Difference between pages "IS-1" and "SU-85M"

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{{Specs-Card|code=ussr_is_1}}
+
{{Specs-Card|code=ussr_su_85m}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
−
<!--In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.-->
+
<!--''In the description, the first part needs to be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert the screenshot of the vehicle. If the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, they will immediately understand what kind of vehicle it is talking about.''-->
−
[[File:GarageImage_IS-1.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
+
[[File:GarageImage_SU-85M.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
 
{{break}}
 
{{break}}
−
The '''{{Specs|name}}''' is a Rank {{Specs|rank}} Soviet heavy tank {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced during the closed beta testing for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. It is the first unlockable IS series heavy tank.
+
The '''{{specs|name}}''' is a rank {{specs|rank}} Soviet tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The SU-85M is basically the beefed up version of the regular [[SU-85]] with an increased frontal armour thickness from 45 mm into 75 mm that can save it from shots that would've been lethal for the SU-85. It also has an APCR shell modification for increased lethality against enemy tanks.
  
−
Operational and visual characteristics of the IS-1 retain the visual and operational similarities to the previous KV line of heavy tanks of which it is descended from. Players experienced in operating previous models of the KV series of tanks should have little to no difficulty in adjusting to this vehicle. Unlike its predecessor, the IS series of tanks are designed with a priority of engaging enemy armoured vehicles in mind and as such, come with increased yet more sloped armour than its KV predecessors whilst sporting a slightly longer chassis, more powerful 85 mm D-5T gun and a larger, rounded turret.
+
When taking the vehicle out the first time, two things will be instantly noticeable: The armour and slow movement of the gun. The former being welcome and the latter being very painful. With the right ammunition between AP and the APCR, the SU-85M is a very good vehicle in the role of a sniper and ambusher. Weary tanks will pop out of corners, unhappy to see a SU-85M locked and loaded. The SU-85M can also be used as a long range sniper due to the 85 mm's good velocity and damage, which could destroy vehicles in just one shot. Range also comes at an advantage as the 75 mm of front sloped armour at a distance of more than 1,500 m is impervious to most tanks of its BR.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
−
<!--Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?
+
<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''
  
−
If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.-->
+
''If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
 
'''Armour type:'''
 
'''Armour type:'''
  
−
* Cast homogeneous armour (Front hull, Turret)
+
* Rolled homogeneous armour
−
* Rolled homogeneous armour (Rear hull, Gun mantlet)
+
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Driver's hatch)
  
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
Line 23: Line 23:
 
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Hull || 120 mm (35°) ''Front plate'' <br> 60 mm (75°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 100 mm (28-36°) ''Lower glais'' || 100 mm (11-27°)''Top front'' <br> 90 mm (11°) ''Top rear'' <br> 90 mm ''Bottom'' || 60 mm (48°) ''Top'' <br> 60 mm (35°) ''Lower'' || 30 mm
+
| Hull || 75 mm (49-50°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 45 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 70 mm (50°) ''Driver's hatch'' || 45 mm (15-41°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm ''Bottom'' || 45 mm (48°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm (48°) ''Bottom'' || 20 mm
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Turret || 100 mm (0-89°) ''Turret front'' <br> 100 mm (4-59°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 100 mm (19-21°) || 100 mm (2-36°) || 30 mm <br> 35 mm ''Turret hatches''
+
| Superstructure || 75 mm (49-50°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 75 + 75 mm (0-89°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 45 mm (15-41°) || 45 mm || 20 mm
 
|-
 
|-
 
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof  
 
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof  
 
|-
 
|-
−
| Cupola || 90 mm || 35 mm
+
| Cupola || 45 mm || 20 mm
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
 
'''Notes:'''
 
'''Notes:'''
  
−
* Suspension wheels are 20 mm thick and tracks are 30 mm thick.
+
* Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.
−
* Though the front plate is 120 mm thick, it is not very sloped in comparison to the front glacis. Despite front glacis, 60 mm thickness, slope effect up to ~130 mm and ricochet chances improve protection.
 
