Difference between revisions of "CA Lorraine"

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(New Description Project - France Priority: Canon d'Assaut Lorraine de 100 mm)
 
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{{Specs-Card|code=fr_lorraine_100}}
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{{Specs-Card
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|code=fr_lorraine_100
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|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg}}
 +
}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
−
<!--''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.''-->
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<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
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[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
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The '''Canon d'Assaut Lorraine de 100 mm''' is a French prototype tank destroyer based on the [[AMX M4|AMX M4 medium tank]] project's chassis. Following World War II, the French Army launched several programs to replace their antiquated tanks. The Lorraine company was charged with developing a light tank destroyer. The Canon d'Assaut Lorraine used Veil-Picard pneumatic tires instead of regular road wheels, which reduced the vehicle's ground pressure. Another advantage of the tires is that even if the tracks are destroyed, the vehicle can continue to operate. The prototype was started in 1950 but did not finish until 1952. The project was cancelled in 1953. The expertise gained by developing the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine would eventually serve as the foundation for other Lorraine initiatives.
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{{break}}
 
−
The '''{{specs|name}}''' (100 mm Lorraine assault gun), or abbreviated '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', is a Rank {{specs|rank}} French tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]]. It presents a very classic TD design: Casemate gun platform and powerful armament. While lacking in terms of armour, it compensates with both excellent mobility and a very strong gun.
 
  
−
The CA Lorraine is an intermediate between a [[SU-85]] and a lowered [[Jagdpanther|Jagdpanther]]. It is distinguishable for having rubber road wheels instead of metal ones, two huge fans atop the engine deck (much like the German Jagdpanther), a very pointy gun mantlet pointing outwards from the casemate and quite a large, rounded commander's cupola. In some ways, it is quite similar to the fearsome [[AMX-50 Foch|AMX 50 ''Foch'']], and this can scare away some cowardly foes.
+
Introduced in [[Update 1.75 "La Résistance"]], the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine de 100 mm is a versatile tank destroyer that may be deployed in a variety of ways, although it will always rely on its speed. In terms of maximum speed, cross-country speed, turn time, neutral steering, and reverse speed, this tank destroyer is among the most agile in its class. It should not, however, be utilized as an assault tank leading the attack against the enemy. As there is no turret, players should avoid close-up combat with adversaries. Use it mostly to ambush foes by flanking them early in battles. Since the vehicle has incredibly weak armour overall, you should always reposition after firing.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
−
<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''
+
{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}
−
 
+
<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' -->
−
''If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
 
−
Its sloped, medium thickness frontal armour will not protect you from anything bigger than SPAA shots (some may even get through in close quarters) ''but'' it is certainly sufficient for what it is designed to do: protecting from stray bullets in long range engagements. Side and top armour are also quite weak, so don't expect to survive any kind of surprise coming from side or top. Still, this tank has 5 crew members, which can often save it from a (too) quick death.
 
  
 
'''Armour type:'''
 
'''Armour type:'''
  
−
* Rolled homogeneous armour (Casemate hull)
+
* Rolled homogeneous armour (casemate, cupola)
−
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Driver's hatch)
+
* Cast homogeneous armour (gun mantlet)
 +
* Wheel (tires)
  
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
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! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Hull || 50 mm (55°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 35 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 60-150 (0-88°) + 35-60 mm (2-88°) ''Gun mantlet''|| 30 mm (15°) ''Front'' <br> 30 mm ''Bottom'' || 25 mm (23°) ''Top'' <br> 25 mm (55°) ''Bottom'' || 20 mm <br> 8 mm ''Engine grille''
+
| Hull || 50 mm (54°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 35 mm (61°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 60-150 (0-88°) + 35-60 mm (2-88°) ''Gun mantlet''|| 30 mm (15°) ''Top'' <br> 30 mm ''Bottom'' || 25 mm (23°) ''Upper glacis'' <br> 25 mm (54°) ''Lower glacis'' || 20 mm ''Front'' <br> 20 mm (7°) ''Rear'' <br> 8 mm (7°) ''Radiator and engine vents''
−
|-
 
