Difference between revisions of "203 mm/50 model 1924 (203 mm)"

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[[File:203 mm 50 model 1924.jpg|thumb|x250px|Two types of the '''{{PAGENAME}}''' turrets]]
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
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''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Compile a list of air, ground, or naval vehicles that feature this weapon system in the game.''
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<!-- ''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Compile a list of air, ground, or naval vehicles that feature this weapon system in the game.'' -->
 +
The '''203 mm/50 Modèle 1924''' gun was developed in the 1920s for the French Navy's Duquesne-class cruisers, aligning with the Washington Naval Treaty limitations of the era. Initially deployed on the Duquesne and Suffren classes, the gun proved to be a consistent choice for French Treaty cruisers up to the Algérie, which utilised the Modèle 1931 variant. Plans were made to equip the Saint Louis class heavy cruisers with this gun in 1939, but the onset of the Second World War led to the cancellation of the project before design work was finalised. Throughout the Second World War, the 203 mm/50 was the primary gun of the French heavy cruisers.
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French '''203 mm/50 model 1924''' was used by the French heavy cruisers during the Second World War. It came equipped with {{Annotation|SAP|Semi-armour-piercing}} and {{Annotation|HE|High-explosive fragmentation}} shells, with the latter having a very large explosive filler compared to the SAP shell but poor penetration, while the former having just slightly larger explosive filler than SAP but offering a contact fuse, which might be preferable under some circumstances. Lacking a dedicated AP shell, the gun would struggle to deal with heavily armoured cruisers.
  
 
=== Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===
 
=== Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===
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== General info ==
 
== General info ==
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''Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun.''
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<!-- ''Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun.'' -->
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The 203 mm (or 8 inch) gun offers excellent damage against all soft targets, while firing rounds every 13 (base) to 10 seconds (top) from the first-stage rack, which allows it to deal with frigates, destroyers, or other manoeuvrable targets. With a horizontal targeting speed of 6 °/s, the turrets can easily keep up with the turn rate of the vessel itself.
  
 
=== Available ammunition ===
 
=== Available ammunition ===
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| '''203 mm/50 model 1924'''
 
| '''203 mm/50 model 1924'''
 
| [[Colbert]]
 
| [[Colbert]]
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| HE || 203 || 850 || 5 || 6 || 10 || 8.3 || 61 || 61
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| HE || 203 || 850 || 5 || 6 || 10 || 9.13 || 61 || 61
 
|-
 
|-
 
|[[File:USA flag.png|link=|25x25px]]
 
|[[File:USA flag.png|link=|25x25px]]
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| [[180 mm/57 B-1-P (180 mm)|180 mm/57 B-1-P]]
 
| [[180 mm/57 B-1-P (180 mm)|180 mm/57 B-1-P]]
 
| [[Kirov]]
 
| [[Kirov]]
−
| SAPCBC || 920 || 920 || 5.5 || 6.8 || 8.5 || 7 || 161 || 120
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| SAPCBC || 180 || 920 || 5.5 || 6.8 || 8.5 || 7 || 161 || 120
 
|-
 
|-
 
|[[File:USSR flag.png|link=|25x25px]]
 
|[[File:USSR flag.png|link=|25x25px]]
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== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
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''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against notable opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.''
+
<!-- ''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against notable opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.'' -->
 +
The gun is used similarly to other 203 mm cruiser guns. It can effectively engage cruisers and lighter vessels, but will have to rely on taking down crews from the exposed positions and fires to deal any damage against battleships and battlecruisers. Destroyers are particularly attractive targets for the gun, as a single shell can take down two separate main gun turrets or torpedo launchers.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
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'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
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* Lack of dedicated {{Annotation|AP|Armour-piercing}} shells
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* Lack of dedicated {{Annotation|AP|Armour-piercing}} or {{Annotation|HE-TF|High-explosive with time fuze}} shells
 
