Difference between revisions of "SIDAM 25 (Mistral)"
Thundrbird (talk | contribs) (→Main armament: Corrected the information about the amount of ammo) (Tag: Visual edit) |
(page done) (Tag: Visual edit) |
||
| Line 180: | Line 180: | ||
<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' --> | ||
| − | The SIDAM, with | + | The SIDAM-25 can be quite deadly when used right, players who have unlocked this machine will get to experience for the first time inside the tree, an anti air vehicle with firepower that rivals or in some instances, is more effective than other nations counterparts. The best way to play with the Sidam-25 is to play very defensively. Due to it being based on top the widespread chassis known as the M113, the Sidam sadly does not have the best performance on or off road, even a small incline will seriously impact your overall mobility when using the vehicle. It is best to stick to flat grounds where your vehicle can be much easier to control. The M113 also does not have the best survivalbility, so in that the Sidam also sadly suffers in that area, so it is best to stick with more protected teammates or to flat out stay away from any type of enemy ground vehicles. Artillery will also be able to pressure damage you so in that case you should try your best to move away and avoid getting hit by it in the first place. In case any vehicles breach your defenses you do have access to a small amount of APDS rounds, they might be able to deal with lightly armored vehicles, and for the more heavier and protected vehicles, the APDS will at times penetrate and damage enemy tanks. The Sidam-25's APDS can penetrate up to 81mm of armor. Do keep in mind that the APDS is a tier 3 modification so you'll have to research it before having access to it. Due to the very low amount you have access to it is highly advised you use it strictly only for self defense, going on the attack with APDS will not usually work out for you, especially on the Sidam considering the factors i mentioned earlier, being slow, and not having very good mobility, not being very survivable, and overall being a very big target are all downsides for the Sidam-25. You can negate the APDS shortage by being close to a capture point, as not only will it replenish your main ammunition to keep you focused on shooting down air targets, but it will allow you to be a bit more wild with the APDS, as you'll be able to quickly replenish it easily, to allow you to last longer on the battlefield. So overall for the Sidam, the best tactic is to try your best to remain or at least be near a capture point. In the Anti-Air sector, you sadly do not have access to a radar, unlike other nation counterparts at you battle-rating. What you do have access to however is an optronic tracking system, which allows targets to be tracked, and provides one of the most most accurate lead indicators for any vehicle. This will allow you to predict flight paths of any enemy air vehicles you'll be facing. Another great thing about the optronic system, is that it cannot be detected by radar trackers on enemy helicopters, making it much easier for you to target them, and hopefully take them out with a quick barrage of you main gun. Speaking of which, the Sidam's main armament consists of 4 25mm guns, they have a combined firepower of 2200 rounds per minuite. More than enough to deal with most of the aircraft you'll face, to help you also have access to a stabilizer, which will furthermore aid you in firefights against both ground and air vehicles. In terms of the Matra mistrals launchers it has access to although at times can prove to be a great asset, is also on the top of the turret, leaving them very exposed. Much like most anti-aircraft and missile tanks, if these missiles are hit while still in the launchers, they will most likely detonate and cause damage to the vehicle. They are best used when low flying aircraft are inbound, or when they have just pulled up from a dive. Do not attempt to try and take out fast moving planes as they will prove very difficult for the missiles to track. Also considering it only has a maximum range of 5.5km, other similar missile SPAA's will still outpeform you from long ranges. |
=== Pros and cons === | === Pros and cons === | ||
| Line 189: | Line 189: | ||
* Compared to the previous SIDAM 25, the Mistral model has SAMs | * Compared to the previous SIDAM 25, the Mistral model has SAMs | ||
* Has reasonable mobility | * Has reasonable mobility | ||
| − | * Cannons have relatively high rate of fire | + | * Cannons have relatively high rate of fire (550 RPM on the 25 mm guns, a combined 2200 RPM) |
* The APDS belt can go through most tanks' side armour | * The APDS belt can go through most tanks' side armour | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Has an optronic tracking system allowing targets to be tracked and providing a lead indicator | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Optronic system cannot be detected by radar trackers on enemy helicopters, making it much easier for you to target them | ||
'''Cons:''' | '''Cons:''' | ||
| Line 196: | Line 200: | ||
* Armour is extremely inadequate, heavy machine guns even from a far can cut right trough | * Armour is extremely inadequate, heavy machine guns even from a far can cut right trough | ||
* Without the HEI-T ammo belt the main cannons are rather inadequate against most top tier aircraft | * Without the HEI-T ammo belt the main cannons are rather inadequate against most top tier aircraft | ||
