Difference between revisions of "User:bangerland"
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As of 1.91: changes to module damage model cause HEAT to sometimes overpenetrate and go forward where it earlier was stopped or just exploded into tank.
As of 1.91: changes to module damage model cause HEAT to sometimes overpenetrate and go forward where it earlier was stopped or just exploded into tank.
RB: Is often a subject to change, as in one patch it's possible to explode yourself, and is impossible in another. Might or might not violently explode, wrecking light tanks, even your own tank, if allowed to by current patch.
RB: Is often a subject to change, as in one patch it's possible to explode yourself, and is impossible in another. Might or might not violently explode, wrecking light tanks, even your own tank, if allowed to by current patch.
Revision as of 08:44, 13 November 2019
|This member plays War Thunder on Windows|
|ATGM main, which likes his indirect strikes. Incoming artillery fire!|
|This member considers FV102 Striker the best tank in game.|
|This member considers IS-7 the best tank in rank V.|
- 1 Who am I?
- 2 Relative camera controls for ATGM
- 3 links to remember
- 4 Paranoia and conspiracy check corner
- 5 Talk/comment section
- 6 How to Sneak Up on Enemy Tanks in Arcade (Edited by AN_TRN_26)
- 7 Tank vision in Arcade mode (know thy enemy's location)
- 8 What does it mean for the flanker?
- 8.1 What to consider as a flanker
- 8.2 Radio communication and why it matters
- 8.3 Flanking tactics for different types of tanks
Who am I?
I'm a British ground forces main, registered my account at 2016, but really started playing in 2018. Mostly playing in AB, since I feel like vehicles there have most balanced stats game-wise there, if you forget about wallhack and aim assist up to 1 km range. If not for those two facts, I'd never ever leave AB, lol. Actually, either of these options on their own would be fine, but together it's is a bit too much sometimes.
If to not consider factions, i mostly use SPG and light tanks (including combat SPAA) and specialize in ATGM vehicles in particular. I dislike using medium tanks, due to them being flawed cannon fodder for no benefit, with very few exceptions. I like the idea of heavy tanks, but factions i play only have ridicilously flawed ones (to a point even 0.3 uptier means certain death even at 45 degree angle frontally), so i do not use them very often.
I do have some planes, but i practically do not play air mode. Bombers that I used are very moody mistresses, they have gunners that either destroy every fighter in 360 degrees and on max range, or do nothing. Hurricane MK IIB/trop and Nimrod II so far left the best impression on me, and so I mostly prefer sea fighters over anything else.
If you have issues with what i write, i mostly operate from game perspective and what i saw or did in it. I also accepted that i have to plaster a lot of pictures around, due to my texts often sounding like crazy talk. History does not interest me and might as well not exist, unless i am forced to write in certain style.
I do not mind if someone overrides and even deletes mine walls of text either, as long as new informations is not false, so don't worry about that. It is inevitable due to amount of stealth patches going on.
Favorite ground vehicles so far
A30 SP Avenger - It really lives up to it's name, whether you snipe with it, or drive it GTA style. Never fails to deliver your salt, even in uptier. Extremely sturdy and can survive shots that would end literally any other tank. Also has opened roof, which often lets APHE to fly out of it, to frustration of its opponents.
A39 Tortoise - It is fun to play as breakthrough tank, or just to be a giant "boss" tank for players to shoot at, preventing spawn camping. You really will love those instant karma moments, even if you get nothing out of it. Though Germans love to destroy it, and some players outright punch through the middle of it, sadly.
Falcon - It's more effective tank than most rank 5-6 tanks, especially if you know how to fire at tracks with auto cannons, forcing enemy to turn and get destroyed... And it's a good AA, lol. But with every patch Gaijin increases repair price for it in AB by 6k. Lately finally nerfed it from 22k to 14k. Why is it so expensive? I dunno, beats me. Be careful with trigger discipline, single belt rearms for a minute and then reloads for as long. You will be destroyed :D . French AMX-30 DCA is basically same thing, but hull has 230 mm armour which often deflects APHE point blank, but if it pens, the tank is toast.
Centurion Mk 1 - After playing with other nation, I can see how it's alright. It can bounce enemy shot when cutting a corner, then fire back at them and go on with it's business. And it's not terribly overtiered, like the rest of its tech line, so it can actually survive.
Radar SPAA in general - Since the lock-on update playing such SPAA became a bliss. As British player I mostly use Marksman right now, which can incinerate every light vehicle in 2km range on top of shredding anything that flies. It also generates hatemails like crazy, since people underestimate it due to it's snail speed and ridiculous size. In 10.0 there is Stormer HVM, which is very whimsical, but removes anything that flies next to instantly.
All British ATGMs - That feeling when people just despair and give up in their own cover under ATGM rain is priceless. They launch up to 10 artys at once on you and entire sniper gangs try to get you the entire match. It makes you feel special, even if you do die from it.
Chi-Ha Kai - the first tank in jap line that doesn't need HEAT to defeat something. It also has decent control. Can be used to steadily break enemy, at least in successive 1v1 duels. Massive rush will obliterate it. Actually, every tank after this one is mostly alright, though mostly its like this: glass cannon->tank that can actually bounce-> glass cannon -> tank that can actually bounce. Chi-to and Chi-to late are the most obvious successors of chi-ha kai and example of this rotation.
Chi-Ri II - Giant landship, easy to destroy, autoloader reload speed is not much better than godawful indestructible Cobra King, but if you'll manage to get it into proper spot near to capture point, so that nobody can get past friendly snipers without going straight into your APHE kill-zone, your enemies will regret everything. Actually, even better, work with M4A3E2 or similar tank and fire at enemy from behind it, once they fired their guns. That will work great on cluttered street, as nothing can destroy jumbo anyway, and you will punish them for not leaving earlier. Can destroy rank 1 HE heroes, Italian automobiles and bait opponents with secondary APHE gun. In AB, spaded chi-ri can even flank (what???) and destroy enemy's initial push on some maps before they realize where they're being shot from.
Honestly, all 7.0 japanese SPG are broken overpowered, but if you don't believe:
Ho-Ri Production - Probably even more awful tank than M4A3E2, balanced only by the fact, that rank 4 and 5 have enough counters to it. Can bounce anything at range, can tank APHE from most tanks, can ram you and make your tank useless, is literally unstoppable when used properly, can survive being shot at by 6 vehicles at once multiple times and destroy some of them back. Explodes to pure AP shot to transmission (French), ammo rack flanks (GE) and heavy SPG in general (jagdtiger, etc), can be slowly deconstructed by HEAT tank, occasionally destroys itself, trying to blow up T-54.
Type 60 ATM - Extremely flawed tank, which slowly grows onto you, if you actually take time to use it, instead of going straight into 7.7+. Has missiles that can aim on their own in AB. Due to how it's launcher works even when damaged in AB, it also confuses people to a point of stupid death. It's so ridiculous, that it actually works even against 9.3 tanks. Enemy is too smart to open himself towards you? Scout them out and laugh, as a squad of Leopards on other end of the map deletes them from the face of the earth for you.
Type 75 SPH - while the gun depression and suspension on this is worth a potato, it can just fire over hills and special proximity fuse shell will get you even behind a wall, even if you are an indirect ATGM god and never show yourself. Might as well J-out, because if you didn't explode on first hit, it will fire again in 10 seconds due to fully automatic autoloader and incinirate your tank for good.