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
−
<!--Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.-->
+
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
  
−
{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 671|rbMinHp= 460|<!--AoAweight=(optional) -->}}
+
{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 710|rbMinHp= 442|<!--AoAweight=(optional) -->}}
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
−
=== Main armament ===
+
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
−
<!--Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.-->
+
{{main|D-5S (85 mm)}}
−
{{main|D-5T (85 mm)}}
 
  
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="6" | [[D-5T (85 mm)|85 mm D-5T]]
+
! colspan="6" | [[D-5S (85 mm)|85 mm D-5S]]
 
|-
 
|-
 
! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
 
! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
Line 55: Line 53:
 
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
 
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
−
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| colspan="3" | 59 || -5°/+25° || ±180° || N/A
+
| colspan="3" | 60 || -3°/+20° || ±8° || N/A
 
|-
 
|-
 
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
 
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
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! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Arcade'' || 8.30 || 11.50 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
+
| ''Arcade'' || 4.8 || 6.6 || _.__ || __._ || __._
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ''Realistic'' || 8.30 || 9.80 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
+
| ''Realistic'' || 4.8 || 5.6 || _.__ || __._ || __._
 
|-
 
|-
 
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
Line 79: Line 76:
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| 9.60 || _.__ || _.__ || _.__
+
| 9.6 || __.__ || __.__ || __.__
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
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! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
−
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 0° Angle of Attack'''
+
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 90°'''
 
|-
 
|-
 
! 10m
 
! 10m
Line 98: Line 95:
 
! 2000m
 
! 2000m
 
|-
 
|-
 +
| BR-365K || APHE ||147||143||126|| 107 ||90||77
 +
|-
 
| BR-365A || APHEBC ||135||133||125||115||106||97
 
| BR-365A || APHEBC ||135||133||125||115||106||97
 
|-
 
|-
−
| BR-365K || APHE ||147||143||126|| 107 ||90||77
 
−
|-
 
 
| O-365K || HE ||12||12||11||11||11||11
 
| O-365K || HE ||12||12||11||11||11||11
 
|-  
 
|-  
 
| BR-365P || APCR || 180 || 175 || 136 || 100 || 73 || 54  
 
| BR-365P || APCR || 180 || 175 || 136 || 100 || 73 || 54  
−
|-
+
|-  
 
|}
 
|}
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
−
! colspan="10" | Shell details
+
! colspan="11" | Shell details
 
|-
 
|-
 
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 +
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
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! 100%
 
! 100%
 
|-
 
|-
−
| BR-365A || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 15 || 164 || +4° || 48° || 63° || 71°
+
| BR-365K || APHE || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 15 || 81.6 || -1° || 47° || 60° || 65°
 +
|-
 +
| BR-365A || APHEBC || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 15 || 164 || +4° || 48° || 63° || 71°
 
|-
 
|-
−
| BR-365K || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 15 || 81.6 || -1° || 47° || 60° || 65°
+
| O-365K || HE || 780 || 9.5 || 0.1 || 0.3 || 646 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
|-  
 
|-  
−
| O-365K || 780 || 9.5 || 0.1 || 0.3 || 646 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
+
| BR-365P || APCR || 1030 || 5.4 || N/A || N/A || N/A || +1.5° || 66° || 70° || 72°
 
|-  
 
|-  
−
| BR-365P || 1030 || 5.4 || N/A || N/A || N/A || +1.5° || 66° || 70° || 72°
 
−
|-
 
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
 
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
−
[[File:Ammoracks_IS-1.png|right|thumbnail|x250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the IS-1.]]
+
[[File:Ammoracks_SU-85M.png|right|thumbnail|x250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the SU-85M.]]
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
Line 144: Line 142:
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br />  rack empty
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |5th<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |6th<br />  rack empty
 
−
! class="wikitable unsortable" |7th<br />  rack empty
 
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
 
|-
 
|-
−
|| '''59''' || 42&nbsp;''(+17)'' || 37&nbsp;''(+22)'' || 32&nbsp;''(+27)'' || 27&nbsp;''(+32)'' || 24&nbsp;''(+35)'' || 11&nbsp;''(+48)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+58)'' || style="text-align:left" | no
+
|| '''60''' || 46&nbsp;''(+14)'' || 31&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 16&nbsp;''(+44)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+59)'' || style="text-align:left" | No
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
Turret empty: 37&nbsp;(+22)
+
== Usage in the battles ==
 +
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
 +
As a tank destroyer, the SU-85M's job is to hunt down and ambush tanks and destroy them. When aiming at a tank, prioritize the area the enemy gunner sits at as if the first shot does not completely destroy the enemy vehicle, the downed gunner forces the enemy to fallback as the SU-85M goes through the lengthy reload time.
  
