->
+
{{Specs-Avia-Armour}}
 +
<!-- ''Examine the survivability of the aircraft. Note how vulnerable the structure is and how secure the pilot is, whether the fuel tanks are armoured, etc. Describe the armour, if there is any, and also mention the vulnerability of other critical aircraft systems.'' -->
 +
[[File:B17 Armour Plates.png|450px|thumb|right|Protective components found in the '''{{PAGENAME}}'''.]]
  
−
* 10 mm steel - Pilot's seatback
+
* 10 mm steel - Pilot's seat backrest
 
* 10 mm steel - Gunner rear protective plate
 
* 10 mm steel - Gunner rear protective plate
 +
 +
=== Modifications and economy ===
 +
{{Specs-Economy}}
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
 +
{{Specs-Avia-Armaments}}
 
=== Offensive armament ===
 
=== Offensive armament ===
−
<!--''Describe the offensive armament of the aircraft, if any. Describe how effective the cannons and machine guns are in a battle, and also what belts or drums are better to use. If there is no offensive weaponry, delete this subsection.''-->
+
{{Specs-Avia-Offensive}}
 +
<!-- ''Describe the offensive armament of the aircraft, if any. Describe how effective the cannons and machine guns are in a battle, and also what belts or drums are better to use. If there is no offensive weaponry, delete this subsection.'' -->
 
{{main|Ksp m/22 Fh (8 mm)|Ksp m/22 Fv (8 mm)}}
 
{{main|Ksp m/22 Fh (8 mm)|Ksp m/22 Fv (8 mm)}}
  
 
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
 
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is armed with:
  
−
* 1 x Ksp m/22 Fh machine gun (500 RPG)
+
* 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fh machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)
−
* 1 x Ksp m/22 Fv machine gun (500 RPG)
+
* 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fv machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)
  
−
The Swedish Air Force chose to outfit the {{PAGENAME}} with license-built copies of the Browning M1919 machine gun, however originally was calibrated for 6.5 mm however this round was found to be less effective against fabric-covered aircraft and so the gun was recalibrated up to 8 mm. The Swedish variant is listed as the Ksp m/22 machine gun of which two were mounted on this bomber with a gun in each wing. To be of really any use to the pilot either in aerial combat (if forced into it) or during ground attack, convergence must be set preferably in a range of 250 m - 400 m for best results especially with ground attack as this will allow firing capability on ground targets with ample room to manoeuvre without fear of crashing into the ground.
+
The Swedish Air Force chose to outfit the {{PAGENAME}} with license-built copies of the Browning M1919 machine gun, which originally was calibrated for 6.5 mm however this round was found to be less effective against fabric-covered aircraft and so the gun was recalibrated up to 8 mm. The Swedish variant is listed as the Ksp m/22 machine gun of which two were mounted on this bomber with a gun in each wing. To be of any real use to the pilot either in aerial combat (if forced into it) or during ground attack, convergence must be set preferably in a range of 250 m - 400 m for best results especially with ground attack as this will allow firing capability on ground targets with ample room to manoeuvre without fear of crashing into the ground.
  
 
=== Suspended armament ===
 
=== Suspended armament ===
−
<!--''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.''-->
+
{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}}
−
{{main|m/40 (120 kg)|m/42 (50 kg)}}
+
<!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' -->
 +
 
 +
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 +
|-
 +
! !! width="15%" | 1 !! width="15%" | 2 !! width="15%" | 3
 +
| rowspan="3" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_B17A.png]]</div>
 +
|-
 +
! [[sb m/42 (50 kg)|50 kg sb m/42]] bombs
 +
| 2 || 5 || 2
 +
|-
 +
! [[mb m/40 (250 kg)|250 kg mb m/40]] bombs
 +
| || 1 ||
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
−
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following suspended ordnance:
+
{{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}}
 +
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
  
−
* 9 x m/42 50 kg bombs (450 kg total)
+
* 9 x 50 kg sb m/42 bombs (450 kg total)
−
* 1 x 120 kg m/40 bomb (120 kg total)
+
* 1 x 250 kg mb m/40 bomb (250 kg total)
−
* 1 x 120 kg m/40 bomb + 4 x 50 kg m/42 bomb (320 kg total)
+
{{Navigation-End}}
  
−
While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] or the massive Farman [[F.222.2]] and it's 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the [[Awards|awards]] "Antimech", "Heavy Metal Fury" or "Thunderer" to name a few.
+
While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] or the massive Farman [[F.222.2]] and its 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the [[Awards]] "Antimech", "Heavy Metal Fury" or "Thunderer", just to name a few.
  
