Bangerland

This member plays War Thunder on Windows

ATGM main, which likes his indirect strikes. Incoming artillery fire!

This member considers FV102 Striker the best tank in game.

This member considers IS-7 the best tank in rank VI.

Who am I?

I'm a British ground forces main, registered my account at 2016, but really started playing in 2018. Mostly playing in AB, since I feel like vehicles there have most balanced stats game-wise there, if you forget about wallhack and aim assist up to 1km range. If not for those two facts, I'd never ever leave AB, lol. Actually, either of these options on their own would be fine, but together it's is a bit too much sometimes.

I do have some planes, but bombers that I used are very moody mistresses, they have gunners that either destroy every fighter in 360 degrees and on max range, or do nothing. Hurricane MK IIB/trop and Nimrod II so far left the best impression on me.

Favorite ground vehicles so far:

A30 SP Avenger - It really lives up to it's name, whether you snipe with it, or drive it GTA style. Never fails to deliver your salt, even in uptier.

A39 Tortoise - It is fun to play as breakthrough tank, or just to be a giant "boss" tank for players to shoot at, preventing spawn camping. You really will love those instant karma moments, even if you get nothing out of it. Though Germans love to destroy it, and some players outright punch through the middle of it, sadly.

Falcon - It's more effective tank than most rank 5-6 tanks, especially if you know how to fire at tracks with auto cannons, forcing enemy to turn and get destroyed... And it's a good AA, lol. But with every patch Gaijin increases repair price for it in AB by 6k. It's 22k already, while ZSU-57-2 is 2k. Why??? I dunno, beats me. Be careful with trigger discipline, single belt rearms for a minute and then reloads for as long. You will be destroyed :D .

All British ATGMs - That feeling when people just despair and give up in their own cover under ATGM rain is priceless. They launch up to 10 artys at once on you. It makes you feel special, even if you do die from it.

Hated ground vehicles so far:

Conqueror MK2 - God, this thing gets lit on fire even by random vehicles blowing up near to it's side, and explodes from random shots to the track. I even got destroyed by Centurion AVRE, that MISSED me. YEAH. I realize that this vehicle is great in RB and all, but why it is so flammable in AB is beyond me.

Warrior - I love it, but I also hate it. Why BMP-1 cannon shell can hull break warrior even when it hits add-on armor, and cannot hull break striker? Why BMP-2 bullets can instantly destroy armour plates from over 1.5KM and instakill it? I got hit by ATGM from IT-1 and lived somehow, losing all armour on my left side, but cannot survive BMP? How is that??? Common sence is overrated, I guess.

Archnemesis:

IS-4M - whenever I meet it, I don't live long enough to understand where to shoot it, lol.

RELATIVE CAMERA CONTROLS FOR ATGM

Okay, this is very seriously important for any british ATGM main, if you really want to destroy the opposition. It fixes camera issues in melee range and when camping on steep hills.

You need to set "relative camera angle" for your aiming, by going to control-tank-camera control - "view in battle - ground (Y axis)".

In new menu you need to activate "relative controls" and "keep value for disabled axis", then set buttons for "Increase value", "decrease value", "enable axis" and "reset axis value". For example i set them to NUM 7,9,8,4 respectively. The sensitivity is up to taste, but i took it to the extreme, as it's faster to do.

What it does: you use "decrease" and "increase" value to set a direction for camera (down or up basically), and on press of "activate axis" it detaches your camera from your reticle by a certain angle. You can make your camera look sky-high up, so when you actually aim in front of you, you can now truly aim for enemy, not just randomly fire missiles everywhere, enabling you full melee combat capabilities, allowing you to look behind ridges, while aiming, and fixing the damn problem i showed in first post. Or you can fire upwards without looking at the back of your vehicle (though that's usually fixable by just pressing Z, but i digress :) )

When you are done, you use "reset axis value" and "activate axis" to return to normal aiming mode.

It's also possible to do to horizontal axis, allowing to see people behind rocks as you turn missiles there, though it's less useful.

Now only thing left is finding out if it's possible to ruin semi-auto aiming by triggering manual control by a button somehow. Though i doubt i'ts possible.

Piece of text for radar explanations

(Ground vehicle side mostly, incomplete, also part about Rangefinder type (vulcan, and whatever the optical tracking device SIDAM received?) will need checking by someone who owns them, i don't.)

Since update "locked on" SPAA's and certain planes can use radars in more in-depth ways.

