|This member plays War Thunder on Windows|
|ATGM main, which likes his indirect strikes. Incoming artillery fire!|
|This member considers FV102 Striker the best tank in game.|
|This member considers IS-7 the best tank in rank V.|
Who am I?
I'm a British ground forces main, registered my account at 2016, but really started playing in 2018. Mostly playing in AB, since I feel like vehicles there have most balanced stats game-wise there, if you forget about wallhack and aim assist up to 1km range. If not for those two facts, I'd never ever leave AB, lol. Actually, either of these options on their own would be fine, but together it's is a bit too much sometimes.
I do have some planes, but bombers that I used are very moody mistresses, they have gunners that either destroy every fighter in 360 degrees and on max range, or do nothing. Hurricane MK IIB/trop and Nimrod II so far left the best impression on me.
Favorite ground vehicles so far:
A30 SP Avenger - It really lives up to it's name, whether you snipe with it, or drive it GTA style. Never fails to deliver your salt, even in uptier.
A39 Tortoise - It is fun to play as breakthrough tank, or just to be a giant "boss" tank for players to shoot at, preventing spawn camping. You really will love those instant karma moments, even if you get nothing out of it. Though Germans love to destroy it, and some players outright punch through the middle of it, sadly.
Falcon - It's more effective tank than most rank 5-6 tanks, especially if you know how to fire at tracks with auto cannons, forcing enemy to turn and get destroyed... And it's a good AA, lol. But with every patch Gaijin increases repair price for it in AB by 6k. It's 22k already, while ZSU-57-2 is 2k. Why??? I dunno, beats me. Be careful with trigger discipline, single belt rearms for a minute and then reloads for as long. You will be destroyed :D .
All British ATGMs - That feeling when people just despair and give up in their own cover under ATGM rain is priceless. They launch up to 10 artys at once on you. It makes you feel special, even if you do die from it.
Hated ground vehicles so far:
Conqueror MK2 - God, this thing gets lit on fire even by random vehicles blowing up near to it's side, and explodes from random shots to the track. I even got destroyed by Centurion AVRE, that MISSED me. YEAH. I realize that this vehicle is great in RB and all, but why it is so flammable in AB is beyond me.
Warrior - I love it, but I also hate it. Why BMP-1 cannon shell can hull break warrior even when it hits add-on armor, and cannot hull break striker? Why BMP-2 bullets can instantly destroy armour plates from over 1.5KM and instakill it? I got hit by ATGM from IT-1 and lived somehow, losing all armour on my left side, but cannot survive BMP? How is that??? Common sence is overrated, I guess.
IS-4M - whenever I meet it, I don't live long enough to understand where to shoot it, lol.
RELATIVE CAMERA CONTROLS FOR ATGM
Okay, this is very seriously important for any british ATGM main, if you really want to destroy the opposition. It fixes camera issues in melee range and when camping on steep hills.
You need to set "relative camera angle" for your aiming, by going to control-tank-camera control - "view in battle - ground (Y axis)".
In new menu you need to activate "relative controls" and "keep value for disabled axis", then set buttons for "Increase value", "decrease value", "enable axis" and "reset axis value". For example i set them to NUM 7,9,8,4 respectively. The sensitivity is up to taste, but i took it to the extreme, as it's faster to do.
What it does: you use "decrease" and "increase" value to set a direction for camera (down or up basically), and on press of "activate axis" it detaches your camera from your reticle by a certain angle. You can make your camera look sky-high up, so when you actually aim in front of you, you can now truly aim for enemy, not just randomly fire missiles everywhere, enabling you full melee combat capabilities, allowing you to look behind ridges, while aiming, and fixing the damn problem i showed in first post. Or you can fire upwards without looking at the back of your vehicle (though that's usually fixable by just pressing Z, but i digress :) )
When you are done, you use "reset axis value" and "activate axis" to return to normal aiming mode.
It's also possible to do to horizontal axis, allowing to see people behind rocks as you turn missiles there, though it's less useful.
Now only thing left is finding out if it's possible to ruin semi-auto aiming by triggering manual control by a button somehow. Though i doubt i'ts possible.
Space for special MG tables/graphs (if ever done, lol):
Yes i am aware that different rank MG's and minor caliber changes of certain factions should and might be different on different ranks, but i digress for now, since difference seems insignificant to me ingame, as seen in 7.92.
Anyone is welcome to add info on different calibers, or add specific faction calibre (like french 15.00 or whatever)
HT: heavy tanks, HTD: heavy TD, as in Foch, ISU, and so on.