* Below average explosive filler in the {{Annotation|HE|High-explosive fragmentation}} shells
 
* Below average explosive filler in the {{Annotation|HE|High-explosive fragmentation}} shells
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of the weapon in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the weapon and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Weapon-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>.''
+
<!-- ''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of the weapon in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the weapon and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Weapon-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>.'' -->
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The French '''203 mm/50 Modèle 1924''' gun was designed in the early 1920s for the Duquesne-class cruisers. Made to comply with the Washington Naval Treaty limitations, it featured a simple construction, with a breech block that opened upwards. Initially, it fired 123.1 kg armour-piercing shells and 123.8 kg high-explosive shells. Later developments in the late 1920s introduced lighter shells, and just before the Second World War, the significantly heavier armour-piercing capped ''Opf(K) RC Mle 1936'' was developed. To aid in identifying shell splashes during formation firing, in March 1939 a special dye was added that coloured the splashes. Duquesne used red, Tourville yellow, and Suffren used green dye.
 +
 
 +
The Modèle 1924 gun was mounted in twin turrets, each housing guns in separate cradles with individual toothed elevating arcs, allowing for independent or coupled elevation for salvo firing. The turrets allowed the guns to elevate up to +45 degrees and depress to -5 degrees, with loading conducted between +10 degrees and -5 degrees using catapult rammers. The shell rooms were located below the magazines, except for some forward magazine stowage on the same deck level as the shells. Ammunition handling involved dredger hoists and upper cage hoists, with shells transferred via swinging arms that locked to the guns for loading. While the designed firing cycle was 5–6 rounds per minute, the practical rate was somewhat less. In the mid-1930s, remote power control was added for training purposes.
 +
 
 +
This gun saw service on the Duquesne and [[Suffren (Family)|Suffren]] classes, with the submarine cruiser Surcouf using the Modèle 1929 and the cruiser Algérie employing the Modèle 1931 variant. The Algérie's guns, though similar internally to the Modèle 1924, had construction differences such as an A tube and jacket accommodating a liner with an internal diameter of 324 mm. Plans were made to equip the Saint Louis class heavy cruisers, designed in 1939, with the gun, but the outbreak of the Second World War led to the project's cancellation before design work could be completed.
 +
 
 +
=== Shells ===
 +
* Initial shells, fired with 53 kg of BM13 propellant
 +
** '''OPf Mle 1927''' - Mass: 123.1 kg, burst charge: 8.07 kg Mélinite, muzzle velocity: 850 m/s, maximum range of 31,400 meters
 +
** '''OEA Mle 1927''' - Mass: 123.82 kg, muzzle velocity: 850 m/s, maximum range of 30,000 meters
 +
* Second series of shells, lighter designs introduced in 1920s
 +
** '''OPf Mle 19??''' - Mass: 119.07 kg
 +
** '''OEA Mle 19??''' - Mass: 119.72 kg
 +
* A heavier Armour Piercing Capped shell introduced in 1936, fired with 47 kg of BM13 propellant
 +
** '''OPf Mle 1936''' aka ''Opf(K) RC Mle 1936'' - Mass: 134 kg, burst charge: 8.3 kg of Mn.F.Dn (Mélinite fondue dinitronaphtaline - roughly equivalent to British Shellite which has x0.94 multiplier for TNT equivalent, giving it a TNT equivalent of 7.8 kg TNT) muzzle velocity: 850 m/s
 +
 
 +
OPf stands for Obus de Perforation (Armour-Piercing Shell), OEA stands for Obus Explosif en Acier (High-Explosive Steel Shell).
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
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== External links ==
 