There are 2 types of radar currently in the game:

Rangefinder - Does not search for targets automatically, but assists you with targeting and sets explosion range for ammunition.

Full radar - When isn't tracking your target, searches surroundings for any aircrafts. May be "sector", or "round" view based.

When you use any vehicle with fully functional radar, you will see these 2 things on your screen:

1) Radar screen

2) Radar assisted compass

Whenever you don't have any locked target, your radar either searches for targets on it's own, or follows your turret, depending on it's type and current search mode. It's current direction is represented by a second line on radar. This line must hit a target to "spot" it. Even if your radar fails to spot a target, or is offline, you can target enemy, that enters your "field of view"

Whenever your radar detects any target, you can "lock on" to one of them by pressing a key (default keybinding is alt+F, which is strongly adviced to bind to something else, because ALT key activates mouse cursor and breaks lock-ons), Your turret will receive the feed, adjust ammunition self-destruction fuses and follow the target automatically. You will now see a "true" targeting reticle, which 100% guarantees, that your target will go down, as long as it doesn't change speed or direction.

Your only concern now is to prevent your opponent from dodging your volley. For this reason, you shouldn't waste too much ammo firing in the same direction, if your SPAA's accuracy is adequate. Try firing all around the targeting reticle, to hit enemy, even if they did change their course.

For super long range snipes (~4-6km engagements) you might have to stop your radar from searching randomly and scan certain area specifically. This is done by a key (Not set by default, name in settings is "change radar search mode"). This will stop radar dish and force it to follow your turret's current direction. After that you need to look into direction you think your enemy is going to come from (enemy airfield, for example). You should note, however, that smaller planes that fly near to ground are harder to detect, and even this trick might not work on them.

Certain planes and helicopters have radar's detection system, and as such, whenever your radar "hit" them, they see radar alerts.

Some aircrafts have fully fledged out radars and will see you clearly as soon as you try to track them.

Here is an example of what happens, when you got noticed by a helicopter:

Certain helicopters and planes may have no problems with carpet-bombing your position with rockets, just to make sure you aren't going to fire at them ever again. To avoid being bombed like this, you can turn radar off with a key (default alt+R). This will shut down radar search, and you won't be able to lock on anymore. Certain SPAA's also hide their radar behind them, making their profile much smaller and harder to notice.

Despite losing Lock-on, you still retain your "fake" targeting reticle and can fire at enemy semi-precisely, however, in most SPAA's you can't hit targets that are too far away from you like this, because ammo will self-destruct at it's default range.

Space for special MG tables/graphs (if ever done, lol):

Yes i am aware that different rank MG's and minor caliber changes of certain factions should and might be different on different ranks, but i digress for now, since difference seems insignificant to me ingame, as seen in 7.92.

Anyone is welcome to add info on different calibers, or add specific faction calibre (like french 15.00 or whatever)

HT: heavy tanks, HTD: heavy TD, as in Foch, ISU, and so on.

By heavy damage is implied, that it can destroy some module, but doesn't pen entire vehicle. (if ammo doesnt explode in 1 hit, specify that)

By destruction implied, that if it hits you, with it's ROF you are probably screwed.

low caliber SPAA and autocannons included to compare with french coax autocannon and check other abnormal dps stuff (pen*rof), do not add more of those

General oversimplification table of damage for MG and other coaxials per caliber to light vehicle