Hated ground vehicles so far
Conqueror MK2 - God, this thing gets lit on fire even by random vehicles blowing up near to it's side, and explodes from random shots to the track. I even got destroyed by Centurion AVRE, that MISSED me. YEAH. I realize that this vehicle is great in RB and all, but why it is so flammable in AB is beyond me.
Caernarvon - People often say it is good. I honestly don't understand what's good in this tank. Even FV4202 was better for me. I guess i have to fight Germans way too often to see it's good side in action. What i see is it being unable to survive anything that would be a threat to your average tank and being unable to penetrate most of tanks that others easily destroy.
Warrior - I love it, but I also hate it. Why BMP-1 cannon shell can hull break warrior even when it hits add-on armor, and cannot hull break striker? Why BMP-2 bullets can instantly destroy armour plates from over 1.5KM and instakill it? I got hit by ATGM from IT-1 and lived somehow, losing all armour on my left side, but cannot survive BMP? How is that??? Also, Soviet light tanks now can survive hull break by being hit into engine or even radiator, but Warrior seems to not be able to do that. Common sence is overrated, I guess.
Na-To - I feel like this tank is a failure on it's BR. Not only it's open topped again (after Ho-Ni III), but it reminds people of flakbus, and so it will trigger every person in 2km range to attack you until this truck is annihilated, which happens a lot faster, because it doesn't have flakbus armour or spacious crew placement. One can even one-shot it with APHE, if they know how. You may also expect to use it in up-tier with APCR, but it's penetration is just not good enough for frontal shot. If to compare it to other vehicles at rank, 90/53 M41M creates such a horror effect to anyone who ever was shot by it, it doesn't even need any protection, not to mention it's much more resistant to damage.
IS-4M - whenever I meet it, I don't live long enough to understand where to shoot it, lol. Appearantly, you just shoot it below turret into that giant triangle, and it either explodes, or you are just screwed.
Merkava Mk.1 (USA) - If you want to drive chemical ammo\light tank user mad - that's your vehicle of choice, as it's packed with fuel tanks and RHA screens. Turret is almost invulnerable to kinetic damage as well. Can be obliterated by APDSFS from the front, APHE to turret neck, or by shots from the side (rear is pretty much invulnerable to chem ammo too).
Relative camera controls for ATGM
Okay, this is very seriously important for any british ATGM main, if you really want to destroy the opposition. If may work for others as well, to some extent. It fixes camera issues in melee range and when camping on steep hills.
You need to set "relative camera angle" for your aiming, by going to control-tank-camera control - "view in battle - ground (Y axis)".
In new menu you need to activate "relative controls" and "keep value for disabled axis", then set buttons for "Increase value", "decrease value", "enable axis" and "reset axis value". For example i set them to NUM 7,9,8,4 respectively. The sensitivity is up to taste, but i took it to the extreme, as it's faster to do.
What it does: you use "decrease" and "increase" value to set a direction for camera (down or up basically), and on press of "activate axis" it detaches your camera from your reticle by a certain angle. You can make your camera look sky-high up, so when you actually aim in front of you, you can now truly aim for enemy, not just randomly fire missiles everywhere, enabling you full melee combat capabilities, allowing you to look behind ridges, while aiming, and fixing the problem on pictures below. Or you can fire upwards without looking at the back of your vehicle (though that's usually fixable by just pressing Z, but something like Type 60 ATM needs this feature.)
When you are done, you use "reset axis value" and "activate axis" to return to normal aiming mode.
It's also possible to do to horizontal axis, allowing to see people behind rocks as you turn missiles there, though it's only good for you in towns and mountains at specific spots.
Now only thing left is finding out if it's possible to ruin semi-auto aiming by triggering manual control by a button somehow. Though i doubt i'ts possible.
Some random images left by wiki moderator to help me remember how to upload pictures:
Category tags for images: [[Category:In-game screenshots]] [[Category:Garage images]] [[Category:Animated files]] [[Category:Ammo racks]] [[Category:Document images]] [[Category:Historical photos]]
Link to upload stuff : http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload .
Link to optics gallery: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Optics
Link to nvd page: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Night_Vision_Devices
Link directly to parsed zooms list: https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=User:U13682523&oldid=34725#List_of_all_tank_sight_magnifications
Link directly to parsed NVD list: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Night_Vision_Devices#List_of_vehicles_with_Night_Vision_Devices
Paranoia and conspiracy check corner
Space for special MG penetration tables/graphs (if ever finished)
Yes i am aware that different rank MG's and minor caliber changes of certain factions should and might be different on different ranks, but i digress for now, since difference seems insignificant to me ingame, as seen in 7.92.
Anyone is welcome to add info on different calibers, or add specific faction calibre (like french 15.00 or whatever)
HT: heavy tanks, HTD: heavy TD, as in Foch, ISU, and so on.
By heavy damage is implied, that it can destroy some module, but doesn't pen entire vehicle. (if ammo doesnt explode in 1 hit, specify that)
By destruction implied, that if it hits you, with it's ROF you are probably screwed.
low caliber SPAA and autocannons included to compare with french coax autocannon and check other abnormal dps stuff (pen*rof), do not add more of those
In case if you don't know if your LVEH can be penned by MG or not, just use armour protection analysis on your vehicle against BMP-2 AP-T belt or M2A2 default belt and then compare it to numbers in table. That will give you the jist of it.
|Caliber||Presumable pen point-blank (against RHA, or whatever number bmp2 "protection analysis" check says)||presumable pen at 100m (against RHA or whatever number bmp2 "protection analysis" check says)||ROF||Who uses:||Tree removal (y/n)||Stone wall removal (y/n)||Damage to external armour||ATGM intercept
|DPS to flat rear of TD (45 mm homogenous armor) (tested mostly on IT1)||DPS/TTK to sloped LVeh (50-65 mm aluminium AA7017)||Dps/TTK to angled sides of Lveh/armored turret (20-30mm~~ aluminium 7039)||TTK to unangled/ unarmored LVeh (15mm in general, aluminium 7017)|
|30mm warrior gun, APDS loadout||110||101||Very low||Warrior||Yes||Yes||ERA, doesn't seem to do much else||Damages engine||Heavy damage, 6 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage, ~2 hits to destroy ammo||Heavy damage|
|~23cal AA only SPAA gun combo||~46||~45||Insane||Non combat SPAA like ZSU-23-4, wirbelwind with no ap ammo and such||yes||Yes||Significant||Damages engine.||appearantly deteriorates even permament armor to 0 in 3 seconds or so, resulting in destruction. RNG/bug/feature?||Destruction||RUN|
|20cal vulcan gun||58||55 (it got buffed i think, because how The 23 mm does less damage??)||~infinity||M163||yes||Yes||It seems to not care.||It shredded Vickers MBT from the front eventually, and it has 60 mm RHA, sooo, yeah.||Instant death due to millions of ricochets all over the smallest weakspots. Hilarious.||RUN||RUN|
|20mm Crusader AA cannons and such||41||~39||Heavy since twin guns..||Most early autocannon tanks and such||yes||Yes||Seems to not damage 5mm plates||Penetrated, despite it being statistically impossible, or Bypasses external armor (5mm)||Unknown||Destruction||Destruction|
|BMP2 30mm autocannon, AP-T load||64||61||medium or insane||Bmp2||Y||Y||instant destruction||Unknown, probably destruction||AP-T seems to not penetrate ~60, for no reason. It seems having high ground may help.||Destruction||Destruction|
|20cal coax cannon||47||supposedly 34 (unverified source)
44 , 31 up to 500m by ingame stats (nerfed lately)
|Heavy||French rank 6, amx-30 (r5) and some top german MBTs||yes||yes||Unknown||Unknown||Can cause Destruction for unknown reason.
