Difference between revisions of "B17B"
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== Description == | == Description == | ||
<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | <!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of and the creation and combat usage of the aircraft, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the aircraft in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' --> | ||
| − | + | In the late 1930s, the Swedish Air Force was looking to replace their ageing Fokker S 6 biplane reconnaissance aircraft with a newer aircraft. Work began by ASJA and was designated as the L 10, however in 1939 after merging with Saab, the designation was changed to '''Saab 17'''. Though only serving for a few short years with the Swedish Air Force due to the advent of turbojet aircraft, the {{PAGENAME}} continued to serve with other countries for another 20 years. The design had many variations, but the B17B was the second upgrade for the B17, following the B17A. The most important upgrade was the replacement of the old engine with a SFA-built Bristol Mercury XXIV radial engine. The B17B was also used as a basis for the [[S17BS]]. | |
| − | + | Introduced in [[Update 1.95 "Northern Wind"]], this bomber featuring a Swedish license-built Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engine can hustle to its target (though not faster than many fighters it will face), but diving towards the ground and making a beeline for the target will ensure you get there as fast as possible. Sometimes making a bit of a wide arc along the sides of the map will ensure fighters will ignore you until they start seeing you blow up a bunch of ground targets and become a threat to their side winning. It has a reasonable payload and excels as a ground attacker, in air RB is very useful against light pillboxes and columns of tanks, meanwhile in ground RB the larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are more suited to destroy player controlled vehicles. | |
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| − | It | ||
== General info == | == General info == | ||
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{{Specs-Avia-Suspended}} | {{Specs-Avia-Suspended}} | ||
<!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the aircraft's suspended armament: additional cannons under the wings, bombs, rockets and torpedoes. This section is especially important for bombers and attackers. If there is no suspended weaponry remove this subsection.'' --> | ||
| − | |||
The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance: | The '''''{{PAGENAME}}''''' can be outfitted with the following ordnance: | ||
| + | |||
| + | {| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%" | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | ! !! width="15%" | 1 !! width="15%" | 2 !! width="15%" | 3 | ||
| + | | rowspan="3" width="30%" | <div class="ttx-image">[[File:Hardpoints_B17A.png]]</div> | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | ! [[sb m/42 (50 kg)|50 kg sb m/42]] bombs | ||
| + | | 2 || 5 || 2 | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | ! [[mb m/40 (250 kg)|250 kg mb m/40]] bombs | ||
| + | | || 1 || | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | |} | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{Navigation-Start|Default weapon presets}} | ||
| + | {{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}} | ||
* 9 x 50 kg sb m/42 bombs (450 kg total) | * 9 x 50 kg sb m/42 bombs (450 kg total) | ||
* 1 x 250 kg mb m/40 bomb (250 kg total) | * 1 x 250 kg mb m/40 bomb (250 kg total) | ||
| − | + | {{Navigation-End}} | |
| − | While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] or the massive Farman [[F.222.2]] and its 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the [[ | + | While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] or the massive Farman [[F.222.2]] and its 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the [[Awards]] "Antimech", "Heavy Metal Fury" or "Thunderer", just to name a few. |
Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others. | Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others. | ||
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;Ground/Fleet attacker | ;Ground/Fleet attacker | ||
| − | Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it. | + | Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. These machine guns also suffer from poor cooling so make sure to fire in short bursts and to keep an eye on how hot they are to avoid a gun jamming. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it. |
=== Manual Engine Control === | === Manual Engine Control === | ||
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'''Pros:''' | '''Pros:''' | ||
| − | * Very good bomb load | + | * Very good bomb load |
| − | * Extended landing gear can act as | + | * Extended landing gear can act as an airbrake |
* Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters | * Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters | ||