Caliber	presumable pen at 100m (against rolled homogenous armour)	ROF	Who uses:	Tree removal (y/n)	Stone wall removal (y/n)	Damage to external armour	DPS to flat rear of TD (45 mm homogenous armor) (tested mostly on IT1)	DPS/TTK to sloped LVeh (50-65 mm aluminium AA7017)	Dps/TTK to angled sides of Lveh/armored turret (20-30mm~~ aluminium 7039)	TTK to unangled/ unarmored LVeh (15mm in general, aluminium 7017)
30mm warrior gun, APDS loadout	101	Low	Warrior	Yes	Yes	ERA, doesn't seem to do much else	Damages engine	Heavy damage, 6 hits to destroy ammo	Heavy damage, ~2 hits to destroy ammo	Heavy damage
~23cal AA only SPAA gun combo	~45	Insane	ZSU-23-4, wirbelwind with no ap ammo and such	yes	Yes	Significant	Damages engine.	appearantly deteriorates even permament armorto 0 in 3 seconds or so, resulting in destruction. RNG/bug/feature?	Destruction	RUN
20cal vulcan gun	~39	~infinity	M163	yes	Yes	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Unknown
20mm Crusader AA cannons and such	~39	Heavy since twin guns..	Most early autocannon tanks and such	yes	Yes	Seems to not damage 5mm plates	Penetrated, despite it being statistically impossible, or Bypasses external armor (5mm)	Unknown	Destruction	Destruction
BMP2 30mm autocannon, AP-T load	~65	medium or extreme	Bmp2	Y	Y	instant destruction	Unknown, probably destruction	AP-T seems to not penetrate ~60, for no reason. It seems having high ground may help.	Destruction	Destruction
20cal coax cannon	supposedly 34 (unverified source) 42 , 39 up to 500m by ingame stats	Heavy	French rank 6, amx-30 (r5) and some top german MBTs	unknown	unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Can cause Destruction for unknown reason. No damage to ~55mm of alloy7039, or just doesn't damage heavily sloped armor. (unlikely)	Destruction, but no AOE damage, so it damages weakspot of LV with 30mm but nothing more so far. At least from french gun.	Destruction, 1 sec max
15.0 mm MG	45 by ingame stats (how even?^^^^) , heavy pen falloff any further, just like in BMP2 case...	unknown	French HT and HTD	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown
14.5 mm KPVT	seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more. 42 by ingame stats, but seems doubtful. (or it's inaccurate)	low to Medium	is7, is10m, soviet HTD rank 5	unknown	unknown	Unknown	Unknown	Does nothing to 60+mm, but either 38 or 44mm on warrior's alloy 7039 rear achieved destruction. assumed 50mm of AA7039 seems to hold off.	Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.	Destruction
12.7 mm DShK and such	seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more. 27 by ingame stats	low to Medium	HT and HTD , some MBTs of rank4+,	unknown	unknown	Unknown	None	None	Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.	Destruction in 1 sec max
12.7 mm M2HB USA edition	25 by ingame stats, but seems to be around 26.	low to Medium	USA on rank2+, half of JPN vehicles on any BR	unknown	unknown	unknown	None	somehow did damage after 5 sec or fire from M103. perhaps hit weakspot with ~30mm.	unknown	Destruction in 1 sec max
8.00	9 by ingame stats (how even if 7.92 is better?)	???	Italy up to rank 2	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown
7.92	less than 13? 12 by ingame stats	Medium	German tanks before rank 4, their HT and HTD past rank 4	unknown	unknown	ERA only	Unknown	seems to do no damage	Unknown, since nobody tries to use it on selected vehicles	Resistable
7.7	9 by ingame stats	unknown	Japanese rank 1-3	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown
7.62	less than 13? 9 by ingame stats	Low to medium, heavy on rank 6	German medium vehicles rank4+, french before rank 6 and most british tanks use something similiar, most USSR mbts	No	No	ERA only	No damage	No damage	Nonexistant/ignorable	seems to be useless even point-blank vs ~13mm aluminium alloy
7,50	9 by ingame stats	unknown	French at various ranks	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown	unknown

I gather that SPAA guns penetrate at least 7mm more than ingame tip says, at least for aluminium... And with highter ROF it may cause instakill even on vehicles, that are supposed to be permamently resistant to it, so probably MG does that as well. Perhaps there is some HP value in structures that i'm unaware of or sth.

Also in my experience insanely high ROF of BMP2 allows to annihilate warrior through side add-on plates from over 2kilometers, which should be impossible, which only further increases mine suspicions. Even if we consider plates as dead after ~10 hits, this still seems fishy. The only time i survived BMP2 was when it was completely stock and fired on me at 20 degree angle in LowROF mode, and i executed them in 2 seconds (so 3 seconds TTK time from ZSU test is still relevant in my eyes).

After getting more proper specific info for all calibres (without oversimplifying it maybe, if someone can add info for rest nations, or even per-rank, if possible) i'd want to find a way to convert it into colourful graph or table.

For lols, we could also make similiar autocannon chart for MBT armour VS IFV/combat SPAA autoguns, since it's appearanly a problem for tanks on all ranks.

Conclusion for armor protection so far:

AP-T (incindenary Armor piercing) ammo negates inclination armor modifiers, just like APHE of soviets, which makes it as good as APDS against angled armor, which is extremely unfair (lol).