| − | * Missiles can only be | + | * Missiles can only be utilized for anti-air attacks |
* Missile launchers are highly exposed on the top of the tank | * Missile launchers are highly exposed on the top of the tank | ||
* Does not have a search radar | * Does not have a search radar | ||
* Limited APDS ammunition, can only carry 60 rounds | * Limited APDS ammunition, can only carry 60 rounds | ||
* Missiles have an absolute maximum range of 5.5 km | * Missiles have an absolute maximum range of 5.5 km | ||
| − | * Suffers heavily from | + | * Suffers heavily from pressure-damage |
== History == | == History == | ||
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | <!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' --> | ||
| + | |||
| + | The SIDAM-25 was made during the cold war (the SIDAM system started in about 1980 and first two prototypes were trialed in 1983), Italy wanted to find a suitable anti-air vehicle that would be on par with the soviet unions and Warsaw pact ones. But also NATO ones such as the German Gepard and the American M163 VADS. Its primary goal was to take out out low flying aircraft but it was provided a secondary capability against lightly armored targets thanks to the types of ammunition it had access to, such as APDS, HEI and SAPHEI. There had been some contenders on what the next anti air vehicle would be, but the Italian Ministry of defense ended up supporting the SIDAM-25 and started to place orders for the vehicle. The Sidam-25 would be based on the American M113 chassis then built under license, mainly it was chosen as it had local production and allowed for a cheap supply of parts and easy maintenance and training. However, to carry the impressive quad system, a large array of modifications had to be carried out including the removal of the single fuel tank replaced with twin tanks either side of the new engine and updated suspension to cope with the increased weight. Although to the outsiders it may look like a decent SPAA (which it is in a way, on a good day), but the actual production version lacked radar and any form of night vision/thermal vision. Why you may ask yourself? Well the issue was not that it wasn't planned, infact the SIDAM-25 was advertised at the time to be able to utilize night vision and the thermal vision, however there was an issue, cost. The SIDAM-25 project ended up costing Italy too much, so they had to remove things from the actual prototypes such as, night vision and the thermal imaging, it ended up having an entirely different turret (the one currently in game). In retrospect Italy could've acquired the OTOMATIC with that money, which although it would lead to less units, it would've been great if they went for quality over quantity. Sadly the SIDAM-25 lived a short life, In total 276 of such systems were produced from 1985, they'd slowly be taken out of active service and put in storage. Most of them have been used for its main armament, and installed unto the Italian army 'Freccia IFV' which uses the same 25mm the Sidam once used. The Sidam-25 would only ever be exported to a private military collector in Belgium, in an estimated 40 units. There was also plans on installing the Sidam quad mount unto another Oto-Melara project, the C-13, however due to political reasons that would not end up happening. In terms of Sidam upgrades, modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994. The Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Matra Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole. Sadly, the Mistral program which aimed to upgrade the Italian Sidams would not be picked up. | ||
| + | |||
| + | '''Devblog''' | ||
| + | |||
Modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994, when Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole. | Modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994, when Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole. | ||
Revision as of 14:26, 15 May 2021
.jpg)
Contents
Description
The Sistema Italiano Difesa Aerea Mobile, 25mm (Mistral) is a rank VII Italian SPAA with a battle rating of 10.0 (AB) and 9.7 (RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.91 "Night Vision".
General info
Survivability and armour
Armour type:
- Aluminium Alloy 7039
- Structural steel
- Steel (Cannons and Missile Launchers)
| Armour | Front (Slope angle) | Sides | Rear | Roof |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hull | 38 mm (46°), 29 mm (46°) Front glacis
38 mm (25°) Lower glacis |
44 mm Top
32 mm Bottom |
38 mm (10°) | 38 mm (89°) Front
38 mm (89°) Rear |
| Turret | 38 mm (24°) Turret front
25 mm (1°) Gun mantlet |
25 mm (0°) | 25 mm (1°) | 25 mm (89°) |
Mobility
| Game Mode | Max Speed (km/h) | Weight (tons) | Engine power (horsepower) | Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton) | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Forward | Reverse | Stock | Upgraded | Stock | Upgraded | ||
| Arcade | 70 | 17 | 14.3 | 301 | 404 | 21.05 | 28.25 |
| Realistic | 65 | 15 | 188 | 212 | 13.15 | 14.83 | |
Modifications and economy
| Mobility | Protection | Firepower | ||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
|
Armaments
Main armament
The SIDAM 25 (Mistral) is armed with 4 x 25 mm cannons, with the main purpose of destroying aircraft. Like almost all SPAA armaments, these cannons are not designed to disable or destroy tanks. It is capable of destroying other SPAA, and some SPGs, but it is limited in its anti-tank effectiveness. It carries 660 rounds in total, giving 165 rounds per cannon.