−
=== Machine guns ===
+
Do not attempt to brawl with this vehicle as it is unsuited for mobile, frontal assaults due to the fixed gun traverse. Keep calm and wait for the enemy to roll into the gun sights instead so while the enemy panics upon the sight of the tank destroyer, the SU-85M can use this time to aim for a good hit.
−
<!--Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.-->
 
−
{{main|DT (7.62 mm)}}
 
  
−
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
+
Heavy tanks and medium tanks should be engaged with caution due to their lethality against the SU-85M's armour. Heavy tanks are a concern as some have enough armour and angling to prevent a reliable penetration by the 85 mm, like the [[M4A3E2 (76) W|M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo]], [[IS-1]], [[IS-2]], and [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]]. Have them distracted against teammates first to avert their cannons from the SU-85M's location. While they are engaged against them, aim the 85 mm onto weak points on their front armour, or flank around and attack them on their side armour. Though most medium tanks will be able to be destroyed by an 85 mm shot, some medium tanks could resist the 85 mm shot by a high degree such as [[Panther D|Panthers]].
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="7" | [[DT (7.62 mm)|7.62 mm DT]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="7" | ''Coaxial mount''
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan="4" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity (Belt capacity)
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Fire rate <br> (shots/minute)
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
−
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
−
|-
 
−
| colspan="4" | 1,890 (63) || 600 || N/A || N/A
 
−
|-
 
−
|}
 
−
 
 
−
== Usage in battles ==
 
−
<!--Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).-->
 
−
 
 
−
As the tank's design purpose suggests, the IS-1 is a heavy tank built with an emphasis on engaging hostile armoured vehicles as well as a breakthrough tank. The tanks heavy armour has similar properties of its previous KV-1 line, but the introduction of sloped armour on the front plate and turret mantlet can allow operators to withstand a significant amount of damage at most ranges, especially when armour is angled. The fast reloads speed of the 85mm gun (on par with its T-34 and KV-85 mounted sisters) also allows it to be an effective brawler in close quarters combat against multiple targets. When encountering better-protected targets, the IS tank (although equipped with the same type of cannon) has access to APCR rounds to better deal with heavier opponents, something the KV and T-34 models lack.
 
−
 
 
−
Although classified as a heavy tank and an upgraded improved design over the KV predecessor, the tank is not invulnerable. The vehicle's armour thickness is quite effective in its class.  Unlike its Tiger rivals and KV predecessors, the IS-1 has better or equal thickness armour on almost all sides except the rear hull and is sloped increasing the chance of ricochet and damage reduction when struck. Of note is the large turret and exposed turret mount which is commonly targeted at engaging hostile vehicles from the front. Armaments and ammunition options aside, the IS tank can perform similarly if not better at engaging targets than the common T-34, albeit with more satisfactory armour protection, able to allow users to lead a charge from the front with relative confidence or provide fire support from the sides or rear. This tank is quite sufficient in holding its own on the battlefield in many situations where a lighter vehicle cannot.
 
−
 
 
−
Another significant note of this vehicle is its considerably fast reverse rate, the highest of its Rank and Battle-Rating for the nation's faction, topping at 17 km/h. During situations where close-quarters engagement is expected, an unorthodox strategy can be utilized when the operator of the IS tank re-positions the vehicle 90 degrees and drive in reverse towards the enemy. By driving in reverse with the rear-facing the opposition, the engine blocks make a crude yet somewhat effective shield and protecting the more delicate crew. As the fuel tanks are mostly stored at the front on the left and right side of the driver's station, the risk of fire and fuel-tank explosion is reduced significantly (but not completely eliminated) and thus, the tank is able to resist even the most powerful of shots. Be aware that more experienced players may attempt to instead fire at the more exposed turret of the IS tank and instantly knocking out the crew with a common APHE penetrating the shell.
 
  
−
When engaging the common Tiger tank and Panzer IV models, each of these vehicles retains the design flaw of 90 degree flat armour plates on the front and sides of each respective vehicle. The IS-1's 85 mm cannon should have little no difficulty in penetrating this and destroying the opposition's vehicle in a single shot if this weakness is exploited. The Panther and occasional Tiger II models are more considerably dangerous and difficult to dispatch when encountering them head-on due to the thicker and sloped armour of which the 85 mm cannon of the IS-1 cannot penetrate. In head-on engagements, operators of this vehicle should note to precisely target the right and left side turret mantlet of each respective vehicles instead. Time expended in attempting to find a penetration confirmation indication on the cross-hair when inspecting the sloped front plate is time wasted and instead, should be diverted on precise targeting of the mantlet.  Other more common tanks such as opposition USSR KV, IS and T-34 models are usually less of a concern than the common Panther tank, as most of these respective tanks also inherit the weakness of somewhat slopped frontal chassis and turret armour which can be easily penetrated even from significant distances with a precise aim.
+
* [[M4A3E2 (76) W|M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo]]: Engage with caution. The 76 mm could penetrate through the front hull with ease at average combat ranges. The front hull armour is impervious to APCR in most cases and could bounce most AP shots if angled correctly. Focus on weak spots such as the lower side armour and the turret ring, or even the shot trap on the lower sections of the gun mantlet.
 +
* [[Sturer_Emil|Sturer Emil]]: Picking a long-range fight with Sturer Emil from the front is suicide, the Emil's 128 mm will reach and penetrate the SU-85M before it is in position to fire back. Only engage if certain the Emil is unaware of the {{PAGENAME}}'s presence on its flanks, or point it out to allies for more mobile friendlies to engage and destroy it. Allies could also divert its attention from the SU-85M to allow for an 85 mm shot into the thin armour on it.
  