By heavy damage is implied, that it can destroy some module, but doesn't pen entire vehicle. (if ammo doesnt explode in 1 hit, specify that)
By destruction implied, that if it hits you, with it's ROF you are probably screwed.
low caliber SPAA and autocannons included to compare with french coax autocannon and check other abnormal dps stuff (pen*rof), do not add more of those
|Caliber||presumable pen at 100m (against rolled homogenous armour)||ROF||Who uses:||Tree removal (y/n)||Stone wall removal (y/n)||Damage to external armour||DPS to flat rear of TD (45 mm homogenous armor) (tested mostly on IT1)||DPS/TTK to sloped LVeh (50-65 mm aluminium AA7017)||Dps/TTK to angled sides of Lveh/armored turret (20-30mm~~ aluminium 7039)||TTK to unangled/ unarmored LVeh (15mm in general, aluminium 7017)|
|30mm warrior gun, APDS loadout||101||Low||Warrior||Yes||Yes||ERA, doesn't seem to do much else||Damages engine||Heavy damage, 6 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage, ~2 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage|
|~23cal AA only SPAA gun combo||~45||Insane||ZSU-23-4, wirbelwind with no ap ammo and such||yes||Yes||Significant||Damages engine.||appearantly deteriorates even permament armorto 0 in 3 seconds or so, resulting in destruction. RNG/bug/feature?||Destruction||RUN|
|20cal vulcan gun||~39||~infinity||M163||yes||Yes||It seems to not care.||Unknown||Instant death due to millions of ricochets all over the smallest weakspots. Hilarious.||RUN||RUN|
|20mm Crusader AA cannons and such||~39||Heavy since twin guns..||Most early autocannon tanks and such||yes||Yes||Seems to not damage 5mm plates||Penetrated, despite it being statistically impossible, or Bypasses external armor (5mm)||Unknown||Destruction||Destruction|
|BMP2 30mm autocannon, AP-T load||~65||medium or extreme||Bmp2||Y||Y||instant destruction||Unknown, probably destruction||AP-T seems to not penetrate ~60, for no reason. It seems having high ground may help.||Destruction||Destruction|
|20cal coax cannon||supposedly 34 (unverified source)
42 , 39 up to 500m by ingame stats
|Heavy||French rank 6, amx-30 (r5) and some top german MBTs||unknown||unknown||Unknown||Unknown||Can cause Destruction for unknown reason.
No damage to ~55mm of alloy7039, or just doesn't damage heavily sloped armor. (unlikely)
|Destruction, but no AOE damage, so it damages weakspot of LV with 30mm but nothing more so far. At least from french gun.||Destruction, 1 sec max|
|15.0 mm MG||45 by ingame stats (how even?^^^^) , heavy pen falloff any further, just like in BMP2 case...||unknown||French HT and HTD||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|14.5 mm KPVT||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
42 by ingame stats, but seems doubtful. (or it's inaccurate)
|low to Medium||is7, is10m, soviet HTD rank 5||unknown||unknown||Unknown||Unknown||Does nothing to 60+mm, but either 38 or 44mm on warrior's alloy 7039 rear achieved destruction. assumed 50mm of AA7039 seems to hold off.||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction|
|12.7 mm DShK and such||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
27 by ingame stats
|low to Medium||HT and HTD , some MBTs of rank4+,||unknown||unknown||Unknown||None||None||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|12.7 mm M2HB USA edition||25 by ingame stats, but seems to be around 26.||low to Medium||USA on rank2+, half of JPN vehicles on any BR||unknown||unknown||unknown||None||somehow did damage after 5 sec or fire from M103.
perhaps hit weakspot with ~30mm.
|unknown||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|8.00||9 by ingame stats (how even if 7.92 is better?)||???||Italy up to rank 2||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|7.92||less than 13?
12 by ingame stats
|Medium||German tanks before rank 4, their HT and HTD past rank 4||unknown||unknown||ERA only||Unknown||seems to do no damage||Unknown, since nobody tries to use it on selected vehicles||Resistable|
|7.7||9 by ingame stats||unknown||Japanese rank 1-3||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|7.62||less than 13?
9 by ingame stats
|Low to medium, heavy on rank 6||German medium vehicles rank4+, french before rank 6 and most british tanks use something similiar, most USSR mbts||No||No||ERA only||No damage||No damage||Nonexistant/ignorable||seems to be useless even point-blank vs ~13mm aluminium alloy|
|7,50||9 by ingame stats||unknown||French at various ranks||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
I gather that SPAA guns penetrate at least 7mm more than ingame tip says, at least for aluminium... And with highter ROF it may cause instakill even on vehicles, that are supposed to be permamently resistant to it, so probably MG does that as well. Perhaps there is some HP value in structures that i'm unaware of or sth.
Also in my experience insanely high ROF of BMP2 allows to annihilate warrior through side add-on plates from over 2kilometers, which should be impossible, which only further increases mine suspicions. Even if we consider plates as dead after ~10 hits, this still seems fishy. The only time i survived BMP2 was when it was completely stock and fired on me at 20 degree angle in LowROF mode, and i executed them in 2 seconds (so 3 seconds TTK time from ZSU test is still relevant in my eyes).
After getting more proper specific info for all calibres (without oversimplifying it maybe, if someone can add info for rest nations, or even per-rank, if possible) i'd want to find a way to convert it into colourful graph or table.
For lols, we could also make similiar autocannon chart for MBT armour VS IFV/combat SPAA autoguns, since it's appearanly a problem for tanks on all ranks.