−
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Cupola || 50 mm || 20 mm
+
| Cupola || colspan="3" style="text-align:center" | 50 mm (spherical) || 20 mm
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
 
'''Notes:'''
 
'''Notes:'''
  
−
* Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.
+
* Suspension wheels, tracks and torsion bars are 20 mm thick.
 +
 
 +
Its sloped, medium thickness frontal armour will not protect you from anything bigger than SPAA shots (some may even get through in close quarters) but it is certainly sufficient for what it is designed to do: protecting from stray bullets in long range engagements. Side and top armour are also quite weak, so don't expect to survive any kind of surprise coming from side or top. Still, this tank has 5 crew members, which can often save it from a quick destruction.
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
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<!--''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.''-->
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{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}
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If anyone thought the [[Lorraine 40t]] was a sprinter, this is even better. The CA Lorraine is ''fast''. Not only in forward motion is it fast, it can retreat at a decent, constant, -16 km/h and it has ability to neutral steer, these enable fast reaction to quickly changing battlefield odds such as flanking maneuvers or enemy breakthrough. An experienced player can take clear advantage over its foes by achieving good placement and this tank is the perfect tool for this task.
+
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{{tankMobility|abMinHp=973|rbMinHp=606}}
−
|-
+
 
−
! colspan="3" | Mobility characteristic
+
If anyone thought the [[Lorraine 40t]] was a sprinter, this is even better. The {{PAGENAME}} is ''fast''. Not only in forward motion is it fast, it can reverse at a decent, constant, -16 km/h and it has ability to neutral steer, these enable fast reaction to quickly changing battlefield odds such as flanking manoeuvres or enemy breakthrough. An experienced player can take clear advantage over its foes by achieving good placement and this tank is the perfect tool for this task.
−
|-
+
 
−
! Weight (tons)
+
=== Modifications and economy ===
−
! colspan="1" | Add-on Armour<br>weight (tons)
+
{{Specs-Economy}}
−
! colspan="1" | Max speed (km/h)
 
−
|-
 
−
| rowspan="2" | 25.0 || colspan="1" rowspan="2" | N/A || colspan="1" | 68 (AB)
 
−
|-
 
−
|62 (RB/SB)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" | Engine power (horsepower)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="1" | Mode
 
−
!Stock
 
−
!Upgraded
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Arcade''
 
−
|973
 
−
|_,___
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Realistic/Simulator''
 
−
|606
 
−
|685
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="1" | Mode
 
−
!Stock
 
−
!Upgraded
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Arcade''
 
−
|38.92
 
−
|__.__
 
−
|-
 
−
|''Realistic/Simulator''
 
−
|24.24
 
−
|27.40
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
 
=== Main armament ===
 
=== Main armament ===
−
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
+
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}
 +
<!-- ''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.'' -->
 
{{main|SA47 L/58 (100 mm)}}
 
{{main|SA47 L/58 (100 mm)}}
  
−
This gun platform uses the usual French rank IV 100 mm SA47 L/58 cannon with a twist: it has no autoloader mechanism, hence making reload time ''twice'' as long. However, at battle rating 6.3, the gun packs an awesome 300 mm of penetration that ensures it can punch well above its own tier. The large shell caliber also means it can create quite a lot of fragments inside a tank, making the lack of explosive filler not so bad, as long as you land a good hit.  
+
This gun platform uses the usual French rank IV 100 mm SA47 L/58 cannon with a twist: it has no autoloader mechanism, hence making reload time twice as long. However, at its battle rating, the gun packs an awesome 300 mm of penetration that ensures it can punch well above its own rank. The large shell calibre also means it can create quite a lot of fragments inside a tank, making the lack of explosive filler not so bad, as long as you land a good hit.
  