 
=== Modules ===
 
=== Modules ===
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 
!Tier
 
!Tier
 
! colspan="2" |Mobility
 
! colspan="2" |Mobility
Line 224: Line 199:
 
|
 
|
 
|}
 
|}
 +
=== Pros and cons ===
 +
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Do not use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - they have a substitution in the form of softer "inadequate", "effective".''-->
  
−
=== Pros and cons ===
 
−
<!--Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".-->
 
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
−
* Good armour
+
* Modest Armour
−
* Sufficient firepower
+
* 85mm gun is still effective for all vehicles at close range (except, in some cases, the IS-2)
−
* High rate of fire
+
* Access to APCR ammunition.
−
* Good mobility
+
* Good speed of 40 km/h with great manoeuvrability on most angles and surfaces
−
* Significantly fast reverse speed
 
−
* Ability to fire APCR
 
−
* Extremely durable against in down-tiered battles (when encountering lower rank M4 Shermans, Valentines, Pz.IV etc.)
 
−
* Re-positioning of fuel tanks reducing chances of fires.
 
−
* Player skill compatibility between older and newer KV and IS models
 
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
−
* Poor gun depression (a common trait in all USSR tanks)
+
* Gun depression is painful, even on a gentle slope
−
* Large silhouette and profile (slightly longer than its KV predecessor)
+
* Turret turning time is enough for an enemy to aim and do a point-blank shot (from 250m)
−
* Difficult to angle armour due to weaker hull cheeks
+
* Like most tank destroyers, it comes without a turret
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!--Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).-->
+
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/historical reference" (example: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Name-vehicles/historical reference) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to include links to sources at the end of the article.''-->
 
===Development===
 
===Development===
−
The start of the development for a new heavy tank in the Red Army came from the many criticisms of their current heavy tank, the [[KV-1 (ZiS-5)|KV-1]]. The KV-1 had poor mobility and a lack of firepower and armour advantage over the standard [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]], plus the KV-1 was more expensive to produce for no real advantage. Attempts to remedy this problem produced the ''KV-1S'' and the ''[[KV-85]]'', which tried to make the KV-1 more mobile, more ergonomic, and have better firepower. Though they were improvements over the original KV-1 design, it was already determined that the KV-1 designs are to be replaced by a new heavy tank design and the newer KV-1 developments were to be interim designs until the heavy tank development is complete.  
+
The development for this vehicle began in 1943 to supplement the firepower the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] and [[KV-1 (ZiS-5)|KV-1]] has. Before then, the T-34 and KV-1 tanks are more than adequate to deal with the German Panzer forces, but by the end of 1942, the appearance of the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] revealed that the German armoured forces were becoming more developed and more armoured. This reveal showed the Red Army that needed better guns in order to deal with the rising threat of these new German vehicles.
  
−
The heavy tank project, code-named ''Object 237'', had its basis from the cancelled KV-13 program and was restarted from the discovery of the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] after one was captured in Leningrad, thus it began in January 1943. However, despite the ensuing development, the intense tank fighting in 1943 in Kursk and ensuing operations forced the Object 237 to see action early, with its turret used on the KV-85, which itself was built atop the KV-1S hull. The turret mounted the new 85 mm D-5T gun and would be a great firepower advantage enjoyed by the Soviet tank forces as it gave them a heavy tank with comparable firepower to the Tiger I's 88 mm cannon. At the end of 1943, the Object 237 project was finished and was accepted into service as the '''IS-85''', or the '''IS-1''', named after Iosef (Joseph) Stalin, the current leader of the Soviet Union during World War II, putting an end to the Voroshilov (KV) line of tanks. The IS-1 began to be delivered in October 1943 and went into service in the same month. The IS-1 stayed in service until January 1944, when its production also ended with about 200 units produced.
+
The search for a better gun led to the development of the D-5 85 mm gun, which was a modified anti-aircraft gun made by design bureaus of Vasiliy Grabin and Fyodor Petrov. It was found that the new gun was unable to be mounted on the current T-34 or KV-1, so it was to be mounted as a self-propelled gun like the [[SU-122]], which is a self-propelled gun made on a T-34 chassis. The vehicle to be produced was designated the '''[[SU-85]]''' and was similar to the SU-122, just replacing the 122 mm gun with an 85 mm one. The gun that was to be mounted in the self-propelled configuration was designated the D-5S (S for self-propelled) and the vehicle was produced at the Uralmash factory. Modifications were made overtime during its production such as a telescopic sight and a new ball gun mantlet, these modified vehicles were designated the ''SU-85-II''. Up to 2,050 units were produced from mid-1943 to late 1944.
  