* For an aircraft at its BR, it has a decent amount of armour | * For an aircraft at its BR, it has a decent amount of armour | ||
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'''Cons:''' | '''Cons:''' | ||
| − | * Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one | + | * Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one 8 mm machine guns respectively |
* Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion | * Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion | ||
* Vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft | * Vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft | ||
| Line 195: | Line 206: | ||
== Media == | == Media == | ||
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' --> | <!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' --> | ||
| + | |||
| + | ;Skins | ||
| + | |||
| + | * [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=saab_b17b Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.] | ||
| + | |||
| + | ;Images | ||
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200px"> | <gallery mode="packed" heights="200px"> | ||
File:B17 B -2.png|A SAAB B17B Dive-bombing an American convoy | File:B17 B -2.png|A SAAB B17B Dive-bombing an American convoy | ||
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;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era | ;Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era | ||
| − | |||
* Douglas [[SBD-3|SBD]] Dauntless | * Douglas [[SBD-3|SBD]] Dauntless | ||
| − | |||
* Junkers [[Ju 87 (Family)|Ju 87]] | * Junkers [[Ju 87 (Family)|Ju 87]] | ||
* Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] | * Sukhoi [[Su-2 (Family)|Su-2]] | ||
| + | * Ilyushin [[IL-2 (Family)|Il-2]] | ||
| + | * Aichi [[D3A1|D3A]] | ||
== External links == | == External links == | ||
<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:'' | <!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:'' | ||
* ''topic on the official game forum;'' | * ''topic on the official game forum;'' | ||
| − | |||
* ''other literature.'' --> | * ''other literature.'' --> | ||
Latest revision as of 13:45, 2 December 2023
| This page is about the Swedish bomber B17B. For other versions, see B17 (Family). |
Contents
Description
In the late 1930s, the Swedish Air Force was looking to replace their ageing Fokker S 6 biplane reconnaissance aircraft with a newer aircraft. Work began by ASJA and was designated as the L 10, however in 1939 after merging with Saab, the designation was changed to Saab 17. Though only serving for a few short years with the Swedish Air Force due to the advent of turbojet aircraft, the B17B continued to serve with other countries for another 20 years. The design had many variations, but the B17B was the second upgrade for the B17, following the B17A. The most important upgrade was the replacement of the old engine with a SFA-built Bristol Mercury XXIV radial engine. The B17B was also used as a basis for the S17BS.
Introduced in Update 1.95 "Northern Wind", this bomber featuring a Swedish license-built Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp engine can hustle to its target (though not faster than many fighters it will face), but diving towards the ground and making a beeline for the target will ensure you get there as fast as possible. Sometimes making a bit of a wide arc along the sides of the map will ensure fighters will ignore you until they start seeing you blow up a bunch of ground targets and become a threat to their side winning. It has a reasonable payload and excels as a ground attacker, in air RB is very useful against light pillboxes and columns of tanks, meanwhile in ground RB the larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are more suited to destroy player controlled vehicles.
General info
Flight performance
The B17B is relatively manoeuvrable aircraft for a light bomber, especially when loaded down with ordnance. Though it will not turn fight very well, it will not be as stiff as some find medium and heavy bombers to be. Through the use of flaps and extension of landing gear to act as a speed brake, pilots will find that the B17B can be effectively used to bomb columns of vehicles or other targets of choice found on the map.
If pressed into an air-to-air battle or if an air target of opportunity presents itself, the B17B can be effective in either damaging or disabling the enemy aircraft. If the situation becomes dire and the B17B is still holding onto its suspended ordnance, it might be best to go ahead and drop them to allow for more manoeuvrability and increased chances of survival.
When using smaller bomb types, it is best to use this aircraft as a low-altitude bomber as trying to use it at mid or high altitude, the AI vehicles will tend to be able to easily avoid the bombs. Also, the smaller bombs tend to do piddly damage against bases, but when working with other bombers every little bit helps.