== External links ==
−
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
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<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
−
* ''other literature.''
+
* ''other literature.'' -->
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* [[wikipedia:203mm/50 Modèle 1924 gun|[Wikipedia] 203mm/50 Modèle 1924 gun]]
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* [http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_8-50_m1924.php <nowiki>[NavWeaps]</nowiki> France 203 mm/50 (8") Model 1924]
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* ''Naval Weapons of World War Two'' by John Campbell, page 292
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* ''French Cruisers 1922-1956'' by John Jordan & Jean Moulin, pages 48-49, 162-163
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* ''Warship 2005'' - ''Duquesne and Tourville: The First French Treaty Cruisers'' by John Jordan, page 33 (largely identical to French Cruisers 1922-1956)
  
 
{{France naval cannons}}
 
{{France naval cannons}}
  
 
[[Category:Naval cannons]]
 
[[Category:Naval cannons]]

Revision as of 19:53, 17 October 2024

Two types of the 203 mm/50 model 1924 (203 mm) turrets

Description

The 203 mm/50 Modèle 1924 gun was developed in the 1920s for the French Navy's Duquesne-class cruisers, aligning with the Washington Naval Treaty limitations of the era. Initially deployed on the Duquesne and Suffren classes, the gun proved to be a consistent choice for French Treaty cruisers up to the Algérie, which utilised the Modèle 1931 variant. Plans were made to equip the Saint Louis class heavy cruisers with this gun in 1939, but the onset of the Second World War led to the cancellation of the project before design work was finalised. Throughout the Second World War, the 203 mm/50 was the primary gun of the French heavy cruisers.

French 203 mm/50 model 1924 was used by the French heavy cruisers during the Second World War. It came equipped with SAP and HE shells, with the latter having a very large explosive filler compared to the SAP shell but poor penetration, while the former having just slightly larger explosive filler than SAP but offering a contact fuse, which might be preferable under some circumstances. Lacking a dedicated AP shell, the gun would struggle to deal with heavily armoured cruisers.

Vehicles equipped with this weapon

General info

The 203 mm (or 8 inch) gun offers excellent damage against all soft targets, while firing rounds every 13 (base) to 10 seconds (top) from the first-stage rack, which allows it to deal with frigates, destroyers, or other manoeuvrable targets. With a horizontal targeting speed of 6 °/s, the turrets can easily keep up with the turn rate of the vessel itself.

Available ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
1,000 m 2,500 m 5,000 m 7,500 m 10,000 m 15,000 m
OEA Mle 1927 HE HE 61 61 61 61 61 61
OPF Mle 1927 SAPBC SAPBC 151 140 123 109 97 79
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
(m/s) 		Projectile
mass (kg) 		Fuse delay
(s) 		Fuse sensitivity
(mm) 		Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (kg) 		Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
OEA Mle 1927 HE HE 850 123.82 0 0.1 9.13 79° 80° 81°
OPF Mle 1927 SAPBC SAPBC 850 123.1 0.03 9 8.88 48° 63° 71°

Comparison with analogues

Compared to its peers, the gun has an average muzzle velocity, average rate of fire, and above average horizontal targetting speed. Its biggest weakness is the lack of the dedicated AP shells, which makes the gun unsuitable to deal with any heavily armoured target, even some of the heavy cruisers, like the Admiral Hipper-class. Explosive filler of the HE shells is also below average. Where the gun shines, however, are its SAP shells. Having by far the largest explosive filler among its peers, it's able to deal an outstanding amount of damage. This is done by having a lower penetration than most of the other comparable shells, but it's still able to penetrate the majority of the light cruisers