No damage to ~55mm of alloy7039, or just doesn't damage heavily sloped armor. (unlikely)
|Destruction, but no AOE damage, so it damages weakspot of LV with 30mm but nothing more so far. At least from french gun.||Destruction, 1 sec max|
|15.0 mm MG||36||34 (ultra nerf down from 45 lol)||unknown||French HT and HTD||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|14.5 mm KPVT||45||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
42 by ingame stats, but seems doubtful. (how da hell it's still so op when french one is nerfed??)
|low to Medium||is7, is10m, soviet HTD rank 5||yes||unknown||Unknown||Unknown||Does nothing to 60+mm, but either 38 or 44mm on warrior's alloy 7039 rear achieved destruction. assumed 50mm of AA7039 seems to hold off.||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction|
|12.7 mm DShK and such||29||seems to be around ~26mm, but sometimes pen more.
27 by ingame stats
|low to Medium||HT and HTD , some MBTs of rank4+,||unknown||unknown||Unknown||None||None||Heavy damage, sets off ammo in 1 hit, can AOE from turret shots.||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|12.7 mm M2HB USA edition||26||25 by ingame stats, but seems to be around 26.||low to Medium||USA on rank2+, half of JPN vehicles on any BR||yes? At least on direct hit on a small tree.||unknown||unknown||None||somehow did damage after 5 sec or fire from M103.
perhaps hit weakspot with ~30mm.
|unknown||Destruction in 1 sec max|
|8.00||10||9 by ingame stats (how even if 7.92 is better?)||???||Italy up to rank 2||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
|7.92||13||less than 13?
12 by ingame stats
|Medium||German tanks before rank 4, their HT and HTD past rank 4||unknown||unknown||ERA only||Unknown||seems to do no damage||Unknown, since nobody tries to use it on selected vehicles||Resistable|
|7.7||10||9 by ingame stats||Low||Japanese rank 1-3||No||No||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||useless|
|7.62||10||less than 13?
9 by ingame stats
|Low to medium, heavy on rank 6||German medium vehicles rank4+, french before rank 6 and most british tanks use something similiar, most USSR mbts||No||No||ERA only||No damage||No damage||Nonexistant/ignorable||seems to be useless even point-blank vs ~13mm aluminium alloy|
|7,50||10||9 by ingame stats||unknown||French at various ranks||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown||unknown|
I gather that SPAA guns penetrate at least 7mm more than ingame tip says, at least for aluminium. And with highter ROF it may cause instakill even on vehicles, that are supposed to be permamently resistant to it, so probably MG does that as well.
Conclusion for armor protection so far:
AP-T (or incindenary armor piercing) ammo in cases of many tanks negates inclination armor modifiers, just like APHE of soviets, which makes it as good as APDS against angled armor, which is extremely unfair (lol). The ones that do not possess this feature act like HVAP - lose penetration power very fast with each degree of angle.
However, IAP seems to have much worse ricochets angle than APDS and such shells, so high ground negates it entirely as long as you have 65mm total. APDS cannot pen much more at this angle either, because it has no angle modifiers, just huge raw numbers.
This kind of explains how the soviets HMG destroy sloped turret of warrior in 1 hit, but sometimes soviet autocannons cannot destroy Striker's hull - even with BMP2 guns for example.
The weirdness is further increased by fact that aluminium alloy has huge penalty to armor (which is not properly displayed in statistics, and goes all ways from 20% to 50%) and "yellow" penetration is actually Random (RNG), which means insane ROF of auto cannons and such can roll "penetration" chance a hundred times per second, which convert 5% chance of pen into guaranteed kill.
External plating often seems to be completely ignored whenever penetration of enemy ammo > armor of plate, or just gets destroyed in 5 hits at it is. Doesn't even have to be angled for this at certain points. Seems to be proved by panther D side (40+5) being penned by Crusader AAmk2. Also most light vehicles have glaring weakspots with 10mm less armor (like this isn't enough already) and even some equivalents of 7.64 can penetrate external shield, if you aim exactly where it hurts.
As in, the protection analysis feature seems to like to ignore external plates for life, so it's safe to assume, that on random occasion bullets can just go through them anyway. They still protect from HESH and single cannon shots though.
High ground seems to help against MG and Autocannon in case of solid permament armor, however if in case of modules, like Striker transmission blocking any MG bullets coming through LFP, the fury of certain guns like "vulcan" will shred it apart just due to sheer ricochet randomness over hundreds hits.
Even if BRs allow different ranks of MGs to be used on you, simplified graph would look kind of like this:
Your vehicle's hull vulnerability to MG in your matchmaking:
I want to do it through Colours if possible.
Black = instant death,
red = only tankable by front, can still destroy your armor or damage fatal weakspots/turret/cupola and cause your death somehow,
orange = Only tankable by front,
yellow = angled sides can tank it,
green = only rear or not-so-obvious weakspot is endangered,
white/blue/idk = no threat.
Instead of faction names could use flags.
Possibly, we will want two of these per vehicle, if it will be known, that high ROF or focused fire of many vehicles even of low cal can delete your vehicle, or simply to show danger with/without weakspots in general (for example warrior wearing ADD-on armor is okay as long as you broadside and they fire on your hull, but they still can try to wreck your turret with HMG, so GG., as for without ADD-on armor... well... rip.) Perhaps i can use lighting icon to symbolize "likely crew incapacitation".
What certain shell types are like in-game (for real)
Section for conspiracy debunking. Basically, you write what shell does in certain mode and how it really works in your experience (not in damage protection analysis).
Other people are welcome to write/correct their opinion, just add the signature near to your statement, so I won't erase it by accident later.
- Kinetic ammo: Damages by hitting enemy vehicle or insides. Can go through objects, and sometimes even solid walls.
AP-I: Ammo for practically all your MG's and base ammo for most autocannons.
AB: High ricochet chance, otherwise penetrates easily and then explodes? (or something) Extremely sloped armour destroys it.
AP (pure): Does not explode after pen and just goes onward, penetrating whatever is in the way. Can penetrate modules until expires. Causes wide armour spalling from entry point. Mostly used by brits (later shifted to high mass sniper APDS) and french (with massive 25kg shots then into APDSFS). SPG caliber pure shells can do scary damage even after hitting heavy armour. The higher the mass of the shell, the more absurd amount of spalling it causes when breaches armour.