 
Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others.
 
Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others.
  
 
=== Defensive armament ===
 
=== Defensive armament ===
−
<!--''Defensive armament with turret machine guns or cannons, crewed by gunners. Examine the number of gunners and what belts or drums are better to use. If defensive weaponry is not available, remove this subsection.''-->
+
{{Specs-Avia-Defensive}}
 +
<!-- ''Defensive armament with turret machine guns or cannons, crewed by gunners. Examine the number of gunners and what belts or drums are better to use. If defensive weaponry is not available, remove this subsection.'' -->
 
{{main|Ksp m/22-37 R (8 mm)}}
 
{{main|Ksp m/22-37 R (8 mm)}}
  
−
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is outfitted with the following defensive weapon:
+
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' is defended by:
  
−
* 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22-37 R machine gun (300 RPG)
+
* 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22-37 R machine gun, dorsal turret (300 rpg)
  
−
This single pivotable 8 mm machine gun is mostly a last resort defence weapon. With the limited range of motion and its blind spot directly to the rear (vertical stabilizer blind spot), the pilot will need to "wag" the tail of the aircraft to ensure the gunner can engage any trailing fighters. The entire bottom of the bomber is unprotected and largely from above and the sides too.
+
This single pivotable 8 mm machine gun is mostly a last resort defence weapon. With the limited range of motion and its blind spot directly to the rear (due to the vertical stabilizer), the pilot will need to "wag" the tail of the aircraft to ensure the gunner can engage any trailing fighters. The entire bottom of the bomber is unprotected and largely from above and the sides too.
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
−
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in an aircraft, the features of using vehicles in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the aircraft, the features of using aircraft in a team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but instead, give the reader food for thought. Examine the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
  
 
The {{PAGENAME}} is used effectively as a low-altitude bomber, however, it can also be used to an extent as an attacker too.
 
The {{PAGENAME}} is used effectively as a low-altitude bomber, however, it can also be used to an extent as an attacker too.
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;Ground/Fleet attacker
 
;Ground/Fleet attacker
  
−
Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it.
+
Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. These machine guns also suffer from poor cooling so make sure to fire in short bursts and to keep an eye on how hot they are to avoid a gun jamming. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it.
  
 
=== Manual Engine Control ===
 
=== Manual Engine Control ===
Line 193: Line 173:
 
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
 
! rowspan="2" | Turbocharger
 
|-
 
|-
−
! Oil
+
! Oil !! Water !! Type
−
! Water
 
−
! Type
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Not controllable || rowspan="2" | Not controllable<br>Not auto controlled || rowspan="2" | Not controllable<br>Auto control available || rowspan="2" | Not controllable<br>Auto control available || rowspan="2" | Separate || rowspan="2" | Not controllable<br>1 gear || rowspan="2" | Not controllable
+
| Controllable || Controllable<br>Not auto controlled || Controllable<br>Not auto controlled || Controllable<br>Not auto controlled || Separate || Not controllable<br>1 gear || Not controllable
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
 
 
−
=== Modules ===
 
−
{| class="wikitable"
 
−
! colspan="1" | Tier
 
−
! colspan="2" | Flight performance
 
−
! colspan="1" | Survivability
 
−
! colspan="3" | Weaponry
 
−
|-
 
−
| I
 
−
| Fuselage repair
 
−
| Radiator
 
−
|
 
−
| Offensive 8 mm
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| II
 
−
|
 
−
| Compressor
 
−
| Airframe
 
−
|
 
−
| Turret 8 mm
 
−
| m/40
 
−
|-
 
−
| III
 
−
| Wings repair
 
−
| Engine
 
−
|
 
−
| New 8 mm MGs
 
−
|
 
−
|
 
−
|-
 
−
| IV
 
−
|
 
−
| Engine injection
 
−
| Cover
 
−
|
 
−
| New 8 mm MGs (turret)
 
−
|
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!--''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''-->
+
<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in the bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
  