−
Keep that in mind as your foes get closer and closer to you: these precious 15 seconds of reload time are the perfect time to intent a frontal attack, even more so since you don't have automatic firepower of any form. Always have a backup plan, in case your single shot doesn't fully disable your target.  
+
Keep that in mind as your foes get closer and closer to you: these precious 11 seconds of reload time are the perfect time to intent a frontal attack, even more so since you don't have automatic firepower of any form. Always have a backup plan, in case your single shot doesn't fully disable your target.
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="6" | [[SA47 L/58 (100 mm)|100 mm SA47 L/58]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="3" | 40 || -6°/+16° || ±9° || N/A
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Mode
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Stock
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
−
|-
 
−
| ''Arcade'' || 5.3 || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Realistic'' || 3.6 || __.__ || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
+
! colspan="5" | [[SA47 L/58 (100 mm)|100 mm SA47 L/58]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
+
! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
 +
! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 +
! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Stock
+
! ''Arcade''
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
+
| rowspan="2" | 40 || rowspan="2" | -6°/+16° || rowspan="2" | ±9° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 5.3 || 7.3 || 8.9 || 9.8 || 10.4 || rowspan="2" | 11.18 || rowspan="2" | 9.89 || rowspan="2" | 9.12 || rowspan="2" | 8.60
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
−
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| 15.6 || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
+
! ''Realistic''
 +
| 3.6 || 4.2 || 5.1 || 5.6 || 6.0
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
===== Ammunition =====
+
==== Ammunition ====
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+
{{:SA47 L/58 (100 mm)/Ammunition|100 mm Obus de rupture, 100 mm Obus explosif}}
−
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
+
 
−
|-
+
==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
+
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
−
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
+
<!-- '''Last updated: 2.3.0.27''' -->
−
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 0° Angle of Attack'''
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
−
|-
 
−
! 10m
 
−
! 100m
 
−
! 500m
 
−
! 1000m
 
−
! 1500m
 
−
! 2000m
 
−
|-
 
−
| 100 mm Obus de rupture || APCBC || 295 || 293 || 279 || 263 || 248 || 233
 
−
|-
 
−
| 100 mm Obus explosif || HE || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 20
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
−
! colspan="11" | Shell details
 
−
|-
 
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
−
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
−
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse delay''
 
−
''in m:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Fuse sensitivity''
 
−
''in mm:''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Explosive Mass in g<br /> (TNT equivalent):''
 
−
! rowspan="2" | ''Normalization At 30° <br> from horizontal:''
 
−
! colspan="3" | ''Ricochet:''
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
! 0%
+
! Full<br>ammo
−
! 50%
+
! 1st<br>rack empty
−
! 100%
+
! 2nd<br>rack empty
 +
! 3rd<br>rack empty
 +
! 4th<br>rack empty
 +
! Visual<br>discrepancy
 
|-
 
|-
−
| 100 mm Obus de rupture || APCBC || 1,060 || 15 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ° || 48° || 63° || 71°
+
| '''40''' || 31&nbsp;''(+9)'' || 21&nbsp;''(+19)'' || 11&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+39)'' || No
 
|-
 
|-
−
| 100 mm Obus explosif || HE || 1,000 || 15 || 0.1 || 0.5 || 1,400 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
−
|-
 
 
|}
 
|}
 +
'''Note''':
  
−
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
+
* Shells are modeled individually and disappear after having been shot or loaded.
−
[[File:Ammoracks {{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumbnail|x250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
 
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
−
|-
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Full<br /> ammo
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |1st<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |2nd<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
 
−
|-
 
−
|| '''40''' || 31&nbsp;''(+9)'' || 21&nbsp;''(+19)'' || 11&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+39)'' || style="text-align:left" | no
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
−
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
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<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
−
This tank sits with confidence at BR 6.3 as a regular tank destroyer. There is nothing very special to it, but it performs good in most situations. Use your good mobility to take a competitive spot and ''reposition'' every now and then : once you get spotted, it is already too late. Hopefully, this tank's excellent mobility and ''neutral steering'' will make your day easier.
+
The CA Lorraine can be used in different ways, but in all cases it will be relying on its speed. The CA Lorraine is one of the most agile tanks at its battle rating in terms of max speed, cross country speed, turn time, neutral steering and reverse. The CA Lorraine should not be used as an assault tank (often confused with the [[AMX-50 Foch]]). Use your speed as your main advantage.
  