| Characteristics | Max Speed (km/h at 3,900 m) |
Max altitude (metres) |
Turn time (seconds) |
Rate of climb (metres/second) |
Take-off run (metres) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| AB | RB | AB | RB | AB | RB | |||
| Stock | 373 | 363 | 6200 | 21.2 | 22.1 | 4.3 | 4.1 | 450 |
| Upgraded | 420 | 395 | 18.9 | 20.0 | 8.5 | 6.0 | ||
Details
| Features | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Combat flaps | Take-off flaps | Landing flaps | Air brakes | Arrestor gear |
| ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | X | X |
| Limits | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wings (km/h) | Gear (km/h) | Flaps (km/h) | Max Static G | |||
| Combat | Take-off | Landing | + | - | ||
| 620 | 480 | 386 | 369 | 280 | ~11 | ~7 |
| Optimal velocities (km/h) | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Ailerons | Rudder | Elevators | Radiator |
| < 300 | < 310 | < 320 | > 320 |
Survivability and armour
- 10 mm steel - Pilot's seat backrest
- 10 mm steel - Gunner rear protective plate
Modifications and economy
| Flight performance | Survivability | Weaponry | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Offensive armament
The B17B is armed with:
- 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fh machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)
- 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22 Fv machine gun, wing-mounted (500 rpg)
The Swedish Air Force chose to outfit the B17B with license-built copies of the Browning M1919 machine gun, which originally was calibrated for 6.5 mm however this round was found to be less effective against fabric-covered aircraft and so the gun was recalibrated up to 8 mm. The Swedish variant is listed as the Ksp m/22 machine gun of which two were mounted on this bomber with a gun in each wing. To be of any real use to the pilot either in aerial combat (if forced into it) or during ground attack, convergence must be set preferably in a range of 250 m - 400 m for best results especially with ground attack as this will allow firing capability on ground targets with ample room to manoeuvre without fear of crashing into the ground.
Suspended armament
The B17B can be outfitted with the following ordnance:
| 1 | 2 | 3 |  | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 50 kg sb m/42 bombs | 2 | 5 | 2 | |
| 250 kg mb m/40 bombs | 1 |
| Default weapon presets | |
|---|---|
| |
While the initial payload option consisting of nine 50 kg bombs might feel a little on the weak side compared to a might 500 kg bomb, fear not as other nation aircraft such as the comparable Sukhoi Su-2 or the massive Farman F.222.2 and its 52 x 50 kg bombs can completely devastate columns of vehicles on early maps. These light trucks and anti-aircraft artillery are easily dispatched with the 50 kg bombs and can easily reward the bomber pilot with the Awards "Antimech", "Heavy Metal Fury" or "Thunderer", just to name a few.
Larger payload options should be reserved for targets which tend to be the tougher nut to crack such as pillboxes or medium and heavy tanks. Base bombing should be avoided unless flying in arcade battles without the threat of enemy fighters, but at the rate of 320 kg or 450 kg at a time, it will take a while to eliminate a base unless you are working with others.
Defensive armament
The B17B is defended by:
- 1 x 8 mm Ksp m/22-37 R machine gun, dorsal turret (300 rpg)
This single pivotable 8 mm machine gun is mostly a last resort defence weapon. With the limited range of motion and its blind spot directly to the rear (due to the vertical stabilizer), the pilot will need to "wag" the tail of the aircraft to ensure the gunner can engage any trailing fighters. The entire bottom of the bomber is unprotected and largely from above and the sides too.
Usage in battles
The B17B is used effectively as a low-altitude bomber, however, it can also be used to an extent as an attacker too.
- Bomber
Several different configurations of bombs area available for the B17B depending on the targets available on any given map. The smaller 50 kg bombs tend to be used best on low-altitude quick strikes against columns of vehicles driving down a roadway. Low-altitude works best here as the vehicles do not have as much time to scatter and avoid incoming bombs. The 50 kg bombs do not have a huge shrapnel radius, so the less time the vehicles have to scatter the more likely they will be destroyed by direct explosion or the shrapnel wave which follows.
The larger 250 kg and 500 kg bombs are not as effective against mobile vehicle targets unless they clustered relatively close together where the splash damage from the bombs will take out multiple targets at a time. Targets which are more heavily protected such as pillboxes, medium and heavy tanks are also good options for the heavier bombs. Though these bombs will put a small dent in the larger bases, those should be left to medium or heavy bombers which can carry multiple 500 kg+ bombs, however, if bombers are grouping up on a base, do not hesitate to lend a hand if you are close enough to toss in a few bombs.