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
−
* Very good bomb load (rivals Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] light bombers)
+
* Very good bomb load
−
* Extended landing gear can act as a "poor-man's" airbrake
+
* Extended landing gear can act as an airbrake
 
* Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters
 
* Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters
 +
* For an aircraft at its BR, it has a decent amount of armour
 +
* Lacks the high-drag floats of the preceding [[B17BS]]
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one 8mm machine gun(s) respectively.
+
* Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one 8 mm machine guns respectively
−
* Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion, vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft
+
* Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion
−
* Limited dive-bombing capabilities due to a lack of air brakes (shallow dive only)
+
* Vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft
−
* It, despite having an internal bomb bay, can't equip a loadout which solely uses said bomb bay.
+
* Limited dive-bombing capabilities due to a lack of air brakes (can do shallow dives)
 +
* Despite having an internal bomb bay, can't equip a loadout which solely uses said bomb bay.
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the aircraft in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
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Late in the 1930s, aircraft manufacture Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar began developing the L 10, a reconnaissance aircraft in response to requirements set forth by the Swedish Air Force. The hopes were to replace the ageing biplane force of Fokker S 6s. Partway through the initial development of the aircraft, ASJA merged with SAAB and as such, the designation of the aircraft changed to SAAB 17. In addition to the reconnaissance portion of the aircraft's capabilities, the wings were strengthened in order to be able to withstand higher forces imposed when utilising this aircraft as a dive bomber.  Though outfitted with a centreline hardpoint to mount bombs, problems during dive-bombing would have occurred because released bombs would impact with the propeller. To avoid this and clear the propeller arc, a rigging system was built to ensure the bomb was thrown clear of the propeller arc in the event of dive-bombing.
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Late in the 1930s, aircraft manufacture Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar began developing the L 10, a reconnaissance aircraft in response to requirements set forth by the Swedish Air Force. The hopes were to replace the ageing biplane force of Fokker S 6s. Partway through the initial development of the aircraft, ASJA merged with SAAB and as such, the designation of the aircraft changed to SAAB 17. In addition to the reconnaissance portion of the aircraft’s capabilities, the wings were strengthened in order to be able to withstand higher forces imposed when utilising this aircraft as a dive bomber.  Though outfitted with a centreline hardpoint to mount bombs, problems during dive-bombing would have occurred because released bombs would impact with the propeller. To avoid this and clear the propeller arc, a rigging system was built to ensure the bomb was thrown clear of the propeller arc in the event of dive-bombing.
 
  
 
The B17 saw limited usage with the Swedish Air Force, however, forty-six were sold to Ethiopia where they remained in active service all the way through 1968. Finland acquired two aircraft, however, they were utilised as target-tugs and quickly were destroyed during accidents. With the unique landing gear configuration, several were modified for usage with skis or floats for alternate landing locations, though the majority were outfitted with the unique covered landing gear.
 
The B17 saw limited usage with the Swedish Air Force, however, forty-six were sold to Ethiopia where they remained in active service all the way through 1968. Finland acquired two aircraft, however, they were utilised as target-tugs and quickly were destroyed during accidents. With the unique landing gear configuration, several were modified for usage with skis or floats for alternate landing locations, though the majority were outfitted with the unique covered landing gear.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
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''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''
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<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
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<!--;Images
 
  
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<li style="display: inline-block;"> [[File:(Insert image name.jpg/png here|thumb|none|250px|]] </li>
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* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=saab_b17b Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
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<li style="display: inline-block;"> [[File:(Insert image name.jpg/png here|thumb|none|250px|]] </li>
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<gallery mode="packed" heights="200px">
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File:B17 B -2.png|A SAAB B17B Dive-bombing an American convoy
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File:B17B -1.png|A SAAB B17B attacking a PBY Catalina with tracer rounds
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</gallery>
  
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;Videos-->
 
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
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<!--''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
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* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
 
* ''reference to the series of the aircraft;''
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* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' -->
  
 
;Related development
 
;Related development
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;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
 
;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
  
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* Aichi [[D3A1|D3A]]
 
 
* Douglas [[SBD-3|SBD]] Dauntless
 
* Douglas [[SBD-3|SBD]] Dauntless
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* Ilyushin [[IL-2 (Family)|Il-2]]
 
 
* Junkers [[Ju 87 (Family)|Ju 87]]
 
* Junkers [[Ju 87 (Family)|Ju 87]]
 
* Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]]
 
* Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]]
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* Ilyushin [[IL-2 (Family)|Il-2]]
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* Aichi [[D3A1|D3A]]
  
 
== External links ==
 
== External links ==
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<!--''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
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<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
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* ''encyclopedia page on the aircraft;''
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* ''other literature.'' -->
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* ''other literature.''-->
 
  
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* [https://warthunder.com/en/news/6495-development-b17a-saab-s-first-en [Development<nowiki>]</nowiki> B17A: SAAB's first]
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* [[wt:en/news/6495-development-b17a-saab-s-first-en|[Development] B17A: SAAB's first]]
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* [https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/474734-saab-b17b/ Official data sheet - more details about the performance]
  
 
{{AirManufacturer Saab}}
 
{{AirManufacturer Saab}}
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{{Template:Sweden_bombers}}
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{{Sweden bombers}}
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[[Category:Sweden aircraft]]
 

Latest revision as of 13:45, 2 December 2023

RANK 5 FRANCE
Somua SM PACK
This page is about the Swedish bomber B17B. For other versions, see B17 (Family).
B17B
saab_b17b.png
GarageImage B17B.jpg
360://https://wiki.warthunder.com/images/f/f8/Cockpit_saab_b17b.jpg
B17B
Sweden flag.png Sweden
I Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
1.3 1.3 1.3
Class:
Research:4 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:2 100 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

In the late 1930s, the Swedish Air Force was looking to replace their ageing Fokker S 6 biplane reconnaissance aircraft with a newer aircraft. Work began by ASJA and was designated as the L 10, however in 1939 after merging with Saab, the designation was changed to Saab 17. Though only serving for a few short years with the Swedish Air Force due to the advent of turbojet aircraft, the B17B continued to serve with other countries for another 20 years. The design had many variations, but the B17B was the second upgrade for the B17, following the B17A. The most important upgrade was the replacement of the old engine with a SFA-built Bristol Mercury XXIV radial engine. The B17B was also used as a basis for the S17BS.

Introduced in Update 1.95 "Northern Wind", this bomber featuring a Swedish license-built Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engine can hustle to its target (though not faster than many fighters it will face), but diving towards the ground and making a beeline for the target will ensure you get there as fast as possible. Sometimes making a bit of a wide arc along the sides of the map will ensure fighters will ignore you until they start seeing you blow up a bunch of ground targets and become a threat to their side winning. It has a reasonable payload and excels as a ground attacker, in air RB is very useful against light pillboxes and columns of tanks, meanwhile in ground RB the larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are more suited to destroy player controlled vehicles.

General info

Flight performance

Max speed
at 3 900 m395 km/h
Turn time20 s
Max altitude6 200 m
EngineBristol Mercury XXIV
TypeRadial
Cooling systemAir
Take-off weight4 t

The B17B is relatively manoeuvrable aircraft for a light bomber, especially when loaded down with ordnance. Though it will not turn fight very well, it will not be as stiff as some find medium and heavy bombers to be. Through the use of flaps and extension of landing gear to act as a speed brake, pilots will find that the B17B can be effectively used to bomb columns of vehicles or other targets of choice found on the map.

If pressed into an air-to-air battle or if an air target of opportunity presents itself, the B17B can be effective in either damaging or disabling the enemy aircraft. If the situation becomes dire and the B17B is still holding onto its suspended ordnance, it might be best to go ahead and drop them to allow for more manoeuvrability and increased chances of survival.

When using smaller bomb types, it is best to use this aircraft as a low-altitude bomber as trying to use it at mid or high altitude, the AI vehicles will tend to be able to easily avoid the bombs. Also, the smaller bombs tend to do piddly damage against bases, but when working with other bombers every little bit helps.