AB: The weaker the armour it hits and the higher caliber it is itself, the more spalling it seems to do. For example, if 15 kilogram shell's penetration is two-three times the armour, for example after penning LFP, then it manages to penetrate and obliterate transmission and whatever it is behind, resulting in tank annihilation. (ex: lorraine 40t VS Ho-Ri production, if lorraine penetrates LFP of Ho-Ri, it is just a toast no matter what due to ammo racks and crew being destroyed, but mantlet shot is much less dangerous due to lesser spall.)
AP(CBC): Basically same thing, but has normalization buff (IE if you screw up the shot it may reduce impact angle by a bit).
AP(C): Same thing, but generally these shells are so awfully low quality, they barely penetrate even with a buff. Depends on situation, though.
AP(CBC) (soviet and certain italian tanks): Tend to have BS 10-40 degree normalization angle, which makes it lolpen anything, until it ricochet or fails. Main issue is that they have slightly less penetration than the others, sometimes leading to hilarious incidents, as RB Germans using KV-IB (Germany) against soviets and basically achieving god mode, as they cannot penetrate their own tanks.
AP(HE): Less spall damage, but has a bomb which ticks off if hits something of ~15mm thick depending on fuse type (effective armour, not just 15mm of something). In interface looks like orange explosion around the shell. Fuse length can be abused to make shell explode outside of tank, but only a few tanks can do that.
1.91: All the APHE fuse sensitivity stats were changed, and i mean all of them. 90% of them got reduced to 14mm, on early tanks to 9mm, on 120+mm guns some shells were increased from 15 mm to 19 mm, but developers added kinetic 120 mm hullbreak to anything that could potentially not detonate that, so it does not even matter anymore. All APHE tables now need update. TL:DR - Now APHE is somehow more op than even HE against light tanks and EVEN milk trucks. Riveting.
AB: Explodes a moment later, doing insane damage. Seems to be weak to "internal armour plates" such as RHA lists and such. After penetration, if fuse wasn't triggered, can penetrate anything in the interior as if it doesn't care. Once fuse is activated, it can ricochet back inside off even 5mm construction steel (as often can be seen to happen with light tanks) Shrapnel can be stopped by engine or fuel tank, but only if explodes into it.
Shrapnel: Very obscure low-rank ammunition of Soviets. Has very low penetration, but acts as even stronger APHE.
APCR: High penetration for lesser damage than pure AP. The spalling is more focused and copies shell trajectory.
AB: Bad against angled armour, but from long distance it may as well just fall flat on it and pen anyway, which is heavily helped by AB aim assist. SMH I don't see the 'weaker damage' part, as it sometimes one-shots heavy tanks. Though, it's certainly less than APHE due to focused AoE.
1.91: Seems to do same damage as APDS now, but I never experienced "shell shattered" effect with it yet.
Low caliber HVAP: Replacement for APCR/APDS on certain vehicles, including, for example, BMP-2 .
AB: Extreme intolerance of angled armour due to ricochets, but otherwise penetrates anything it can.
High caliber HVAP: Replacement for some Pure AP shells (usually british). Fly faster than normal.
APDS: High speed, High accuracy, High pen, no normalization. Practically does only damage in line it went in and out. Because of no normalization part, still skillful to use. Sometimes not much better than certain AP shells penetration-wise for same reason .
AB: Does less damage the more armour it had to penetrate with main "bullet". At top power high caliber APDS can spall and obliterate weaker vehicles to some extent. At bottom power level might need 5 shots to set off 1 shell in ammo rack. If shell hit tracks or optics and then hit hull, which it had not enough energy to penetrate, it may say "shell shattered". Yes, that can happen, as easily seen with warrior. So it's better to fire at weakspots or from favorable angle, not just aim at ammo rack/crew in general.
APDSFS: Nearly no falloff, insane range, does BOTH spall and direct damage, near infinite normalization value. Can penetrate ANYTHING, as in, can lolpen multiple tanks(and all and any of their modules), a house (which normally looks unpennable) and few walls, until finally stopped. The absurdity of penetration power depends on it's quality (from early 360 pen apdsfs to ridiculous 780 penetration in endgame) and hidden stats (like material of shell or w/e).
It's easier to explain why and when it's OP by example - When you play on map with destructible houses (like American Desert is now), it's godlike - you can fire at scouting mark through 3 streets of houses and oneshot your enemy, and that pesky light tank, that was 50m away from it, just because it was on same line. On other maps, where not every house is destructible, Finland c cap for example, it's just good because it doesn't require you to aim.
AB: Outright hull breaks weak armour.
- Chemicals (BOMBS): Have fuses that explode, if hit ANYTHING. Can cause hullbreak.
Does specifically different type of damage, and so special armour types negate it better than kinetic ammo. General examples: ERA (special plates on top of vehicle which dampen the hit a bit by exploding back into it or by other means, usually one time use), NERA (permanent composite armour, usually visible with X-ray), spaced armour (Random trash on top of tank, "side skirts" and double-layered armour).
RB: Generally have AOE, even if not supposed to, which is affected by "explosive mass". At least looks like it.
HE: Explodes on hit. 360 degree AoE. As such, sometimes used to penetrate top/roof armour, which generally have laughable 20-40 mm lists covering them, compared to 100-300 mm. Can also be shot below the tank, at MG on top of commander's hatch, or even pushed into turret's ring, depending on enemy tank's oversights.
AB: Some vehicles are rigged to instantly explode if hit by it, even if it didn't penetrate. Hilarious.
HE (PF) - Proximity fused HE. Will explode after it flies X meters away from you and Y meters away from anything massive.
AB: Has same properties as normal HE. Annihilates sneaky tanks even behind hills.
HEFS: Used by certain soviet top-rank tanks. Flies faster and at less obscure angle.
RB: If it doesn't outright terminate enemy tank, it's usually powerful enough to wreck it's gun and whatever else is caught in blast.
HESH: Forces all affected armour, which is weaker than shell's pen to spall into tank. Like APDS, it's better if armour is MUCH weaker than the shell, but still exists. Does more pen, the more angled surface was (until it just ricochets). In any mode sometimes hitting track insides with it obliterates vehicles, but in RB its more likely. Little spaced armour shields on front of vehicle (like M163 has), random junk on the hull and side skirts negate it due to low amount of armour being transformed into "projectiles" and main armour plate being unaffected by blast. An item must "exist" for the game to protect from HESH. Despite that, being actually hit by HESH to unprotected side near to ammo rack often ends in fiery explosion, so it's not to be ignored as a possibility. It also has capability of ruining super-angled turrets, if shot exactly to the weakspot.
RB: Trapshots become more reliable.
HEAT: Flies towards target at a very particular angle, then blasts everything in front of impact zone like APDS. Least likely to hullbreak and least AoE. Due to high angle of attack, usually its wiser to look at 30 and 60 degree penetration, not 0 degree one.
HEATFS: Same as above, but flies more directly and faster.
HEAT usually have line projectile pattern, similar to APDS, but, unlike one, it can be blocked or derailed.
ATGM: Usually, if nothing else is specified, it's same as above, but you guide it yourself. Has enough power to oneshot tank, if pens (will very likely pen and almost impossible to ricochet if driven into tank on purpose).
AB: Kind of damage tank it hit, generally going forward from impact point. Can be blocked by fuel tanks and engines, radiators, armour lists, ETC, if they are huge enough. As example, Swingfire, which has virtually no armour, can tank all the ATGM's from BMP-1 with it's fuel tank and then wreck it for being a nuisance. Or not, because BMP also can catch ATGM with it's engine and radiators, preventing hull break.