 
===Combat usage===
 
===Combat usage===
−
The IS-1, like the KV-85 before it, was a great assist to the Soviet tank forces, giving them a heavily armoured tank with a great 85 mm gun that could defeat most of the German tanks in service except their heaviest ones such as the [[Tiger E|Tiger I]] and the [[Panther D|Panther]] tanks. The IS-1 was issued to Guards Heavy Tank Regiments for service, most notably the 1st, 8th, and 13th Guards Heavy Tank Regiments which saw service in Ukraine and Slovakia. Within a standard IS-1 issue tank, there were often 59 85 mm rounds and 2,500 rounds for the three DT machine guns, which allowed it to have both superior armaments and capacity compared to the standard [[Tiger E|Tiger I]].
+
The SU-85 saw service in August 1943 in Soviet service, which coincides the time the Soviets engage in a counteroffensive against the Battle of Kursk. It was praised for its low profile to be able to conceal itself and its excellent mobility. The initial production batch had low visibility due to lack of optics, with only four periscopes in the design, but this was improved on the '''SU-85M''' with a commander's cupola seen on the later variants of the T-34. The 85 mm gun was able to destroy a Tiger tank from 1000 meters out, proving much capable against the newer German tank designs. Though capable, its firepower was still seen as lacking considering the Tiger could still destroy it and T-34s from up to 2,000 meters away. The lack of range on the SU-85, plus the up-arming of T-34s from the 76.2 mm F-34 gun to the same 85 mm gun as well in the [[T-34-85]] caused the production of the SU-85 to be cancelled in late 1944 as it no longer provided any beneficial firepower over the standard tank unit.
  
−
The IS-1 had a short-lived production due to advances in Soviet tank technology. Their standard [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] medium tanks were upgraded with the same 85 mm gun on the IS-1 into the [[T-34-85]]. The lack of firepower advantage the IS-1 now presented due to this upgrade prompted an up-gunning of the IS tank with a much bigger gun. After further development in late 1943, the IS-1 evolved into the [[IS-2]], which has the larger and much more powerful 122 mm A-19 gun.
+
Even after it was retired from Soviet service, replaced by the more powerful [[SU-100]], it was exported to Soviet allies in the Warsaw Pact after World War II. The SU-85s were either kept as tank destroyers or converted into armour recovery or command vehicles. These vehicles saw service in North Korea, Vietnam, and may still be in service today by Central European countries like Albania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Romania.
  
−
=== In-game description ===
+
=== In-game descriptions ===
−
The IS-1 was developed in the spring and summer of 1943 by factory No. 100's design bureau led by Z.Y. Kotin. The tank's hull design and overall layout were taken from the previously developed experimental KV-13 tank. The main priority was creating reliable protection against the German 88 mm Flak 18 artillery cannon and making considerable mobility improvements by reducing the tank's mass and introducing a new epicyclic gearbox. The results of battles in 1943 revealed the need for a new heavy assault tank to replace the outdated mass-produced KV tanks. The prototype, designated IS, was built, tested and put into service in the Red Army in July-September 1943. Thanks to its new gearbox and the more streamlined placement of its strengthened armour, the new tank possessed superior mobility.
+
"The increasing armour thickness of the enemy's new heavy tanks necessitated a more powerful SPG. A newly planned 100 mm weapon was being reworked. So in July 1944, the 85 mm D-5-S85 cannon was installed in a newly designed SPG cabin with thicker 75 mm frontal armour, a spacious fighting compartment and a command cupola. This SPG was designated SU-85M and was produced until December 1944. The vehicle, equipped with a new gun mantlet, fired at a rate of 6-8 shots per minute. Its elevation angle was -5° to +25°, and its traversing angle was 20° (up to 10° to each side). In contrast to the SU-85, the vehicle's ammunition capacity was increased to 60 shells. The SPG's crew used PPSh submachine guns and F-1 hand grenades for self-defence.
  