HE

Cannon Sample Ship Ammo Calibre
(mm) 		Muzzle Velocity
(m/s) 		Sustained rate of fire
(rounds/min) 		Targeting speed
(°/s) 		TNT Equivalent
(kg) 		Penetration
@ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
Horizontal Vertical 5,000 m 10,000 m
France flag.png 203 mm/50 model 1924 Colbert HE 203 850 5 6 10 9.13 61 61
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 9 (203 mm) USS Northampton HE 203 853 3.5 3.6 8 9.49 61 61
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 16 (203 mm) USS Newport News HE 203 823 10 4.2 7 9.49 61 61
Germany flag.png 20.3 cm/60 SK C/34 Admiral Hipper HE 203 925 5 6.8 6.8 8.88 61 61
USSR flag.png 180 mm/57 B-1-P Kirov HE 180 920 5.5 6.8 8.5 7.9 60 60
Britain flag.png 8 inch/50 Mark VIII (203 mm) HMS Kent HE 203 855 5 5.1 4.7 10 62 62
Japan flag.png 20 cm/50 3rd year type No.2 IJN Furutaka HE 203 835 5 3.4 5.1 8.57 61 61
Kingdom Italy flag.png 203 mm/53 Ansaldo mod.1927 RN Zara HE 203 900 3.8 5 5 7.5 58 58

SAP / AP

Cannon Sample Ship Ammo Calibre
(mm) 		Muzzle Velocity
(m/s) 		Sustained rate of fire
(rounds/min) 		Targeting speed
(°/s) 		TNT Equivalent
(kg) 		Penetration
@ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
Horizontal Vertical 5,000 m 10,000 m
France flag.png 203 mm/50 model 1924 Colbert SAPBC 203 850 5 6 10 8.88 123 97
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 9 (203 mm) USS Northampton SP Common 203 853 3.5 3.6 8 4.61 99 68
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 9 (203 mm) USS Northampton APCBC 203 853 3.5 3.6 8 1.62 277 190
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 16 (203 mm) USS Newport News SP Common 203 823 10 4.2 7 4.61 95 66
USA flag.png 8 inch/55 Mark 16 (203 mm) USS Newport News APCBC 203 762 10 4.2 7 2.21 289 207
Germany flag.png 20.3 cm/60 SK C/34 Admiral Hipper SAPBC 203 925 5 6.8 6.8 5.35 182 130
Germany flag.png 20.3 cm/60 SK C/34 Admiral Hipper APCBC 203 925 5 6.8 6.8 2.65 316 226
USSR flag.png 180 mm/57 B-1-P Kirov SAPCBC 180 920 5.5 6.8 8.5 7 161 120
USSR flag.png 180 mm/57 B-1-P Kirov APCBC 180 920 5.5 6.8 8.5 2.49 331 246
Britain flag.png 8 inch/50 Mark VIII (203 mm) HMS Kent SAPCBC 203 855 5 5.1 4.7 5.2 209 153
Japan flag.png 20 cm/50 3rd year type No.2 IJN Furutaka APHEBC 203 835 5 3.4 5.1 3.25 263 182
Kingdom Italy flag.png 203 mm/53 Ansaldo mod.1927 RN Zara APHEBC 203 900 3.8 5 5 3.16 247 148

Usage in battles

The gun is used similarly to other 203 mm cruiser guns. It can effectively engage cruisers and lighter vessels, but will have to rely on taking down crews from the exposed positions and fires to deal any damage against battleships and battlecruisers. Destroyers are particularly attractive targets for the gun, as a single shell can take down two separate main gun turrets or torpedo launchers.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Exceptionally large explosive filler of the SAP shells
  • Above average horizontal targetting speed

Cons:

  • Lack of dedicated AP or HE-TF shells
  • Below average explosive filler in the HE shells

History

The French 203 mm/50 Modèle 1924 gun was designed in the early 1920s for the Duquesne-class cruisers. Made to comply with the Washington Naval Treaty limitations, it featured a simple construction, with a breech block that opened upwards. Initially, it fired 123.1 kg armour-piercing shells and 123.8 kg high-explosive shells. Later developments in the late 1920s introduced lighter shells, and just before the Second World War, the significantly heavier armour-piercing capped Opf(K) RC Mle 1936 was developed. To aid in identifying shell splashes during formation firing, in March 1939 a special dye was added that coloured the splashes. Duquesne used red, Tourville yellow, and Suffren used green dye.