As of 1.91: changes to module damage model cause HEAT to sometimes overpenetrate and go forward where it earlier was stopped or just exploded into tank. Another hotfix of 1.91: HEAT and ATGM specifically can now penetrate fuel tanks (what the?) and destroy tanks which use them as a shield against chemical ammo. The effect still has its limit as Merkava MK1 still can tank ATGM if you hit the very front of it (IE 3 modules is enough to stop weak ATGM entirely after all), however direct hits to ammo racks are now fatal.
RB: Is often a subject to change, as in one patch it's possible to explode yourself, and is impossible in another. Might or might not violently explode, wrecking light tanks, even your own tank, if allowed to by current patch.
Tandem ATGM: Some missiles have Tandem charge. It may be specifically said so, or normal ATGM may just act like one (unknown why). Essentially a double ATGM. Penetration is written out for both packages. Works as such: Missile hits first obstacle and tries to destroy it, then second warhead is fired. if obstacle was destroyed it is ignored. If not, second bomb usually tries to penetrate that again. If there is nothing to hit for second bomb, it just flies back and forth and explodes on exit point.
Tandem charge missiles (specifically noted to be one) were noted to be able to have funny ricochets off NERA. As in, it is possible to hit NERA of Abrams tank at an angle, then second charge "backs off" into tank hull and explode backwards, annihilating tank crew. Rather strange.
HE ATGM: HE that flies directly where you point it to. Has less penetration than "normal" HE and reported to have less shrapnel as well.
Proximity HE ATGM: Same as HE ATGM, but can be used as anti-air weapon or to attack hidden opponents (depends on fuse type).
SAM: Surface-to-air, Anti-air missiles. Most usually comparable to HE ATGM, but have additional coding attached to them, like sniper scope imitating missile drag if it's SPAA only weapon, or missile transforming from nuclear HE ATGM into extremely fast contact explosives, or being weird HEAT ATGM which becomes proximity HE missile when flies 100m away from the ground...
HESAM: Causes wide explosion, trying to hit planes around. When next to ground usually just works like HEATGM. Any tank blown up by it becomes a fireball for a good minute.
"death darts" aka firestreak: after dispersing does punctual HE damage like HE-T. Can hull break some tanks, but it more acts like 105mm HE. Spirals to keep course due to insane speed.
Mistral:A-A missile on SPAA?
Wanted to create this subsection to check if anything changes with new patch/sub patch, as every time light tanks begin to refuse to explode to a single ATGM for weirdest of reasons, then next patch gaijin adds tank which doesn't explode while sporting 15mm aluminium armour, then it again explodes to hull hit, but not engine hit, even to 150+ mm cannon, ETC.
Wouldn't need it, if Update 1.89 "Imperial Navy" didn't drop yet another uneven nerf. IDK, maybe they were just too bored to list every light tank at 8.0 BR, but it doesn't make me feel any better, that OBJ 906 and BMP 2 weren't mentioned.
I highly suggest that moral questions like "is this fair that BMP-2 does not have same hull break as BMP-1 while being literally the same tank" not being summoned here. But mentions of Hullbreaks on certain tanks with patch number next to it would be nice.
- Types of hull break
Ammunition type hull break: Basically, vehicle can be rigged to explode if hit by certain ammunition, usually chemicals. Sturmpanzer II instantly explodes if HE hits it, even on non-pen. You may argue if it's also tied to caliber, but it's irrelevant, really - APDSFS also causes it to happen more often than other KIN shells, though that would be strange.
Calibre based hull break: Basically, vehicle is rigged to explode if certain caliber shell hits it. Rule is often matched with certain hit region (IE, hull, engine, ETC) and ammunition type (may need lesser caliber for CHEM or KIN). Example: M10 often explode if hit by high enough caliber KIN shell into engine. Or Striker is now mentioned to have hull break of 105 mm CHEM or 120 mm KIN, without any specifications of "Where to".
- Regions affecting hull break
The hull itself - it either can or cannot be ruined. I didn't find evidence of different sides of armour having different hull break property/ caliber requirement, the only exception was warrior and it's ERA shield somehow magically stopping even ATGM (though it's so powerful it was usually meaningless.)
Engine - Usually acts as a stopping power for shells, as of late 7.3+ light tanks are not hull broken if HEAT/ATGM hits them straight after hull penetration, but sometimes it is a weakspot (mostly for WW2 tanks with KIN shells).
Cannon - Normally, it's a deterrent for any types of shells, but in case of flakbus if big enough shell hits the gun directly, whole truck just explodes to pieces, while even penning entire truck all the way with through with KE does no real damage.
Radiator - Lately stops light tank hull break if chemical warhead hits it after pen (mostly tested on HEAT-ATGM)
Transmission - Can stop hull break, but you will still likely get obliterated by raw damage
Track/suspension wheel - Strange hullbreak spot added by 1.89. Basically if enemy HE of 75+mm hits track front or certain suspension wheels (usually the first and last two), you just die
- Tanks, which are immune to hull break for some reason
Tank - invulnerability properties - patch
- Vulnerable tanks
|Name||Hull break||Engine break/protection||Cannon/launcher break/protection||Radiator break/protection||Exceptions?||patch?|
|Warrior||75 mm HE, 105 mm HESH, 120 mm Any chem, NO KIN||Protection HEAT/HESH||No protection||N/A||ERA shields (if explosion hits in between them, you are dead regardless)||1.89|
|BMP 2||105 mm CHE||Protection||No protection||Protection||None?||1.87|
|Striker||105 mm any CHE on track, 120 mm KE, Artillery||Transmission protection, but mostly only HEAT||Protection||N/A||No||1.89|
|Name||Calibre and type||Protection/Break||Protection/Break||Protection/Break||yes/no (specify)||patch Number|
In case if you want to write exactly here:
@Bangerland, here are a couple of options for formatting images here on the wiki. You can check out options on Google for GIFs (although, I don't think the formatting is much different for them). You want to make sure when uploading images, that you don't upload copyrighted images (without permission). Feel free to load images you take from the game, public domain images or copyrighted images which you have received permission and annotate in the information section of the image posted.