−
The IS's tight layout in its habitable section meant that a fifth crew member - the gunner/radio officer - would not fit inside. His duties were distributed between the commander and the driver.
+
In 1944, 315 SU-85M SPGs were manufactured in total.
  
−
Three crew were housed in the turret: the tank commander and the driver worked to the left of the gun, and the loader to the right. A command cupola with 82 mm thick vertical armour was installed in the tank's turret, and its hull had a hatch leading to the underside of the tank to allow the crew to evacuate in an emergency.
+
The SPGs were used as cover for medium tanks and to offer them fire support when necessary. They were able to quickly move around the front both defensively and offensively. In defence, SU-85s often made use of ambush tactics. The vehicles hid at convenient distances along the enemy tanks' path and, letting them approach to within 300-600 m, opened precision fire. Before T-34-85 tanks went into mass production, this SPG was the primary means of effective battle against German tanks and played the important role of a mobile tank destroyer in the Red Army.
  
−
The IS-1 was armed with an 85 mm D-5T Mod. 1943 tank cannon and three machine guns.
+
Captured SPGs of this type were used by the Wehrmacht. There were entire regiments of tank destroyers consisting of these vehicles - the 23rd Tank Division, for example.
  
−
It entered mass production in October 1943 at the ChKZ factory. In total, 130 of them were built.
+
SU-85 and SU-85M SPGs were put into service in the Polish Army.
  
−
The IS-1 was deployed in battles from February 1944 up to and including the winter of 1945. The results of these battles led to the conclusion that the armament and armour of the new tank were not equal to those of German heavy tanks. At that time, it was recommended that the shape and armour of the frontal hull be changed and the tank's armament upgraded immediately.
+
In spite of all the SPG's advantages, its firepower was insufficient to combat enemy heavy tanks at long ranges."
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
−
<!--Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.-->
+
''An excellent addition to the article will be video guides, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''
−
 
 
−
;Skins
 
  
−
* [http://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?q=%23is1 Skins and camouflages for the IS-1 from live.warthunder.com]
+
== Read also ==
−
 
+
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example,''
−
;Videos
 
−
{{Youtube-gallery|EyD1M_Mi-dw|'''The Shooting Range #61''' - ''Pages of History'' section at 09:02 discusses the IS-1.}}
 
−
 
 
−
==References==
 
−
<references />
 
−
 
 
−
== See also ==
 
−
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 
  
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
 
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
  
−
== External links ==
+
''ETC.''
 +
 
 +
== Sources ==
 
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
  
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
−
* ''encyclopedia page on the tank;''
 
 
* ''other literature.''
 
* ''other literature.''
  
−
{{USSR heavy tanks}}
+
{{USSR tank destroyers}}

Revision as of 22:20, 18 May 2020

Rank IV USSR | Premium | Golden Eagles
Tu-1 Pack
SU-85M
ussr_su_85m.png
SU-85M
USSR flag.png USSR
III Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
5.0 5.0 5.0
Class:
Research:33 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:105 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

GarageImage SU-85M.jpg


The SU-85M is a rank III Soviet tank destroyer with a battle rating of 5.0 (AB/RB/SB). It was introduced in during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The SU-85M is basically the beefed up version of the regular SU-85 with an increased frontal armour thickness from 45 mm into 75 mm that can save it from shots that would've been lethal for the SU-85. It also has an APCR shell modification for increased lethality against enemy tanks.

When taking the vehicle out the first time, two things will be instantly noticeable: The armour and slow movement of the gun. The former being welcome and the latter being very painful. With the right ammunition between AP and the APCR, the SU-85M is a very good vehicle in the role of a sniper and ambusher. Weary tanks will pop out of corners, unhappy to see a SU-85M locked and loaded. The SU-85M can also be used as a long range sniper due to the 85 mm's good velocity and damage, which could destroy vehicles in just one shot. Range also comes at an advantage as the 75 mm of front sloped armour at a distance of more than 1,500 m is impervious to most tanks of its BR.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Driver's hatch)
Armour Front Sides Rear Roof
Hull 75 mm (49-50°) Front glacis
45 mm (60°) Lower glacis
70 mm (50°) Driver's hatch 		45 mm (15-41°) Top
45 mm Bottom 		45 mm (48°) Top
45 mm (48°) Bottom 		20 mm
Superstructure 75 mm (49-50°) Front glacis
75 + 75 mm (0-89°) Gun mantlet 		45 mm (15-41°) 45 mm 20 mm
Armour Sides Roof
Cupola 45 mm 20 mm

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.