| 25 mm Oerlikon KBA (x4) | Turret rotation speed (°/s) | Reloading rate (seconds) | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mode | Capacity (Belt) | Fire rate | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | Stock | Upgraded | Full | Expert | Aced | Stock | Full | Expert | Aced |
| Arcade | 660 (150) | 550 | -5°/+87° | ±180° | Two-plane | 105.7 | __._ | __._ | __._ | __._ | _.__ | _.__ | _.__ | _.__ |
| Realistic | 71.4 | __._ | __._ | __._ | __._ | |||||||||
Ammunition
| Penetration statistics | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm) | |||||
| 10 m | 100 m | 500 m | 1,000 m | 1,500 m | 2,000 m | ||
| M792 | HEI-T* | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| M791 | APDS | 81 | 80 | 76 | 70 | 66 | 61 |
| Shell details | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Projectile Mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
Ricochet | ||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | |||||||
| M792 | HEI-T* | 1,100 | 0.5 | 0 | 0.1 | 54.4 | 79° | 80° | 81° |
| M791 | APDS | 1,345 | 0.13 | N/A | N/A | N/A | 75° | 78° | 80° |
Ammo racks
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
2nd rack empty |
3rd rack empty |
4th rack empty |
5th rack empty |
6th rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2 | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ |
Additional armament
The SIDAM also possesses 6 surface-to-air (SAM) Launchers, for its Mistral missiles. These can be guided by the Optical tracking system onto the target and have an approximate effective range of 4 km. However jets will most likely to evade the missiles if fired from this range, so it is suggested that you wait to fire these at a closer range than 4 km where it will be more difficult for them to react and evade. The history section (at the bottom of this page) suggests that using the cannon at short range, and missiles for longer range targets, is the best tactic.
| Mistral SATCP missile | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Capacity (Belt) | Vertical | Horizontal | Stabilizer | |
| 6 (6) | -5°/+87° | ±180° | Two-plane | |
Ammunition
| Shell details | ||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ammunition | Type of warhead |
Velocity (m/s) |
Range (m) |
Projectile Mass (kg) |
Fuse delay (m) |
Fuse sensitivity (mm) |
Explosive Mass (TNT equivalent) (g) |
Ricochet | ||
| 0% | 50% | 100% | ||||||||
| Mistral SATCP | AAM | 1,000 | 4,000 (all-aspect) | 18.7 | 1 | 10 | 1,780 | 47° | 56° | 65° |
Ammo racks
| Full ammo |
1st rack empty |
2nd rack empty |
3rd rack empty |
4th rack empty |
5th rack empty |
6th rack empty |
Visual discrepancy |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ (+__) | __ |
Usage in battles
The SIDAM-25 can be quite deadly when used right, players who have unlocked this machine will get to experience for the first time inside the tree, an anti air vehicle with firepower that rivals or in some instances, is more effective than other nations counterparts. The best way to play with the Sidam-25 is to play very defensively. Due to it being based on top the widespread chassis known as the M113, the Sidam sadly does not have the best performance on or off road, even a small incline will seriously impact your overall mobility when using the vehicle. It is best to stick to flat grounds where your vehicle can be much easier to control. The M113 also does not have the best survivalbility, so in that the Sidam also sadly suffers in that area, so it is best to stick with more protected teammates or to flat out stay away from any type of enemy ground vehicles. Artillery will also be able to pressure damage you so in that case you should try your best to move away and avoid getting hit by it in the first place. In case any vehicles breach your defenses you do have access to a small amount of APDS rounds, they might be able to deal with lightly armored vehicles, and for the more heavier and protected vehicles, the APDS will at times penetrate and damage enemy tanks. The Sidam-25's APDS can penetrate up to 81mm of armor. Do keep in mind that the APDS is a tier 3 modification so you'll have to research it before having access to it. Due to the very low amount you have access to it is highly advised you use it strictly only for self defense, going on the attack with APDS will not usually work out for you, especially on the Sidam considering the factors i mentioned earlier, being slow, and not having very good mobility, not being very survivable, and overall being a very big target are all downsides for the Sidam-25. You can negate the APDS shortage by being close to a capture point, as not only will it replenish your main ammunition to keep you focused on shooting down air targets, but it will allow you to be a bit more wild with the APDS, as you'll be able to quickly replenish it easily, to allow you to last longer on the battlefield. So overall for the Sidam, the best tactic is to try your best to remain or at least be near a capture point. In the Anti-Air sector, you sadly do not have access to a radar, unlike other nation counterparts at you battle-rating. What you do have access to however is an optronic tracking system, which allows targets to be tracked, and provides one of the most most accurate lead indicators for any vehicle. This will allow you to predict flight paths of any enemy air vehicles you'll be facing. Another great thing about the optronic system, is that it cannot be detected by radar trackers on enemy helicopters, making it much easier for you to target them, and hopefully take them out with a quick barrage of you main gun. Speaking of which, the Sidam's main armament consists of 4 25mm guns, they have a combined firepower of 2200 rounds per minuite. More than enough to deal with most of the aircraft you'll face, to help you also have access to a stabilizer, which will furthermore aid you in firefights against both ground and air vehicles. In terms of the Matra mistrals launchers it has access to although at times can prove to be a great asset, is also on the top of the turret, leaving them very exposed. Much like most anti-aircraft and missile tanks, if these missiles are hit while still in the launchers, they will most likely detonate and cause damage to the vehicle. They are best used when low flying aircraft are inbound, or when they have just pulled up from a dive. Do not attempt to try and take out fast moving planes as they will prove very difficult for the missiles to track. Also considering it only has a maximum range of 5.5km, other similar missile SPAA's will still outpeform you from long ranges.
