Difference between revisions of "M8 HMC (China)"

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(Ammunition: Updated)
(Usage in battles, Pros and Cons)
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<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
 
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
  
In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. The massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously have difficulty destroying are now more easily dealt with. Like the M3/M5 Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. Push for the cap and then take it without hesitation. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. Get behind their turret and go for a shot to the turret rear. Once the capture point is held, find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.
+
In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up [[M5A1 (China)|M5A1]]. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. Like the [[M3 Stuart (Family)|M3]]/[[M5 Stuart (Family)|M5]] Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. A recommended shot is flaking to hit the turret rear, as ammunition racks are located there in a majority of armored vehicles. Once the capture point is held, it is recommended to find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.
  
Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. Hence a good hull down position on their flank can provide a good position to hit their side armour, with almost certain destruction coming from it.
+
When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, Tank Destroyers and trucks, the 75mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it.  
  
Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2|Panzer IV F2]] and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the vehicle to encounter. Aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range, leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.
+
Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armored. Keep in mind that some tanks like the [[Pz.III M]], [[Pz.III N (Italy)|Pz.III N]], and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armor. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it.
 +
 
 +
Tanks like the [[Pz.IV F2|Pz.IV F2]] and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.
 +
 
 +
If you finds itself under attack from the air, it is recommended to find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
Line 166: Line 170:
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
* Great firepower, HEAT handles everything. Hull-breaking soft targets like the [[LVT(A)(1)|LVT(A)]], to piercing tough adversaries like the [[B1 bis|B1]] and [[Matilda III|Matilda]]
+
* Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to pierce tough adversaries like the [[B1 bis|B1 bis]] and [[Matilda III|Matilda II]]
* 12.7 mm heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating as most tanks have thin armour, for example the [[BT-7]], [[Marder III|Marder]]
+
* 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the [[Ha-Go]] or the [[He 51 C-1]]
* Extremely rare gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
+
* Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
* When hull-down its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm
+
* When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the [[Pz.II (Disambiguation)|Pz.II]]s' 20 mm
* Fast reloads for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
+
* Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
 
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
 
* Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
* Speed and mobility akin to the [[M5A1|Stuart]] light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease
+
* Speed and mobility of the [[M5 Stuart (Family)|Stuart]] light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
* Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging; short gun is also bad for long range engagements (requires to predict the enemies' location to make up for the slow turret)
+
* Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized
 +
* Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements
 
* Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
 
* Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
* Thin armour and tightly placed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the [[SU-76M]]
+
* Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the [[SU-76M]]
* Shells have low muzzle velocity hence a huge drop; hard for shooting long-range or moving targets
+
* Shells have low muzzle velocity which can be difficult to understand
* Bad steering at high speeds
+
* Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
 
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<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
 
[[File:ROCA M8 Scott Display in Chengkungling.jpg|thumb|250x250px|An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.]]
 
[[File:ROCA M8 Scott Display in Chengkungling.jpg|thumb|250x250px|An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.]]
The Republic of China's M8'' Scott ''Howitzers were purchased around 1948 to the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 ''Priest'' and M4 ''Sherman.''
+
The Republic of China's M8'' Scott ''Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 ''Priest'' self-propelled guns and [[M4 Sherman (Family)|M4 Sherman]] medium tanks.
  
Around 1948, the '''Chinese Civil War''' battles were yet ongoing. This numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces; and their rising superiority in tank numbers. This superiority leads to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.
+
In 1948, the '''Chinese Civil War''' battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.
  
The M8s were designated to provide close self-artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and is uncertain if the ''Scotts'' took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil war aside than training exercises.
+
The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the ''Scotts'' took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises.
  
There are several preserved M8 currently in display in Taiwan.
+
There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==

Revision as of 17:24, 8 February 2022

Rank VI USA | Premium | Golden Eagles
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This page is about the SPG M8 HMC (China). For other vehicles of the family, see M8 General Scott (Family). For other uses, see M8 (Disambiguation).
␗M8 HMC
us_m8_scott.png
GarageImage M8 HMC (China).jpg
␗M8 HMC
AB RB SB
1.3 1.3 1.3
Research:2 900 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:700 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

The ␗75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 is a rank I Chinese tank destroyer with a battle rating of 1.3 (AB/RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.91 "Night Vision".