Mobility

Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 60 10 31.6 710 954 22.47 30.19
Realistic 55 9 442 500 13.99 15.82

Armaments

Main article: D-5S (85 mm)
85 mm D-5S
Capacity Vertical
guidance 		Horizontal
guidance 		Stabilizer
60 -3°/+20° ±8° N/A
Turret rotation speed (°/s)
Mode Stock Upgraded Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
Arcade 4.8 6.6 _.__ __._ __._
Realistic 4.8 5.6 _.__ __._ __._
Reloading rate (seconds)
Stock Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
9.6 __.__ __.__ __.__
Ammunition
Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration in mm @ 90°
10m 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
BR-365K APHE 147 143 126 107 90 77
BR-365A APHEBC 135 133 125 115 106 97
O-365K HE 12 12 11 11 11 11
BR-365P APCR 180 175 136 100 73 54
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
in m/s 		Projectile
Mass in kg 		Fuse delay

in m:

Fuse sensitivity

in mm:

Explosive Mass in g
(TNT equivalent): 		Normalization At 30°
from horizontal: 		Ricochet:
0% 50% 100%
BR-365K APHE 792 9.2 1.2 15 81.6 -1° 47° 60° 65°
BR-365A APHEBC 792 9.2 1.2 15 164 +4° 48° 63° 71°
O-365K HE 780 9.5 0.1 0.3 646 +0° 79° 80° 81°
BR-365P APCR 1030 5.4 N/A N/A N/A +1.5° 66° 70° 72°
Ammo racks
Ammo racks of the SU-85M.
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		Visual
discrepancy
60 46 (+14) 31 (+29) 16 (+44) 1 (+59) No

Usage in the battles

As a tank destroyer, the SU-85M's job is to hunt down and ambush tanks and destroy them. When aiming at a tank, prioritize the area the enemy gunner sits at as if the first shot does not completely destroy the enemy vehicle, the downed gunner forces the enemy to fallback as the SU-85M goes through the lengthy reload time.

Do not attempt to brawl with this vehicle as it is unsuited for mobile, frontal assaults due to the fixed gun traverse. Keep calm and wait for the enemy to roll into the gun sights instead so while the enemy panics upon the sight of the tank destroyer, the SU-85M can use this time to aim for a good hit.

Heavy tanks and medium tanks should be engaged with caution due to their lethality against the SU-85M's armour. Heavy tanks are a concern as some have enough armour and angling to prevent a reliable penetration by the 85 mm, like the M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo, IS-1, IS-2, and Tiger I. Have them distracted against teammates first to avert their cannons from the SU-85M's location. While they are engaged against them, aim the 85 mm onto weak points on their front armour, or flank around and attack them on their side armour. Though most medium tanks will be able to be destroyed by an 85 mm shot, some medium tanks could resist the 85 mm shot by a high degree such as Panthers.

  • M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo: Engage with caution. The 76 mm could penetrate through the front hull with ease at average combat ranges. The front hull armour is impervious to APCR in most cases and could bounce most AP shots if angled correctly. Focus on weak spots such as the lower side armour and the turret ring, or even the shot trap on the lower sections of the gun mantlet.
  • Sturer Emil: Picking a long-range fight with Sturer Emil from the front is suicide, the Emil's 128 mm will reach and penetrate the SU-85M before it is in position to fire back. Only engage if certain the Emil is unaware of the SU-85M's presence on its flanks, or point it out to allies for more mobile friendlies to engage and destroy it. Allies could also divert its attention from the SU-85M to allow for an 85 mm shot into the thin armour on it.

Modules

Tier Mobility Protection Firepower
I Tracks Parts Horizontal Drive BR-365A
II Suspension Brake System FPE Adjustment of Fire
III Filters Crew Replenishment Elevation Mechanism BR-365P
IV Transmission Engine

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Modest Armour
  • 85mm gun is still effective for all vehicles at close range (except, in some cases, the IS-2)
  • Access to APCR ammunition.
  • Good speed of 40 km/h with great manoeuvrability on most angles and surfaces

Cons:

  • Gun depression is painful, even on a gentle slope
  • Turret turning time is enough for an enemy to aim and do a point-blank shot (from 250m)
  • Like most tank destroyers, it comes without a turret

History

Development

The development for this vehicle began in 1943 to supplement the firepower the T-34 and KV-1 has. Before then, the T-34 and KV-1 tanks are more than adequate to deal with the German Panzer forces, but by the end of 1942, the appearance of the Tiger I revealed that the German armoured forces were becoming more developed and more armoured. This reveal showed the Red Army that needed better guns in order to deal with the rising threat of these new German vehicles.