The Modèle 1924 gun was mounted in twin turrets, each housing guns in separate cradles with individual toothed elevating arcs, allowing for independent or coupled elevation for salvo firing. The turrets allowed the guns to elevate up to +45 degrees and depress to -5 degrees, with loading conducted between +10 degrees and -5 degrees using catapult rammers. The shell rooms were located below the magazines, except for some forward magazine stowage on the same deck level as the shells. Ammunition handling involved dredger hoists and upper cage hoists, with shells transferred via swinging arms that locked to the guns for loading. While the designed firing cycle was 5–6 rounds per minute, the practical rate was somewhat less. In the mid-1930s, remote power control was added for training purposes.

This gun saw service on the Duquesne and Suffren classes, with the submarine cruiser Surcouf using the Modèle 1929 and the cruiser Algérie employing the Modèle 1931 variant. The Algérie's guns, though similar internally to the Modèle 1924, had construction differences such as an A tube and jacket accommodating a liner with an internal diameter of 324 mm. Plans were made to equip the Saint Louis class heavy cruisers, designed in 1939, with the gun, but the outbreak of the Second World War led to the project's cancellation before design work could be completed.

Shells

  • Initial shells, fired with 53 kg of BM13 propellant
    • OPf Mle 1927 - Mass: 123.1 kg, burst charge: 8.07 kg Mélinite, muzzle velocity: 850 m/s, maximum range of 31,400 meters
    • OEA Mle 1927 - Mass: 123.82 kg, muzzle velocity: 850 m/s, maximum range of 30,000 meters
  • Second series of shells, lighter designs introduced in 1920s
    • OPf Mle 19?? - Mass: 119.07 kg
    • OEA Mle 19?? - Mass: 119.72 kg
  • A heavier Armour Piercing Capped shell introduced in 1936, fired with 47 kg of BM13 propellant
    • OPf Mle 1936 aka Opf(K) RC Mle 1936 - Mass: 134 kg, burst charge: 8.3 kg of Mn.F.Dn (Mélinite fondue dinitronaphtaline - roughly equivalent to British Shellite which has x0.94 multiplier for TNT equivalent, giving it a TNT equivalent of 7.8 kg TNT) muzzle velocity: 850 m/s

OPf stands for Obus de Perforation (Armour-Piercing Shell), OEA stands for Obus Explosif en Acier (High-Explosive Steel Shell).

Media

Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.

See also

Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:

  • reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;
  • references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees.

External links


France naval cannons
37 mm  37 mm/50 model 1925 · 37 mm/50 model 1933
47 mm  3 pdr QF Hotchkiss
57 mm  57 mm/60 ACAD Mle 1951
75 mm  75 mm/50 Canet model 1891 · 75 mm/50 model 1922
90 mm  90 mm/50 model 1926
130 mm  130 mm/40 model 1919
138.6 mm  138.6 mm/55 model 1910 · 138.6 mm/40 model 1927 · 138.6 mm/50 model 1929 · 138.6 mm/50 model 1934 R1938
152 mm  152 mm/55 model 1930
155 mm  155 mm/50 model 1920
203 mm  203 mm/50 model 1924
305 mm  305 mm/45 model 1906-10
340 mm  340 mm/45 model 1912
  Foreign:
20 mm  2 cm/65 C/38 (Germany) · 2 cm/65 Flakvierling 38 (Germany) · 20 mm/70 Oerlikon Mk.II (USA/Britain)
40 mm  2pdr QF Mk.IIc (Britain) · 2pdr QF Mk.VIII (Britain) · Bofors L/60 Mark 2 (USA) · Bofors L/60 Mark 3 (USA)
87.6 mm  Ordnance QF 25pdr (87.6 mm) (Britain)
102 mm  4 in QF Mark V (Britain) · 4 inch/45 Mark XVI (Britain)
105 mm  SK C/33 AA (Germany)
128 mm  12.8 cm/45 SK C/34 (Germany)
150 mm  15 cm/48 KC/36 (Germany)

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