- Ground/Fleet attacker
Typically this bomber will be found at a lower altitude and after dropping bombs (and either waiting for the reload timer or heading back to base), there are typically targets of opportunity which the 8 mm machine guns can inflict damage or destroy. Due to the limited machine guns on the aircraft, it may be necessary to make a second pass. These machine guns also suffer from poor cooling so make sure to fire in short bursts and to keep an eye on how hot they are to avoid a gun jamming. The manoeuvrability of this aircraft is sufficient enough to quickly turn around and make another pass. Dwelling in one target environment for long is never a good option as you will draw the attention of fighters so be on the move and keep the speed of the aircraft at a good clip to ensure potential energy is there when you need it.
Manual Engine Control
| MEC elements | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mixer | Pitch | Radiator | Supercharger | Turbocharger | ||
| Oil | Water | Type | ||||
| Controllable | Controllable Not auto controlled |
Controllable Not auto controlled |
Controllable Not auto controlled |
Separate | Not controllable 1 gear |
Not controllable |
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Very good bomb load
- Extended landing gear can act as an airbrake
- Very manoeuvrable low to the ground, can easily out turn most heavy fighters
- For an aircraft at its BR, it has a decent amount of armour
- Lacks the high-drag floats of the preceding B17BS
Cons:
- Weak frontal and rear dorsal armament consisting of two and one 8 mm machine guns respectively
- Rear dorsal machine gun has a limited range of motion
- Vertical stabilizer causes firing blindspot directly to the rear of the aircraft
- Limited dive-bombing capabilities due to a lack of air brakes (can do shallow dives)
- Despite having an internal bomb bay, can't equip a loadout which solely uses said bomb bay.
History
Late in the 1930s, aircraft manufacture Armstrong Siddeley Jaguar began developing the L 10, a reconnaissance aircraft in response to requirements set forth by the Swedish Air Force. The hopes were to replace the ageing biplane force of Fokker S 6s. Partway through the initial development of the aircraft, ASJA merged with SAAB and as such, the designation of the aircraft changed to SAAB 17. In addition to the reconnaissance portion of the aircraft's capabilities, the wings were strengthened in order to be able to withstand higher forces imposed when utilising this aircraft as a dive bomber. Though outfitted with a centreline hardpoint to mount bombs, problems during dive-bombing would have occurred because released bombs would impact with the propeller. To avoid this and clear the propeller arc, a rigging system was built to ensure the bomb was thrown clear of the propeller arc in the event of dive-bombing.
The B17 saw limited usage with the Swedish Air Force, however, forty-six were sold to Ethiopia where they remained in active service all the way through 1968. Finland acquired two aircraft, however, they were utilised as target-tugs and quickly were destroyed during accidents. With the unique landing gear configuration, several were modified for usage with skis or floats for alternate landing locations, though the majority were outfitted with the unique covered landing gear.
Media
- Skins
- Images
A SAAB B17B Dive-bombing an American convoy
A SAAB B17B attacking a PBY Catalina with tracer rounds
See also
- Related development
- SAAB B17A
- Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
External links
| Swedish Aeroplane Company Ltd. (SAAB) | |
|---|---|
| Pre-SAAB: SA / ASJA | |
| SA 'Jaktfalken' | J6B |
| SAAB 17 | B17A · B17B · S17BS |
| SAAB 18 | B18A · B18B · T18B · T18B (57) |
| SAAB 21 | J21A-1 · J21A-2 · A21A-3 · J21RA · A21RB |
| SAAB 29 'Tunnan' | J29A · A29B · J29D · J29F |
| SAAB 32 'Lansen' | J32B · A32A · A32A Röd Adam |
| SAAB 35 'Draken' | J35A · J35D |
| SAAB 37 'Viggen' | JA37C · JA37D · JA37DI · JA37DI F21 · AJ37 · AJS37 |
| SAAB 39 'Gripen' | JAS39A · JAS39C |
| SAAB 105 | SK60B · SAAB-105G |
| License Production | B3C (Ju 86K) |
| Export | SAAB-105OE · J35XS · ▄JAS39C · ◔JAS39EBS HU C |
| Sweden bombers | |
|---|---|
| B3 | B3C |
| B17 | B17A · B17B · S17BS |
| SAAB 18 | B18A · B18B · T18B · T18B (57) |
| T 2 | T 2 |
| Finland | ▄Ar 196 A-5 · ▄Ju 88 A-4 |