Here is the link to upload images and GIFs: http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload
Does someone maybe know a way to use the marketplace thing without double authentication? Wanted to exchange some junk to get decals for fun, but this thing just wont let go... IDK why every company just assumes i have 2k$ phone, or have time to set up emulator, or even care about mine account's safety. It's really frustrating to me, because decal even costs like 0.13 points of whatever the currency is, and i could get 4 easily by dumping SU-85a, which i wasn't going to ever use anyway. If that's oficially and even unoficially not possible, at the very least some recommendation of easy to setup emulator would be nice. (bluestacks gave me headache previous time i tried to use it.) --U42773747 (talk) 21:51, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't have a recommendation. I was able to set up double authentication, but the market still would not let me purchase anything so I didn't pursue it any further. I have used Bluestacks and it seemed to be a resource hog and worked most of the time, but recently I have switched to MEmu (https://www.memuplay.com/) and that one seems to run a bit better and is fairly easy to get going, maybe that will help with the emulator portion. -- AN_TRN_26 (talk) 01:30, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Another question - is there any way to learn exact magnification value on tank/gun? X-ray and stat-cards seem to not tell optics zoom on tanks. Would never tell ST-A1 is a decent tank, but OH GOD THIS OPTIC HAS AT LEAST X12 MAGNIFICATION. I mean... Many rank 6-7 tanks wish they had optics this good, you can even see tanks from over 1km in detail with this. If not , maybe we should include optics as a detail on tank pages if possible? --U42773747 (talk) 17:16, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I don't play tanks very often, so I don't know, Inceptor57 or one of the other mods may have more info on that. If there is enough information to write up on the optics (if there are really that many different ones/zoom levels) then it's possible a small section may be worth is. You can always work on mocking one up on your page and we can see where it goes. AN_TRN_26 (talk) 18:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- Problem is, only few tanks display optics info. Like... uh. I only found it on newer tanks of rank 6 and leopard line, as example, you hover over one of 89-s numerous optics, on one of them you see "optics X2-X8 zoom". The warrior just says "Optics X8", challenger "optics X4-10". But even in rank 6 i look at many tanks and see nothing (like KPz-70 data is omitted), and i have failed to find ones at rank 5 and below, except for Leopard I. I suspect those had to be filled by developers, but weren't in case of at least 90% of vehicles. And so, i don't have any solid information, only the subjective zoom impact info from comparing one to another. Well, because even default (minimal) gunner zoom is always different too, i have no clue what X1 even looks like. And some scopes seem to diffirentiate even by X0.3s, as Leopard A1A1 suggests, which is mind boggling.
- The difference is about like this (actual magnification extremely subjective, but the proportion i judged by "compass" on top of screen, which changes the distance between degrees with zoom magnification, so its still sort of true): Rank 1 tank has only X2 zoom as default (i suppose as things look closer than from 3PV) and X4 as second one (on press of Z), then you have rank 4 tanks with mostly X2-4 as default and about X4-5 as secondary, but you do get expections on tanks like M26 "D.C.Ariete" with X5 and X6. And so is with the many of the medium tanks, with X4 you barely see tanks at 1km range. Then you have sth like Object 120, which has X4 as default and about X8 as secondary , or Ru 251 with ~X7 and ~X8 , then you have something like German SPG Panzer IV/70(A) or rank 7 Challenger 2 which is supposed to be "the ultimate hulldown tank", and these ones have ~X4-6 by default and about X10 as secondary zoom. There is also Leopard A1A1 (L/44) which has like X10.3 as default and X12 as secondary zoom. And finally you have something really rare like Leopard 2K(and few other from those lineup), or rank 4 ST-A1 with about X8 as default and X16+ on secondary zoom (and probably the entire japanese tank line after that one too, as their rank 6 premium has similiar scope). The damn default zoom is as good as than the last one of top tier "sniper tanks". And what is worse , only few tanks have this insane optic. And the difficulty of aiming is different too, as the marks on scope (which say the shell drop distance) also become bigger and have quite the distance from eachother on that scope, even with APDSFS, so you don't have to stare at your screen so hard. You know, i often questioned Leopard 1 driver's sanity, as they constantly go for cross-map snipes and hit me in SPG from 2km away on the move, when i barely even see them in sniper scope, but when you know their optics are like 4-8 times better than yours, it makes at least some sense.
- I doubt a whole subsection would be needed to be created, because as much as i look, commander's binoculars seem to have same ~X6 increment on every vehicle, and cannot be zoomed, so you can't even make a big meaningfull table called "optics" to be filled like "gunners optics, Default, zoomed", "Commander optics, default, zoom". But i feel like adding lil table with optics of gunner to "main armament' subsection would be great. Here is an example: ("which ones" is there just in case Multi-turreted tanks have different zoom levels on different guns, though i failed to find one such example yet.)
|Which ones||Default||Maximum (zoomed in)|
|Main Gun optics||X4.3||X12|
- Even if that is too much, we have this default table explaining the guidance and stabilizer on the gun, and its fire rate (though without mentioning of autoloader, which also impacts things sometimes, like sudden knockout of loader not stopping/resetting the reload). And there are 2 empty slots after reload speed, which i always use in SPAA pages to say "rearm time", as those take forever and are on separate timers. We could appropriate those 2 slots to be like optics-> minimal zoom, maximal zoom instead? But problem is, table looks like it's supposed to be linked to gun page, not vehicle itself, or something. --U42773747 (talk) 20:03, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I like the looks of that table, something like that could be doable. Might be something to find a static marker/target in the trial yard and snap a screenshot of the target through the scope at each of its different settings and have those on the page for people to visually compare to, they don't have to be huge images, people can click on them (or it can be a composite of the images so one image has all magnifications side by side, that might be useful too. Might be good to have Inceptor57 weigh in on this, he is more of a tank guy than I am. AN_TRN_26 (talk) 20:50, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- So, you want to add like a line into instructions, for people to compare or something like that? In a way of "If you can, check magnification of gunner's scope at This page and apply screenshots that match minimal and maximum zoom of this vehicle's optics here."? I feel like composite image might be hard to use, especially with wiki engine here. It will probably be better to have a lot of images you can scroll with those arrows. Like, make a page called "optics magnifications" and make a gallery of them, being commented like "X2" or "X4" "X8", "X8.8" (damn french RC car!), "X10", "X10,3" (damn leopard!) and such. For those vehicles, that have specified zoom, I could use enemy tank from test drive in AB mode, to use as a mark. Problem is, though, the vehicles may be different all the time for different factions/ranks. With AB rangefinder i always can make sure enemy stands at exactly 1km range, but ofcourse having only one same target for this would be better, to not get confused with different target sizes, but mine resources are kind of limited to what brits (and maybe japs) have, and the premium german test drives. Having a tree or building as a mark instead might be kind of... Counterintuitive? I have one ruined tank hull in mind (even with a tree in a way to have some comparsion) and can make sure it's 1km away via AB rangefinder, but for other people to drive that far and double check it, that would take forever. Anyhow, should i write to Inceptor57 about it directly or they might notice our discussion at their own time? --U42773747 (talk) 21:33, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
- I think it is possible to data-mine the tank optics zoom. In a tank BLK file if you divide 74 by the "zoomOutFov" or "zoomInFov" field that gives you the default and zoomed in magnification (it has a load of decimal points after it but when you round it to 1 d.p it is nearly always accurate, sometimes you will be out by 0.1 x though). Not sure the significance of 74, presumably it is the FoV of a 1x zoom or something. I worked this out by taking the standard zoom of the Challenger 2 (stated as x 4 in game), then multiplying it by the "zoomOutFov" field in the challenger 2 blk file to get 74. If I then pick other tanks in game which have a zoom specified and divide 74 by the "zoomOutFov" & "zoomInFoV" fields in their files the number you get nearly always rounds to what the zoom level was stated at in game. --Flame2512 (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
- That's very useful. You mean the .BLK similiar to those that appear, when you access "skin customization"? I'm afraid i'd have to own the vehicle to get these still. Or am i mistaken and i can make them out of other files? Kind of curious what kind of optics Type 90 has. --U42773747 (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
- The type of BLK you get by data-mining (extracting the game files). Its the way flaps limits, optimal velocities, compressor settings and stuff like that are found out for aircraft pages.