−
Use this tank as a classic tank destroyer while enjoying its great mobility. Any good move with a casemate TD is a good move with this tank.
+
'''When in urban combat:'''
 +
 
 +
The Lorraine has a big disadvantage when it comes to urban combat, it is turretless, meaning the tank will have to turn in order to aim at a certain place. This also makes crossing corners harder as the lack of turret reduces where your gun will be aiming as well as making an side firing angle (angle between your gun and your hull) narrower, forcing you to push almost frontally instead of doing sidescrapping. The mobility of the CA Lorraine makes it formidable when it comes to flanking as it is able to "Hit N' Run" and destroy or incapacitate enemies with relative speed. Be aware of your reload rate as you do not have autoloader (compared to [[Lorraine 40t]] which uses the same gun, the CA Lorraine reloads in 11.1s stock without upgrades and Lorraine 40t in 4.0s regardless the crew or upgrades), this makes a huge disadvantage as you will be vulnerable after each shot, make each shot count. Aim for gunner, cannon breech or ammunition to disable and destroy tanks as an error will cost your life. Having only 50 mm of frontal armour makes the Lorraine only capable of withstanding some SPAA fire ([[Wirbelwind]], [[M42]], etc) but will be penetrated by all tank guns at its BR and even SPAA at point blank range.
 +
 
 +
'''When in rural combat:'''
 +
 
 +
The Lorraine is a pretty decent sniper at its BR but this is by far one of the best combat roles the Lorraine can have. The 6x sight and the high muzzle velocity will make sniping easier than with other tanks at its BR. It should be noted that the CA Lorraine will not be able to withstand many frontal attacks even at range (PzGr 39 fired from KwK36, 42, 43 and 48 will penetrate the upper frontal plate with ease). Always stay on the move when possible. Fire and move. This is to make each attack unpredictable as people are prompt of revenge killing you with a tank or with an aircraft, always stay aware of your surroundings and stay away from suspicious locations enemies can look forward to detect and engage you.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''-->
+
<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
 +
 
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
Line 202: Line 119:
 
* Capable of neutral steering
 
* Capable of neutral steering
 
* Strong gun mantlet may bounce shots
 
* Strong gun mantlet may bounce shots
−
* Fast with very good maneuverability
+
* Fast with very good manoeuvrability
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* Weak armor all around
+
* Weak armour all around
−
* Engines and fuel tanks only have 8mm armor, very vulnerable from above
+
* Engines and fuel tanks only have 8mm armour, very vulnerable from above
 
* Reload rate is not impressive
 
* Reload rate is not impressive
 
* Poor gun depression (-6)
 
* Poor gun depression (-6)
Line 217: Line 134:
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== Encyclopedia Info ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
−
The CA Lorraine was developed and tested in the late 1940s, but never saw active service.
+
 
 +
===Design===
 +
In the late 1940s, the French Army was looking to replace the medium tanks Panther and ARL 44 that were becoming obsolete with a new 50t medium tank. Other concepts were explored in parallel to the 50t medium tank: a 25t light tank and a 25t light tank destroyer. The French company Lorraine was tasked with the tank destroyer bid and proposed the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine. Clearly inspired from the layout of the Jagdpanzer IV and the Jagdpanther, the CA Lorraine was to assume the same support role on the battlefield along light and medium tanks.
 +
 
 +
===Development===
 +
A 100 mm SA 47 L/58 gun was chosen to equip on the tank and the armour was kept to a mimimum to save weight and increase mobility. The vehicle featured pneumatic tires in place of road wheels. The upsides of such tires were the possibility to still move the tank destroyer when detracked, a weight reduction and thus a reduced ground pressure and an increased top speed. A prototype was built between 1950 and 1952 but the project was terminated in 1953. The tank destroyer weighed 25 tons, carried 40 shells and could reach 60 km/h. With the experience from the Korean war, the concept of dedicated tank destroyers was gradually abandoned in NATO armies to focus on armoured divisions composed uniquely of main battle tanks.
 +
 