Characteristics Max Speed
(km/h at 3,900 m) 		Max altitude
(metres) 		Turn time
(seconds) 		Rate of climb
(metres/second) 		Take-off run
(metres)
AB RB AB RB AB RB
Stock 373 363 6200 21.2 22.1 4.3 4.1 450
Upgraded 420 395 18.9 20.0 8.5 6.0

Details

Features
Combat flaps Take-off flaps Landing flaps Air brakes Arrestor gear
✓ ✓ ✓ X X
Limits
Wings (km/h) Gear (km/h) Flaps (km/h) Max Static G
Combat Take-off Landing + -
620 480 386 369 280 ~11 ~7
Optimal velocities (km/h)
Ailerons Rudder Elevators Radiator
< 300 < 310 < 320 > 320

Survivability and armour

Crew2 people
Speed of destruction
Structural620 km/h
Gear480 km/h
Protective components found in the B17B.
  • 10 mm steel - Pilot's seat backrest
  • 10 mm steel - Gunner rear protective plate

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB226 → 284 Sl icon.png
RB319 → 402 Sl icon.png
SB429 → 540 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications4 450 Rp icon.png
2 670 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost300 Ge icon.png
Crew training600 Sl icon.png
Experts2 100 Sl icon.png
Aces45 Ge icon.png
Research Aces110 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
20 / 40 / 80 % Sl icon.png
100 / 100 / 100 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Flight performance Survivability Weaponry
Mods aerodinamic fuse.png
Fuselage repair
Research:
300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
180 Sl icon.png
60 Ge icon.png
Mods radiator.png
Radiator
Research:
300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
180 Sl icon.png
60 Ge icon.png
Mods armor frame.png
Airframe
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
150 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods compressor.png
Compressor
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
150 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods aerodinamic wing.png
Wings repair
Research:
370 Rp icon.png
Cost:
220 Sl icon.png
75 Ge icon.png
Mods new engine.png
Engine
Research:
370 Rp icon.png
Cost:
220 Sl icon.png
75 Ge icon.png
Mods armor cover.png
Cover
Research:
480 Rp icon.png
Cost:
290 Sl icon.png
95 Ge icon.png
Mods metanol.png
Engine injection
Research:
480 Rp icon.png
Cost:
290 Sl icon.png
95 Ge icon.png
Mods ammo.png
8_63_belt_pack
Research:
300 Rp icon.png
Cost:
180 Sl icon.png
60 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 1.png
Mods ammo.png
8_63_turret_belt_pack
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
150 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mod arrow 1.png
Mods pilon bomb.png
m/40(250)
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
150 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods weapon.png
8_63_new_gun
Research:
370 Rp icon.png
Cost:
220 Sl icon.png
75 Ge icon.png
Mods weapon.png
8_63_turret_new_gun
Research:
480 Rp icon.png
Cost:
290 Sl icon.png
95 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Offensive armament

Main articles: Ksp m/22 Fh (8 mm), Ksp m/22 Fv (8 mm)

The B17B is armed with:

  • 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fh machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)
  • 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fv machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)

The Swedish Air Force chose to outfit the B17B with license-built copies of the Browning M1919 machine gun, which originally was calibrated for 6.5 mm however this round was found to be less effective against fabric-covered aircraft and so the gun was recalibrated up to 8 mm. The Swedish variant is listed as the Ksp m/22 machine gun of which two were mounted on this bomber with a gun in each wing. To be of any real use to the pilot either in aerial combat (if forced into it) or during ground attack, convergence must be set preferably in a range of 250 m - 400 m for best results especially with ground attack as this will allow firing capability on ground targets with ample room to manoeuvre without fear of crashing into the ground.

Suspended armament

The B17B can be outfitted with the following ordnance:

1 2 3
Hardpoints B17A.png
50 kg sb m/42 bombs 2 5 2
250 kg mb m/40 bombs 1
Default weapon presets
  • 9 x 50 kg sb m/42 bombs (450 kg total)
  • 1 x 250 kg mb m/40 bomb (250 kg total)

While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi Su-2 or the massive Farman F.222.2 and its 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the Awards "Antimech", "Heavy Metal Fury" or "Thunderer", just to name a few.

Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others.

Defensive armament

Main article: Ksp m/22-37 R (8 mm)

The B17B is defended by:

  • 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22-37 R machine gun, dorsal turret (300 rpg)

This single pivotable 8 mm machine gun is mostly a last resort defence weapon. With the limited range of motion and its blind spot directly to the rear (due to the vertical stabilizer), the pilot will need to "wag" the tail of the aircraft to ensure the gunner can engage any trailing fighters. The entire bottom of the bomber is unprotected and largely from above and the sides too.

Usage in battles

The B17B is used effectively as a low-altitude bomber, however, it can also be used to an extent as an attacker too.