How to Sneak Up on Enemy Tanks in Arcade (Edited by AN_TRN_26)
Arcade Battle (AB) has game mechanics which provide a huge benefit to casual players - most notable, an ability to see enemy tanks through vegetation by seeing their "marks" or nameplate and vehicle type. "Aim-assist" is another huge help, which shows where the shells land up to 1 km away and instant rangefinder hints if the vehicle is even further away.
Due to this, many budding (and even more experienced) tankers may deem it impossible to initiate a surprise flank attack while playing Arcade mode. While this mindset is mostly true for the open plain maps (limited cover options), there are still several ways to sneak up on enemy tanks or appear to hit them seemingly out of nowhere. The key is in understanding the game mechanics and using them to your advantage.
Tank vision in Arcade mode (know thy enemy's location)
General vision rules
The ability of your or the enemy tank to spot each other has to do with the crew skill "keen vision." The higher amount of keen vision a crew has, the further away they are able to initially spot an enemy vehicle by the eye. While this ability is critical in realistic battles (where some of AB's abilities are not available), it almost becomes irrelevant in arcade battle, unless you are using very specific tanks due to the more relaxed spotting mechanics.
What one really needs to know, is how far away from and through what enemy tank cam make you visibly "marked", as it makes your presence obvious to everyone on their screen or minimap, once spotted. Another important ability needed for crews to effectively receive enemy position from teammates is the radio communication.
How you spot others (or are spotted yourself)
Firstly, your tank is marked when the enemy vehicle's commander (cupola) or gunner have a direct vision on your tank and you are within their "keen vision" skill range. When using binoculars or sniper aim, the vision power is tripled, however, this comes at a cost because their viewable area is now extremely narrow which will make it difficult to see an enemy flanking them. While light tanks may tend to be weaker in armour amount, they get an impressive 30% bonus vision from a modification exclusive to them.
The default keen vision ranges start at about 563 m (615 yds) stock and end around about 1,200 m (1,330 yds) for a spaded normal tank, however, bumped up to 1,600 m (1,749 yds) for vehicles classified as scouts. It is important to note that only a limited amount of players have "ace" crews in their tanks, so their keen vision abilities will be less than maximal most of the times. In the skill stats, it's called "line of sight detection". Do note, that if your tank is reasonably far away, the enemy will only be able to see your tank's class (although, if needed, they can just look up your tank's name on the scoreboard by pressing the default TAB key).
If the enemy's tank crew's keen vision is maxed out, they can mark you even through a wall or a building, but only when at a very close range of about 20-40 m. In skill stats, this benefit is called "absolute identification".
While this may sound difficult, if not impossible, to sneak up on the enemy vehicle, you will only get marked if player actually looks at your tank. As counter-intuitive as it may sound, the closer you are to them, the harder it is for them to notice you accidentally as typically they will be focused on what is in front of them, trying to either get to a vantage point or "scoping" out enemy vehicles to prey upon.
|PRO TIP: It isn't necessary to turn the turret to look for enemies. By holding the "look around" key (by default, "c") you can check your surroundings without exposing your vehicle's weak spots.|
If one enemy vehicle happens to spot your vehicle, other enemy vehicles will not necessarily have your vehicle show up on their minimap (same thing when team-mates spot an enemy vehicle.) The ability of vehicles to communicate to their team-mates the location of an enemy vehicle comes with the crew skill of "radio communication". The higher the crew skill in radio communication the earlier they will get a warning about incoming enemy vehicle, if anyone saw it.
It is important to note that trees and other frangible vegetation do not prevent a vehicle from being spotted, however, buildings, tall stone walls, rocks and terrain will inhibit line-of-sight and prevent a vehicle from being spotted.
Do note, when looking for cover to hide behind, it is advisable to avoid sitting at corners of buildings or on hill-tops, it is best to find obstacles which will completely cover your vehicle for line-of-sight from others. How far away is optimal? At the very least, your tank shouldn't be visible by eye (even through trees), so that people with no keen vision do not see you like in this example:
Ace crew skill Keen Vision notes
- If an enemy has maximum keen vision, ace, and maybe even scout lenses, there are two things to note:
- They can see an enemy even behind a corner of a cover, with leverage of about 5-10 meters. This means they can mark you even through a building block at times. They also can actually see above walls they are hiding behind. While this requires insanely high keen vision, this is still possible. In the case of certain missile tanks, they can even attack, while being completely invisible.
- While maxed crew keen vision seems god-like, objects can still serve as visual protection. When counter-flanking, you should try to stick to your original plan and preserve as much of your cover as possible while moving around:
Within keen vision range - avoiding getting marked
Sometimes it is unavoidable to be found within the keen vision range of an enemy vehicle or for someone to have snuck up on you. To prevent being marked on the enemy maps, vehicles equipped with smoke screens can "pop" smoke and disappear or obscure the enemy vehicles view.
There are two "stages" in which the smokescreen works, "deploy" and "set in". Deployed smoke prevents the enemy from targeting you directly with aim assist, but doesn't hide your vehicle's movements. After a certain time, "set in" will obscure sight completely within a certain range for a certain amount of time, usually about 20 seconds. Smokes do not prevent your vehicle from being marked if the enemy tank is next to yours, just like buildings, so avoid driving close to the enemy.
Generally, in AB it will take about 5 seconds for smokes to set in after landing and start the marking prevention. Once deployed, wait a short bit before driving in or out to avoid being an easy target. At rank VI hull mounted default smoke screens are replaced with aerosol canisters which set in two seconds, but unless you are retreating you still have to wait. If you want to know how long it will take for the smoke will set in, look for "smoke screening" stat in module or ammunition characteristics for your vehicle's details.
|Group launched smokes set in different time span, due to the time when they hit the ground. Sometimes, they malfunction and do not fire, but you generally can try to use them again later.|
|Enemy can still see you normally. Even if your hull pokes out of the smoke only for a bit and you still don't get marked, they can still manually target it. Avoid driving near to the edge of the smoke area.|
- Other important factors:
- Secondly, if keen vision is high enough with an enemy vehicle and if you are in front of their driver (front of the hull), your tank might get highlighted on the minimap. It also makes tanks visible by eye as in "realistic battle" line-of-movement detection rules at great range.
- Lastly, a light tank can "scout" your position, making you indefinitely visible across entire map even through smoke screens and walls, as you could see on the previous example. The smoke and objects will still prevent the aim assist from working.
What does it mean for the flanker?
What to consider as a flanker
- If you are playing at a low battle rating or against people with very little keen vision (crews skills) in general, you only have to be about 700-800 m away from an enemy to still be unnoticed, unless they specifically look in your direction with binoculars or the sniper scope. If you are standing about 1.5 km away (edges of the map), you will be invisible to most of the enemy players and even if not, they still have to look directly at you with binoculars or sniper scope.
- At this point, you will want to attack when nobody is looking at you, meaning you need to attack not the vehicles at a capture point itself, but rather the enemy around that capture point. The logic behind this is those enemy vehicles tend to expect an enemy attack here from the front and not from a flank. Plan your routine with that in mind to include your travel route, ambush site and retreat route. Even at rank V it's possible to get behind people without them noticing, as long as you don't get in their way - they most likely will focus on their tunnel-vision.