The search for a better gun led to the development of the D-5 85 mm gun, which was a modified anti-aircraft gun made by design bureaus of Vasiliy Grabin and Fyodor Petrov. It was found that the new gun was unable to be mounted on the current T-34 or KV-1, so it was to be mounted as a self-propelled gun like the SU-122, which is a self-propelled gun made on a T-34 chassis. The vehicle to be produced was designated the SU-85 and was similar to the SU-122, just replacing the 122 mm gun with an 85 mm one. The gun that was to be mounted in the self-propelled configuration was designated the D-5S (S for self-propelled) and the vehicle was produced at the Uralmash factory. Modifications were made overtime during its production such as a telescopic sight and a new ball gun mantlet, these modified vehicles were designated the SU-85-II. Up to 2,050 units were produced from mid-1943 to late 1944.

Combat usage

The SU-85 saw service in August 1943 in Soviet service, which coincides the time the Soviets engage in a counteroffensive against the Battle of Kursk. It was praised for its low profile to be able to conceal itself and its excellent mobility. The initial production batch had low visibility due to lack of optics, with only four periscopes in the design, but this was improved on the SU-85M with a commander's cupola seen on the later variants of the T-34. The 85 mm gun was able to destroy a Tiger tank from 1000 meters out, proving much capable against the newer German tank designs. Though capable, its firepower was still seen as lacking considering the Tiger could still destroy it and T-34s from up to 2,000 meters away. The lack of range on the SU-85, plus the up-arming of T-34s from the 76.2 mm F-34 gun to the same 85 mm gun as well in the T-34-85 caused the production of the SU-85 to be cancelled in late 1944 as it no longer provided any beneficial firepower over the standard tank unit.

Even after it was retired from Soviet service, replaced by the more powerful SU-100, it was exported to Soviet allies in the Warsaw Pact after World War II. The SU-85s were either kept as tank destroyers or converted into armour recovery or command vehicles. These vehicles saw service in North Korea, Vietnam, and may still be in service today by Central European countries like Albania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Romania.

In-game descriptions

"The increasing armour thickness of the enemy's new heavy tanks necessitated a more powerful SPG. A newly planned 100 mm weapon was being reworked. So in July 1944, the 85 mm D-5-S85 cannon was installed in a newly designed SPG cabin with thicker 75 mm frontal armour, a spacious fighting compartment and a command cupola. This SPG was designated SU-85M and was produced until December 1944. The vehicle, equipped with a new gun mantlet, fired at a rate of 6-8 shots per minute. Its elevation angle was -5° to +25°, and its traversing angle was 20° (up to 10° to each side). In contrast to the SU-85, the vehicle's ammunition capacity was increased to 60 shells. The SPG's crew used PPSh submachine guns and F-1 hand grenades for self-defence.

In 1944, 315 SU-85M SPGs were manufactured in total.

The SPGs were used as cover for medium tanks and to offer them fire support when necessary. They were able to quickly move around the front both defensively and offensively. In defence, SU-85s often made use of ambush tactics. The vehicles hid at convenient distances along the enemy tanks' path and, letting them approach to within 300-600 m, opened precision fire. Before T-34-85 tanks went into mass production, this SPG was the primary means of effective battle against German tanks and played the important role of a mobile tank destroyer in the Red Army.

Captured SPGs of this type were used by the Wehrmacht. There were entire regiments of tank destroyers consisting of these vehicles - the 23rd Tank Division, for example.

SU-85 and SU-85M SPGs were put into service in the Polish Army.

In spite of all the SPG's advantages, its firepower was insufficient to combat enemy heavy tanks at long ranges."

Media

An excellent addition to the article will be video guides, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.

Read also

Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example,

  • reference to the series of the vehicles;
  • links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.

ETC.

Sources

Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:

  • topic on the official game forum;
  • other literature.


USSR tank destroyers
SU-76M  SU-76M · SU-76M (5th Gv.Kav.Corps) · SU-85A
SU-57B  SU-57B · SU-76D
T-34 Derivatives  SU-122 · SU-85 · SU-85M · SU-100 · SU-122P
Heavy Tank Derivatives  SU-100Y · ISU-122 · ISU-122S · SU-152 · ISU-152 · Object 268
SU-100P and Derivatives  SU-100P · Object 120
Wheeled  YaG-10 (29-K)
Airborne  ASU-57 · ASU-85
Rocket  BM-8-24 · BM-13N · BM-31-12
ATGM  IT-1 · Shturm-S · Object 775 · Khrizantema-S
Artillery  2S1 · 2S3M
Other  SU-5-1 · ZiS-30 · SU-122-54
USA  SU-57

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