Conclusion for armor protection so far:
AP-T (incindenary Armor piercing) ammo negates inclination armor modifiers, just like APHE of soviets, which makes it as good as APDS against angled armor, which is extremely unfair (lol).
However, IAP seems to have much worse ricochets angle than APDS and such shells, so high ground negates it as long as you have 65mm total.APDS cannot pen much more at this angle either, because it has no modifiers, just huge raw numbers.
This kind of explains how the hell soviets HMG destroy sloped turret of warrior in 1 hit, but sometimes cannot destroy Striker's hull even with BMP2 guns for example.
The weirdness is further increased by fact that aluminium alloy has huge penalty to armor (which is not properly displayed in statistics, and goes all ways from 20% to 50%) and insane ROF of auto cannons and such, which convert 5% chance of pen into guaranteed kill.
External plating often seems to be completely ignored whenever penetration of enemy ammo > armor of plate, or just gets destroyed in 5 hits at it. Doesn't even have to be angled for this at certain points. This explains how the hell BMP-2 deletes warrior from 2km range.Even if you nitpick and check side skirts from top and it says "6mm" it still makes no sence, since 44+6=50+angle because firing distance, that's already enough to stop bullets from 500m, but protection analysis says "34". I guess if you take 70% of both numbers that's going to be it. (because aluminium alloy i guess) That's all fun and all, but you still have RNG roll to get penned at ranges where armor is insignificantly better than penetration.Seems to be proved by panther D side (40+5) being penned by Crusader AAmk2, and striker armor being eventually destroyed by "shilka". Also most light vehicles have glaring weakspots with 10mm less armor (like this isn't enough, lol)
As in, the protection analysis feature seems to like to ignore external plates for life, so it's safe to assume, that on random occasion bullets can just go through them anyway. They still protect from HESH and single cannon shots though.
High ground seems to help against MG and Autocannon in case of solid permament armor, however if in case of Striker transmission eats any bullets coming through LFP, in case of warrior the external shield (made of rolled homogenous armor, tons of NERA and even 38mm more aluminium, just saying) that is supposed to stop anything going for driver thought LFP will be ignored, resulting in instant death, since bullets will just pen it and explode the ammo rack through driver (because screw logic i guess).
Required precise test of every MG type onto warrior's ventilation shield weakspot, specifically frontal protection plate and rear (on both the 38mm door and 44.4mm rest) to find out if it's all the same with 12mm, 14mm, 20mm coaxial, 7.62mm for this. External armor seems to be majorly useless against kinetic damage, so yeah.
Even if BRs allow different ranks of MGs to be used on you, simplified graph would look kind of like this:
Your vehicle's hull vulnerability to MG in your matchmaking:
I want to do it through Colours if possible.
Black = instant death,
red = only tankable by front, can still destroy your armor or damage fatal weakspots/turret/cupola and cause your death somehow,
orange = Only tankable by front,
yellow = angled sides can tank it,
green = only rear or not-so-obvious weakspot is endangered,
white/blue/idk = no threat.
Instead of faction names could use flags.
Possibly, we will want two of these per vehicle, if it will be known, that high ROF or focused fire of many vehicles even of low cal can delete your vehicle, or simply to show danger with/without weakspots in general (for example warrior wearing ADD-on armor is okay as long as you broadside and they fire on your hull, but they still can try to wreck your turret with HMG, so GG., as for without ADD-on armor... well... rip.) Perhaps i can use lighting icon to symbolize "likely crew incapacitation".
Some random images left by wiki moderator to help me remember how to upload pictures:
Link to upload stuff : http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload .
Talk/comment section, In case if you want to write exactly here:
@Bangerland, here are a couple of options for formatting images here on the wiki. You can check out options on Google for GIFs (although, I don't think the formatting is much different for them). You want to make sure when uploading images, that you don't upload copyrighted images (without permission). Feel free to load images you take from the game, public domain images or copyrighted images which you have received permission and annotate in the information section of the image posted.
Here is the link to upload images and GIFs: http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload
Does someone maybe know a way to use the marketplace thing without double authentication? Wanted to exchange some junk to get decals for fun, but this thing just wont let go... IDK why every company just assumes i have 2k$ phone, or have time to set up emulator, or even care about mine account's safety. It's really frustrating to me, because decal even costs like 0.13 points of whatever the currency is, and i could get 4 easily by dumping SU-85a, which i wasn't going to ever use anyway. If that's oficially and even unoficially not possible, at the very least some recommendation of easy to setup emulator would be nice. (bluestacks gave me headache previous time i tried to use it.) --U42773747 (talk) 21:51, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't have a recommendation. I was able to set up double authentication, but the market still would not let me purchase anything so I didn't pursue it any further. I have used Bluestacks and it seemed to be a resource hog and worked most of the time, but recently I have switched to MEmu (https://www.memuplay.com/) and that one seems to run a bit better and is fairly easy to get going, maybe that will help with the emulator portion. -- AN_TRN_26 (talk) 01:30, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
God, visual editor is so awkward to use, espechially if page has a lot of spacing made by Enter or such. Added placeholder table for Machine Guns to maybe some day make light tank protection table. --~~~~