Pros and cons
Pros:
- Compared to the previous SIDAM 25, the Mistral model has SAMs
- Has reasonable mobility
- Cannons have relatively high rate of fire (550 RPM on the 25 mm guns, a combined 2200 RPM)
- The APDS belt can go through most tanks' side armour
- Has an optronic tracking system allowing targets to be tracked and providing a lead indicator
- Optronic system cannot be detected by radar trackers on enemy helicopters, making it much easier for you to target them
Cons:
- Armour is extremely inadequate, heavy machine guns even from a far can cut right trough
- Without the HEI-T ammo belt the main cannons are rather inadequate against most top tier aircraft
- Missiles can only be utilized for anti-air attacks
- Missile launchers are highly exposed on the top of the tank
- Does not have a search radar
- Limited APDS ammunition, can only carry 60 rounds
- Missiles have an absolute maximum range of 5.5 km
- Suffers heavily from pressure-damage
History
The SIDAM-25 was made during the cold war (the SIDAM system started in about 1980 and first two prototypes were trialed in 1983), Italy wanted to find a suitable anti-air vehicle that would be on par with the soviet unions and Warsaw pact ones. But also NATO ones such as the German Gepard and the American M163 VADS. Its primary goal was to take out out low flying aircraft but it was provided a secondary capability against lightly armored targets thanks to the types of ammunition it had access to, such as APDS, HEI and SAPHEI. There had been some contenders on what the next anti air vehicle would be, but the Italian Ministry of defense ended up supporting the SIDAM-25 and started to place orders for the vehicle. The Sidam-25 would be based on the American M113 chassis then built under license, mainly it was chosen as it had local production and allowed for a cheap supply of parts and easy maintenance and training. However, to carry the impressive quad system, a large array of modifications had to be carried out including the removal of the single fuel tank replaced with twin tanks either side of the new engine and updated suspension to cope with the increased weight. Although to the outsiders it may look like a decent SPAA (which it is in a way, on a good day), but the actual production version lacked radar and any form of night vision/thermal vision. Why you may ask yourself? Well the issue was not that it wasn't planned, infact the SIDAM-25 was advertised at the time to be able to utilize night vision and the thermal vision, however there was an issue, cost. The SIDAM-25 project ended up costing Italy too much, so they had to remove things from the actual prototypes such as, night vision and the thermal imaging, it ended up having an entirely different turret (the one currently in game). In retrospect Italy could've acquired the OTOMATIC with that money, which although it would lead to less units, it would've been great if they went for quality over quantity. Sadly the SIDAM-25 lived a short life, In total 276 of such systems were produced from 1985, they'd slowly be taken out of active service and put in storage. Most of them have been used for its main armament, and installed unto the Italian army 'Freccia IFV' which uses the same 25mm the Sidam once used. The Sidam-25 would only ever be exported to a private military collector in Belgium, in an estimated 40 units. There was also plans on installing the Sidam quad mount unto another Oto-Melara project, the C-13, however due to political reasons that would not end up happening. In terms of Sidam upgrades, modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994. The Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Matra Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole. Sadly, the Mistral program which aimed to upgrade the Italian Sidams would not be picked up.
Devblog
Modernization plans for the SIDAM 25 were drawn up in late 1994, when Italian engineers proposed the up-arming of the vehicle with Mistral surface-to-air missiles in order to give it better long-range capabilities and improve its performance as a whole.
The missiles were to be distributed between two launchers, with each launcher containing three missiles. As such, the vehicle could then utilize the missiles against targets at long range, whilst preserving the cannon armament for close-range engagements.
The modernization of the SIDAM 25s with Mistral SAMs was expected to begin in the early 2000s, alongside some other potential upgrades as well.
- From Devblog
Media
See also
Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:
- reference to the series of the vehicles;
- links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.
External links
| Italy anti-aircraft vehicles | |
|---|---|
| R3 Capraia | R3 T20 FA-HS |
| SIDAM 25 | SIDAM 25 · SIDAM 25 (Mistral) |
| Wheeled | AS 42 · CM52 |
| Tracked | M42 Contraereo · Leopard 40/70 · OTOMATIC |
| Hungary | ◔ZSU-57-2 · ◔ZSU-23-4 |