 +
===Combat usage===
 +
The CA Lorraine never saw either service or combat action with the French Army. Its chassis and many other parts were later reused in the development of the Lorraine 40t as well as in other projects.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
−
<!--''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''-->
+
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
−
Skin and Camouflages for the [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicleCountry=france&vehicleType=tank&vehicleClass=tank_destroyer&vehicle=fr_lorraine_100 CA Lorraine] in Warthunder Live.
+
 
 +
;Skins
 +
 
 +
* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=fr_lorraine_100 Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
 +
 
 +
;Videos
 +
{{Youtube-gallery|wSIXMQ0Gln4|'''The CA Lorraine, French, Tier-4, Tank Destroyer''' - ''Angry Nerd Gaming''|Gv-Fm4s2iwM|'''CA Lorraine - Fun, Fast 'n Furious''' - ''Napalmratte''}}
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
−
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
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* [[Wikipedia:AMX-50#Char_Lorraine|[Wikipedia<nowiki>]</nowiki> AMX-50 - Char Lorraine]]
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* [[wikipedia:Canon_D%27Assaut_Lorraine|[Wikipedia] Canon D'Assaut Lorraine]]
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* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/lorraine-40t <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia]</nowiki> Lorraine 40t]
  
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{{TankManufacturer Lorraine}}
 
{{France tank destroyers}}
 
{{France tank destroyers}}

Latest revision as of 10:33, 22 October 2023

Rank VI | Premium | Golden Eagles
Chinese A-5C Pack
CA Lorraine
fr_lorraine_100.png
GarageImage CA Lorraine.jpg
CA Lorraine
France flag.png France
IV Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
5.7 6.0 6.0
Class:
Research:54 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:185 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

The Canon d'Assaut Lorraine de 100 mm is a French prototype tank destroyer based on the AMX M4 medium tank project's chassis. Following World War II, the French Army launched several programs to replace their antiquated tanks. The Lorraine company was charged with developing a light tank destroyer. The Canon d'Assaut Lorraine used Veil-Picard pneumatic tires instead of regular road wheels, which reduced the vehicle's ground pressure. Another advantage of the tires is that even if the tracks are destroyed, the vehicle can continue to operate. The prototype was started in 1950 but did not finish until 1952. The project was cancelled in 1953. The expertise gained by developing the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine would eventually serve as the foundation for other Lorraine initiatives.

Introduced in Update 1.75 "La Résistance", the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine de 100 mm is a versatile tank destroyer that may be deployed in a variety of ways, although it will always rely on its speed. In terms of maximum speed, cross-country speed, turn time, neutral steering, and reverse speed, this tank destroyer is among the most agile in its class. It should not, however, be utilized as an assault tank leading the attack against the enemy. As there is no turret, players should avoid close-up combat with adversaries. Use it mostly to ambush foes by flanking them early in battles. Since the vehicle has incredibly weak armour overall, you should always reposition after firing.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull50 / 30 / 25
Turret50 / 30 / 25
Crew5 people
Visibility81 %

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour (casemate, cupola)
  • Cast homogeneous armour (gun mantlet)
  • Wheel (tires)
Armour Front Sides Rear Roof
Hull 50 mm (54°) Front glacis
35 mm (61°) Lower glacis
60-150 (0-88°) + 35-60 mm (2-88°) Gun mantlet		 30 mm (15°) Top
30 mm Bottom 		25 mm (23°) Upper glacis
25 mm (54°) Lower glacis 		20 mm Front
20 mm (7°) Rear
8 mm (7°) Radiator and engine vents
Cupola 50 mm (spherical) 20 mm

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels, tracks and torsion bars are 20 mm thick.

Its sloped, medium thickness frontal armour will not protect you from anything bigger than SPAA shots (some may even get through in close quarters) but it is certainly sufficient for what it is designed to do: protecting from stray bullets in long range engagements. Side and top armour are also quite weak, so don't expect to survive any kind of surprise coming from side or top. Still, this tank has 5 crew members, which can often save it from a quick destruction.