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull28 / 28 / 25
Turret38 / 25 / 25
Crew4 people
Visibility79 %

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet)
Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 28.5 mm (48-49°) Front Glacis
38.1 mm (15-30°) Lower glacis
28.5 mm Front
25.4 mm Rear
25.4 mm (1-47°) Top
25.4 mm (1-20°) Bottom
12.7 mm
Turret 38.1 mm (6-40°) Turret front
38.1 mm (1-65°) Gun mantlet
25.4 mm (18-20°) 25.4 mm (1°) N/A

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels are 15 mm thick while tracks are 10 mm thick.
  • Tracks are peppered on the turret sides that give 17 mm extra where they are.
  • Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB70 / 19 km/h
RB and SB64 / 17 km/h
Number of gears8 forward
2 back
Weight15.6 t
Engine power
AB565 hp
RB and SB296 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB36.2 hp/t
RB and SB19.0 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 70 19 15.6 420 565 26.92 36.22
Realistic 64 17 262 296 16.79 18.97

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB93 → 115 Sl icon.png
RB107 → 132 Sl icon.png
SB126 → 155 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications2 970 Rp icon.png
890 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost190 Ge icon.png
Crew training200 Sl icon.png
Experts1 000 Sl icon.png
Aces20 Ge icon.png
Research Aces96 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
10 / 20 / 20 % Sl icon.png
100 / 100 / 100 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement cn.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
200 Rp icon.png
Cost:
60 Sl icon.png
50 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
165 Rp icon.png
Cost:
50 Sl icon.png
40 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
250 Rp icon.png
Cost:
75 Sl icon.png
65 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
75mm_us_M89_Smoke_ammo_pack
Research:
320 Rp icon.png
Cost:
95 Sl icon.png
80 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

Ammunition46 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
4.3 → 3.3 s
Vertical guidance-20° / 40°
Main article: M2 Howitzer (75 mm)
75 mm M2 Howitzer Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 46 -20°/+40° ±180° N/A 5.28 7.31 8.88 9.82 10.45 4.29 3.80 3.50 3.30
Realistic 3.57 4.20 5.10 5.64 6.00

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
M48 shell HE 10 10 10 10 10 10
M66 HEAT 89 89 89 89 89 89
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Velocity
(m/s)
Projectile
Mass (kg)
Fuse delay
(m)
Fuse sensitivity
(mm)
Explosive Mass
(TNT equivalent) (g)
Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
M48 shell HE 381 6.3 0 0.1 666 79° 80° 81°
M66 HEAT 304 6.02 0.05 0.1 548.13 62° 69° 73°
Smoke shell characteristics
Ammunition Velocity
(m/s)
Projectile
Mass (kg)
Screen radius
(m)
Screen deploy time
(s)
Screen hold time
(s)
Explosive Mass
(TNT equivalent) (g)
M64 381 6.9 13 5 20 50

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the M8 HMC (China)
Full
ammo
1st
rack empty
2nd
rack empty
3rd
rack empty
4th
rack empty
Visual
discrepancy
46 35 (+11) 23 (+23) 12 (+34) (+45) No

Machine guns

Ammunition400 rounds
Belt capacity200 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
10.4 → 8.0 s
Fire rate575 shots/min
Vertical guidance-5° / 70°
Main article: M2HB (12.7 mm)
12.7 mm M2HB
Mount Capacity (Belt) Fire rate Vertical Horizontal
Pintle 400 (200) 576 -5°/+70° ±180°

Usage in battles

In general, the M8 Scott plays like a beefed-up M5A1. Being based on the same chassis, the massive increase in gun calibre and destructive potential means that enemies the light tank previously had difficulty destroying can now be dealt with more easily. Like the M3/M5 Stuart, playing this tank aggressively will almost always guarantee a place on the leaderboard. One strategy is to push for the capture point and take it immediately using the high speed the chassis is capable of reaching. Should an enemy get there first, enter the cap and flank the target. A recommended shot is flaking to hit the turret rear, as ammunition racks are located there in a majority of armored vehicles. Once the capture point is held, it is recommended to find a good hull down position and use the 75 mm HEAT to destroy any and all oncoming tanks.

When attacking open-topped vehicles like SPAAs, Tank Destroyers and trucks, the 75mm HEAT round can demolish a vehicle in one hit. If the 75mm is reloading or is unoperational, the .50 cal M2HB machine gun can be used to great effect against the target. This machine gun can even be used from behind cover, with the entire vehicle hidden behind an object and the machine gun poking up and over it.