Bomber

Several different configurations of bombs area available for the B17B depending on the targets available on any given map. The smaller 50 kg bombs tend to be used best on low-altitude quick strikes against columns of vehicles driving down a roadway. Low-altitude works best here as the vehicles do not have as much time to scatter and avoid incoming bombs. The 50 kg bombs do not have a huge shrapnel radius, so the less time the vehicles have to scatter the more likely they will be destroyed by direct explosion or the shrapnel wave which follows.

The larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are not as effective against mobile vehicle targets unless they clustered relatively close together where the splash damage from the bombs will take out multiple targets at a time. Targets which are more heavily protected such as pillboxes, medium and heavy tanks are also good options for the heavier bombs. Though these bombs will put a small dent in the larger bases, those should be left to medium or heavy bombers which can carry multiple 500 kg+ bombs, however, if bombers are grouping up on a base, do not hesitate to lend a hand if you are close enough to toss in a few bombs.

Ground/Fleet attacker

Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. These machine guns also suffer from poor cooling so make sure to fire in short bursts and to keep an eye on how hot they are to avoid a gun jamming. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it.

Manual Engine Control

MEC elements
Mixer Pitch Radiator Supercharger Turbocharger
Oil Water Type
Controllable Controllable
Not auto controlled 		Controllable
Not auto controlled 		Controllable
Not auto controlled 		Separate Not controllable
1 gear 		Not controllable

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Very good bomb load
  • Extended landing gear can act as an airbrake
  • Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters
  • For an aircraft at its BR, it has a decent amount of armour
  • Lacks the high-drag floats of the preceding B17BS

Cons:

  • Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one 8 mm machine guns respectively
  • Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion
  • Vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft
  • Limited dive-bombing capabilities due to a lack of air brakes (can do shallow dives)
  • Despite having an internal bomb bay, can't equip a loadout which solely uses said bomb bay.

History

Late in the 1930s, aircraft manufacture Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar began developing the L 10, a reconnaissance aircraft in response to requirements set forth by the Swedish Air Force. The hopes were to replace the ageing biplane force of Fokker S 6s. Partway through the initial development of the aircraft, ASJA merged with SAAB and as such, the designation of the aircraft changed to SAAB 17. In addition to the reconnaissance portion of the aircraft's capabilities, the wings were strengthened in order to be able to withstand higher forces imposed when utilising this aircraft as a dive bomber. Though outfitted with a centreline hardpoint to mount bombs, problems during dive-bombing would have occurred because released bombs would impact with the propeller. To avoid this and clear the propeller arc, a rigging system was built to ensure the bomb was thrown clear of the propeller arc in the event of dive-bombing.

The B17 saw limited usage with the Swedish Air Force, however, forty-six were sold to Ethiopia where they remained in active service all the way through 1968. Finland acquired two aircraft, however, they were utilised as target-tugs and quickly were destroyed during accidents. With the unique landing gear configuration, several were modified for usage with skis or floats for alternate landing locations, though the majority were outfitted with the unique covered landing gear.

Media

Skins
Images

  • A SAAB B17B Dive-bombing an American convoy

  • A SAAB B17B attacking a PBY Catalina with tracer rounds

See also

Related development
Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era

External links


Swedish Aeroplane Company Ltd. (SAAB)
  Pre-SAAB: SA / ASJA
SA 'Jaktfalken'  J6B
SAAB 17  B17A · B17B · S17BS
SAAB 18  B18A · B18B · T18B · T18B (57)
SAAB 21  J21A-1 · J21A-2 · A21A-3 · J21RA · A21RB
SAAB 29 'Tunnan'  J29A · A29B · J29D · J29F
SAAB 32 'Lansen'  J32B · A32A · A32A Röd Adam
SAAB 35 'Draken'  J35A · J35D
SAAB 37 'Viggen'  JA37C · JA37D · JA37DI · JA37DI F21 · AJ37 · AJS37
SAAB 39 'Gripen'  JAS39A · JAS39C
SAAB 105  SK60B · SAAB-105G
License Production  B3C (Ju 86K)
Export  SAAB-105OE · J35XS · ▄JAS39C · ◔JAS39EBS HU C

Sweden bombers
B3  B3C
B17  B17A · B17B · S17BS
SAAB 18  B18A · B18B · T18B · T18B (57)
T 2  T 2
Finland  ▄Ar 196 A-5 · ▄Ju 88 A-4

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