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB68 / 18 km/h
RB and SB63 / 17 km/h
Number of gears6 forward
1 back
Weight25.0 t
Engine power
AB1 307 hp
RB and SB685 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB52.3 hp/t
RB and SB27.4 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 68 18 25 973 1,307 38.92 52.28
Realistic 63 17 606 685 24.24 27.4

If anyone thought the Lorraine 40t was a sprinter, this is even better. The CA Lorraine is fast. Not only in forward motion is it fast, it can reverse at a decent, constant, -16 km/h and it has ability to neutral steer, these enable fast reaction to quickly changing battlefield odds such as flanking manoeuvres or enemy breakthrough. An experienced player can take clear advantage over its foes by achieving good placement and this tank is the perfect tool for this task.

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB2 955 → 3 655 Sl icon.png
RB3 443 → 4 258 Sl icon.png
SB4 617 → 5 711 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications46 600 Rp icon.png
84 900 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost1 500 Ge icon.png
Crew training52 000 Sl icon.png
Experts185 000 Sl icon.png
Aces710 Ge icon.png
Research Aces480 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
110 / 180 / 230 % Sl icon.png
166 / 166 / 166 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
3 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 600 Sl icon.png
140 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 700 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 700 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
3 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
7 100 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
7 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
14 000 Sl icon.png
340 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
7 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
14 000 Sl icon.png
340 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
3 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 600 Sl icon.png
140 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 700 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement fr.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
3 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
7 100 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
3 100 Rp icon.png
Cost:
5 600 Sl icon.png
140 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
2 600 Rp icon.png
Cost:
4 700 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
3 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
7 100 Sl icon.png
175 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

100 mm SA47 L/58 cannon
Ammunition40 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
11.1 → 8.6 s
Vertical guidance-6° / 16°
Horizontal guidance-9° / 9°
Main article: SA47 L/58 (100 mm)

This gun platform uses the usual French rank IV 100 mm SA47 L/58 cannon with a twist: it has no autoloader mechanism, hence making reload time twice as long. However, at its battle rating, the gun packs an awesome 300 mm of penetration that ensures it can punch well above its own rank. The large shell calibre also means it can create quite a lot of fragments inside a tank, making the lack of explosive filler not so bad, as long as you land a good hit.

Keep that in mind as your foes get closer and closer to you: these precious 11 seconds of reload time are the perfect time to intent a frontal attack, even more so since you don't have automatic firepower of any form. Always have a backup plan, in case your single shot doesn't fully disable your target.

100 mm SA47 L/58 Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 40 -6°/+16° ±9° N/A 5.3 7.3 8.9 9.8 10.4 11.18 9.89 9.12 8.60
Realistic 3.6 4.2 5.1 5.6 6.0

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
Obus de rupture APCBC 273 270 257 242 228 215
Obus explosif HE 30 30 28 26 24 22
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Fuse delay
(m) 		Fuse sensitivity
(mm) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (kg) 		Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
Obus de rupture APCBC 1,000 15 - - - 48° 63° 71°
Obus explosif HE 1,000 14.8 0.2 0.1 1.4 79° 80° 81°

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the CA Lorraine
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		Visual
discrepancy
40 31 (+9) 21 (+19) 11 (+29) 1 (+39) No

Note:

  • Shells are modeled individually and disappear after having been shot or loaded.

Usage in battles

The CA Lorraine can be used in different ways, but in all cases it will be relying on its speed. The CA Lorraine is one of the most agile tanks at its battle rating in terms of max speed, cross country speed, turn time, neutral steering and reverse. The CA Lorraine should not be used as an assault tank (often confused with the AMX-50 Foch). Use your speed as your main advantage.