Against heavier armour, the need to find a good hidden position is critical. On certain tanks, the addition of track armour can give the M8 difficulty in penetrating them. A good hull down position on their flank can provide a shot to hit their side armour, which is generally less armored. Keep in mind that some tanks like the Pz.III M, Pz.III N, and the 41M Turan II are equipped with sideskirts and spaced armor. These are designed to counter HEAT rounds and often can absorb at least one HEAT round with no damage to the components behind it.

Tanks like the Pz.IV F2 and it's line of tanks can be a serious headache for the M8 Scott. A recommended strategy is to aim for the right side of their turret and knock-out their gunner first, then aim for the middle of their hull (upper or lower glacis works) for a final shot. Outside of that, most of the heavy armour will be out of the M8's BR range leaving most encountered vehicles viable to destroy.

If you finds itself under attack from the air, it is recommended to find cover as the M8 Scott's roof is open to any and all strafing fire. Once sufficient cover is found, you can switch to the cupola-mounted M2HB and attempt to shoot down the attackers. The .50 cal machine gun can output a decent amount of damage against critical components on an aircraft, and can pilot snipe an enemy due to its high penetration.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Great firepower, HEAT has enough power to pierce tough adversaries like the B1 bis and Matilda II
  • 12.7 mm M2HB heavy machine gun is lethal at the battle rating and can quickly destroy vehicles like the Ha-Go or the He 51 C-1
  • Excellent gun depression of -20 degrees, able to peek above almost every slope and launch surprise attacks
  • When hull-down, its double layer turret front can bounce some low-calibre or low-penetrating shells like the Pz.IIs' 20 mm
  • Very fast reload for the calibre allows quick follow up shots
  • Low muzzle velocity shell's parabolic path can allow for shooting over hills which can be surprisingly useful
  • Speed and mobility of the Stuart light tanks, allowing it to manoeuvre and flank with ease

Cons:

  • Extremely slow turret traverse makes CQB challenging, especially if the vehicle is immobilized
  • Short gun can be difficult to use in long range engagements
  • Open-top turret exposes crew to artillery and aircraft strafing fire
  • Thin armour and tightly packed crew makes it very vulnerable to tank destroyers that have APHE, like the SU-76M
  • Shells have low muzzle velocity which can be difficult to understand
  • Tightly packed crew which can be knocked out easily

History

An M8 in display in Chengkungling, History Museum.

The Republic of China's M8 Scott Howitzer Motor Carriages were purchased around 1948 from the United States. Approximately 200 M8 arrived in Taiwan alongside batches of M7 Priest self-propelled guns and M4 Sherman medium tanks.

In 1948, the Chinese Civil War battles were still ongoing. Numerous battles were won by the Communist Party of China's armoured forces and they started to show rising superiority in tank and troop numbers. This superiority lead to their eventual total control of mainland China and the retreat of the Kuomintang to Taiwan.

The M8s were designated to provide close artillery support in case of massive Communist amphibious assaults in Taiwan and adjacent islands. This large-scale invasion never occurred and it is uncertain if the Scotts took any part in combat on the Chinese Civil War aside from training exercises.

There are several preserved M8s currently in display in Taiwan.

Media

Skins
Videos

See also

US similar versions

External links

  • "Tanke Mao," Ching-shih Ch'iang-chia, and T'ien Li-jen: "The Evolution of the Republic of China Army Armored Artillery." Illustrated Guide of Weapons & Tactics [兵器戰術圖解], v20 May 2005, p78-82.
  • The Developmental History of the Nationalist Armored Force [國軍裝甲兵發展史] by Said Mohamed 孫建中; Sun Chien-chung, 2005


China tank destroyers
PLA 
Gun vehicles  PLZ83 · PLZ83-130 · PTZ89
Missile vehicles  AFT09
ROC 
Missile vehicles  CM25
USA 
Gun vehicles  ␗M8 HMC · LVT(A)(4) (ZiS-2) · ␗M10 GMC · ␗M36 GMC
Missile vehicles  ␗M113A1 (TOW)
USSR 
Gun vehicles  ␗SU-76M · ␗ISU-152 · ␗ISU-122 · ␗SU-100