However, IAP seems to have much worse ricochets angle than APDS and such shells, so high ground negates it as long as you have 65mm total.APDS cannot pen much more at this angle either, because it has no modifiers, just huge raw numbers.

This kind of explains how the hell soviets HMG destroy sloped turret of warrior in 1 hit, but sometimes cannot destroy Striker's hull even with BMP2 guns for example.

The weirdness is further increased by fact that aluminium alloy has huge penalty to armor (which is not properly displayed in statistics, and goes all ways from 20% to 50%) and insane ROF of auto cannons and such, which convert 5% chance of pen into guaranteed kill.

External plating often seems to be completely ignored whenever penetration of enemy ammo > armor of plate, or just gets destroyed in 5 hits at it. Doesn't even have to be angled for this at certain points. This explains how the hell BMP-2 deletes warrior from 2km range.Even if you nitpick and check side skirts from top and it says "6mm" it still makes no sence, since 44+6=50+angle because firing distance, that's already enough to stop bullets from 500m, but protection analysis says "34". I guess if you take 70% of both numbers that's going to be it. (because aluminium alloy i guess) That's all fun and all, but you still have RNG roll to get penned at ranges where armor is insignificantly better than penetration.Seems to be proved by panther D side (40+5) being penned by Crusader AAmk2, and striker armor being eventually destroyed by "shilka". Also most light vehicles have glaring weakspots with 10mm less armor (like this isn't enough, lol)

As in, the protection analysis feature seems to like to ignore external plates for life, so it's safe to assume, that on random occasion bullets can just go through them anyway. They still protect from HESH and single cannon shots though.

High ground seems to help against MG and Autocannon in case of solid permament armor, however if in case of Striker transmission eats any bullets coming through LFP, in case of warrior the external shield (made of rolled homogenous armor, tons of NERA and even 38mm more aluminium, just saying) that is supposed to stop anything going for driver thought LFP will be ignored, resulting in instant death, since bullets will just pen it and explode the ammo rack through driver (because screw logic i guess).

Required precise test of every MG type onto warrior's ventilation shield weakspot, specifically frontal protection plate and rear (on both the 38mm door and 44.4mm rest) to find out if it's all the same with 12mm, 14mm, 20mm coaxial, 7.62mm for this. External armor seems to be majorly useless against kinetic damage, so yeah.

////

Even if BRs allow different ranks of MGs to be used on you, simplified graph would look kind of like this:

Your vehicle's hull vulnerability to MG in your matchmaking:

I want to do it through Colours if possible.

Black = instant death,

red = only tankable by front, can still destroy your armor or damage fatal weakspots/turret/cupola and cause your death somehow,

orange = Only tankable by front,

yellow = angled sides can tank it,

green = only rear or not-so-obvious weakspot is endangered,

white/blue/idk = no threat.

Instead of faction names could use flags.

Threat of MG/autocannon in CQC on your BR/rank

Nation	LT	TD	MT	HV	AA
French
USA
Japanese
USSR
German
Italy
British

Possibly, we will want two of these per vehicle, if it will be known, that high ROF or focused fire of many vehicles even of low cal can delete your vehicle, or simply to show danger with/without weakspots in general (for example warrior wearing ADD-on armor is okay as long as you broadside and they fire on your hull, but they still can try to wreck your turret with HMG, so GG., as for without ADD-on armor... well... rip.) Perhaps i can use lighting icon to symbolize "likely crew incapacitation".

Some random images left by wiki moderator to help me remember how to upload pictures:

File:GarageImage Hunter F 1.jpg

The Hunter F 1 in the Garage.

File:BomberImage B-24JCollings.JPG

http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Hunter_F_1

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Link to upload stuff : http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload .

Talk/comment section, In case if you want to write exactly here:

@Bangerland, here are a couple of options for formatting images here on the wiki. You can check out options on Google for GIFs (although, I don't think the formatting is much different for them). You want to make sure when uploading images, that you don't upload copyrighted images (without permission). Feel free to load images you take from the game, public domain images or copyrighted images which you have received permission and annotate in the information section of the image posted.

Here is the link to upload images and GIFs: http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload

Also, this is your page, you can add, edit or remove data here as you would like. Good luck! - AN TRN 26 (talk) 16:16, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

God, visual editor is so awkward to use, espechially if page has a lot of spacing made by Enter or such. Added placeholder table for Machine Guns to maybe some day make light tank protection table. --~~~~