When in urban combat:

The Lorraine has a big disadvantage when it comes to urban combat, it is turretless, meaning the tank will have to turn in order to aim at a certain place. This also makes crossing corners harder as the lack of turret reduces where your gun will be aiming as well as making an side firing angle (angle between your gun and your hull) narrower, forcing you to push almost frontally instead of doing sidescrapping. The mobility of the CA Lorraine makes it formidable when it comes to flanking as it is able to "Hit N' Run" and destroy or incapacitate enemies with relative speed. Be aware of your reload rate as you do not have autoloader (compared to Lorraine 40t which uses the same gun, the CA Lorraine reloads in 11.1s stock without upgrades and Lorraine 40t in 4.0s regardless the crew or upgrades), this makes a huge disadvantage as you will be vulnerable after each shot, make each shot count. Aim for gunner, cannon breech or ammunition to disable and destroy tanks as an error will cost your life. Having only 50 mm of frontal armour makes the Lorraine only capable of withstanding some SPAA fire (Wirbelwind, M42, etc) but will be penetrated by all tank guns at its BR and even SPAA at point blank range.

When in rural combat:

The Lorraine is a pretty decent sniper at its BR but this is by far one of the best combat roles the Lorraine can have. The 6x sight and the high muzzle velocity will make sniping easier than with other tanks at its BR. It should be noted that the CA Lorraine will not be able to withstand many frontal attacks even at range (PzGr 39 fired from KwK36, 42, 43 and 48 will penetrate the upper frontal plate with ease). Always stay on the move when possible. Fire and move. This is to make each attack unpredictable as people are prompt of revenge killing you with a tank or with an aircraft, always stay aware of your surroundings and stay away from suspicious locations enemies can look forward to detect and engage you.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Good firepower, uses the same gun as AMX-50-100 and Lorraine 40t
  • Very good penetration, definitely usable in uptiered games
  • Exceptionally fast reverse speed
  • Fairly low profile
  • Capable of neutral steering
  • Strong gun mantlet may bounce shots
  • Fast with very good manoeuvrability

Cons:

  • Weak armour all around
  • Engines and fuel tanks only have 8mm armour, very vulnerable from above
  • Reload rate is not impressive
  • Poor gun depression (-6)
  • No HE filler in AP shots means precision is necessary
  • No coaxial MG
  • Low gun placement
  • Somewhat weak optic zoom
  • Large ammo racks on both sides of the hull

History

Design

In the late 1940s, the French Army was looking to replace the medium tanks Panther and ARL 44 that were becoming obsolete with a new 50t medium tank. Other concepts were explored in parallel to the 50t medium tank: a 25t light tank and a 25t light tank destroyer. The French company Lorraine was tasked with the tank destroyer bid and proposed the Canon d'Assaut Lorraine. Clearly inspired from the layout of the Jagdpanzer IV and the Jagdpanther, the CA Lorraine was to assume the same support role on the battlefield along light and medium tanks.

Development

A 100 mm SA 47 L/58 gun was chosen to equip on the tank and the armour was kept to a mimimum to save weight and increase mobility. The vehicle featured pneumatic tires in place of road wheels. The upsides of such tires were the possibility to still move the tank destroyer when detracked, a weight reduction and thus a reduced ground pressure and an increased top speed. A prototype was built between 1950 and 1952 but the project was terminated in 1953. The tank destroyer weighed 25 tons, carried 40 shells and could reach 60 km/h. With the experience from the Korean war, the concept of dedicated tank destroyers was gradually abandoned in NATO armies to focus on armoured divisions composed uniquely of main battle tanks.

Combat usage

The CA Lorraine never saw either service or combat action with the French Army. Its chassis and many other parts were later reused in the development of the Lorraine 40t as well as in other projects.

Media

Skins
Videos
The CA Lorraine, French, Tier-4, Tank Destroyer - Angry Nerd Gaming
CA Lorraine - Fun, Fast 'n Furious - Napalmratte

See also

Vehicles equipped with the same chassis
Other vehicles of similar configuration and role

External links


Lorraine
Tanks 
Medium tanks  Lorraine 40t
Tank destroyers  Lorraine 37L · CA Lorraine · Lorraine 155 Mle.50

France tank destroyers
Lorraine 40t derivatives  CA Lorraine · Lorraine 155 Mle.50
ATGM  MEPHISTO · AMX-10M
Other  AMR.35 ZT3 · Lorraine 37L · SAu 40 · ARL-44 · ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch · AuF1
USA  ▄M10 GMC · ▄M36B2

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