- Early on, you need to avoid overly open spots and utilise terrain which has solid obstacles obscuring line-of-sight. At rank V many people start levelling keen vision and there are a lot of dedicated snipers who will attempt to pick off unwitting targets from across the map. On open maps like "single cap Mozdok," you can forget about relying on conventional stealth. On cluttered maps, you want to avoid long "corridors" and to block enemy vision utilising buildings, while moving as close to cover and away from corners, as possible.
- If you have maxed out keen vision while flanking the enemy, you can attack or scout enemy through walls and over obstacles on some maps. This way you can either observe the enemy movements to better plan an ambush or interception or try to use special weapons or tactics to attack them from where you are.
- Sitting and waiting in a covered spot is sometimes the better option, let the enemy come to you instead of running into them.
- Light tanks are the bane of those making a stealthy approach. Ironically, because of that they also give you the greatest offensive "stealth" option of all by seeing enemy vehicles early on and the ability to plan routes around them.
Radio communication and why it matters
One of the most overlooked crew skills for AB tankers is the "Radio Communication" skill. Why is this a must-have skill for flanker in arcade battles? As teammates come into contact with enemy vehicles and mark them, you get an opportunity to see them on minimap as well. The higher is your radio communication skill, the further away you can see the enemy, which your teammates spotted, on your minimap. The higher the radio communication skill a crew has, the earlier you can know about enemy approaching you, improving your advantage to either avoid, flank or capture unmanned capture points. So, even though your vehicle may be unable to see anything around you, due to rough terrain or other circumstances, having a high radio communication skill will allow you to get heads up from teammates in the 250-500 m radius, by receiving your target's location.
As such, there is a two-fold benefit to radio communications, the first is that this skill directly affects flanking and stealth attacks, because when an enemy is spotted then they can be easily avoided by you, as your teammates are warning you of their presence via minimap. Secondly, it also works the other way around supporting your "main push" with helping them to know what is going on, as you attack their opponents from the side.
What is less known, however, is that whenever your team has aircraft in the sky, you can see everything. Which means, if you drive in between capture points or in the middle of the map while having maxed out radio communication, you basically have satellite support on the battlefield.
Having this advanced knowledge will allow you to judge and predict enemy movements, judge where they are looking to (generally in the direction they are moving to) and what they are doing (attempted flank, waypoint capture, sniping...etc...), eventually stalking them down and eliminating them. All of this helps you and your teammates to survive longer while being deep within the enemy territory.
Flanking tactics for different types of tanks
General combat tactics
Choosing a flanking tank
The most common tanks which players will be up against on the battlefield will be medium tanks.
While the medium tank is a very broad term, generally this defines that they have an average speed (around 40 km/h), average cannon (which is moderately effective), average armour and potentially a special quirk (modification or benefit limited to this vehicle) or two. All too often, many of the medium tanks feel more like a light tank with a big gun. Typically during a match, you will face at least three such tanks during your flank attempts before enemy heavy tanks or tank destroyers arrive and it is your job to eliminate this resistance before the big guns arrive.
As such, when picking out your flanker, you need to find a tank which is particularly good at destroying medium tanks. The properties such a perfect tank might include:
- Autoloader or multiple combat-capable weapons (heavy machine guns included, perfect against dangerous light SPG, which often accompany them)
- APHE ammunition or reliable HEAT counterpart as comparable preferred ammunition round
- Above an average speed of 50+ km/h. (Should be faster than most Soviet medium tanks of the rank, at the very least)
- Frontal armour can survive Anti-air tank or light tank fire just in case you get intercepted
- If you prefer move-and-shoot tactics, look for a tank with cannon stabiliser
- Remember the non-ammunition options, as certain tanks ram enemy tanks better - it can be useful to pull their tank (and guns) up onto you, rendering them unable to fight and repair, or to forcefully push them onto something to make them look down, so their hull is less angled and becomes vulnerable. (That may backfire, though, as they still can fire at you)
Keep in mind, that even using spaded fast-autoloader APHE tank with a maxed out crew, or even using contraption with 5-6 HEAT guns at once is not going to automatically provide a victory to you. Some enemies will actually drive tanks which counter yours, and with poor aim will survive even seemingly fatal shot. Pay attention to what you are using and against whom. Most importantly, practice your fast aim, instead of just relying on aim assist for everything.
Early game flank
After choosing your flanking tank of choice, start a battle.
Your first priority will be at the start of the battle to get behind the capture point, specifically at a point where enemy tanks would position to start fighting your troops (generally around cap point). Remember, that while manoeuvring into position make sure to avoid alerting their team of your presence too early. Here it is key to use less obvious approaches such as a road which nobody uses, concealed river grounds, or a path which is concealed by building or mountain. Use structures and terrain to your advantage.
It is fine to drive out in the open as long as you are not visible to the enemy team. Use radio communication to see where enemy snipers are entrenched, learn typical enemy behaviour on certain maps and plan your pathing and flanking strike with all of that in mind.
Secondly, look at your map to guess where the enemy team is at. You can see which direction your team is pushing, therefore roughly guess where enemy team push will take place. If your team is near to the cap point, surely their team is as well setting up to prevent the capture. You do not really care about what their flankers and fast tanks are doing at this point, only concentrate on and fight those if they are in your way to the position you are headed to.
|British medium and heavy tanks are generally extremely slow at most ranks, so you can't make a suggestion by looking at them. They are also often capable snipers, so if an enemy chieftain is late to a battle, it may actually be there just in time to shoot at your tank and remove you as a threat. Mind your positioning and try to remain concealed towards tanks which can snipe from long distances.|
As soon as tanks converge on capture point or when they start the actual battle for capture point, make your flanking move.
The usual infiltration plan
|In this example we will look at a spacious map with high altitude ranges, so Type 60 ATM was chosen as a flawed, but a fitting vehicle for the job. It is slow, so the player decides to flank B, as medium tanks cannot intercept flank on that road in time, most of the times.|
1) The first priority is to get behind the enemy tanks en route to point B while trying to not to be exposed to other enemy tanks which are not otherwise engaged with something else (such as those moving to/from a spawn point or pursuing your teammates).
In the current example, Type 60 ATM is manoeuvring towards a heavily protected high ground position next to the enemy flanking line, which has high defence potential. This position is generally useless for the team approaching from the south because it is too out in the open to sniper fire from the blue side, however, this is a perfect position for a north team flanker. One of the benefits is that this is a place which few people ever look at and is especially hard to notice and attack this spot from below (from the south base). The only disadvantage to this position for the flanker is that he has to keep an eye on the minimap and destroy every light tank they notice which is in range as it is very easy to get sniped from enemy tanks which may be situated at the capture point C.
To get to such an advantageous spot as this, one has to temporarily put themselves in danger for a moment while manoeuvring into position. Luckly here we did not meet any enemy flankers en route, however, if we did, the Type 60 ATM would easily dispatch them because it is not limited by terrain elevations.
2) Attack the enemy. Here you will want to annihilate the most observant enemy players first - you do not want anyone to ask questions of sort "why is that guy firing to the left and not to the front?", especially if they have scouting capability. If you have the scouting ability on your vehicle, start marking enemy vehicles which are panicking and trying to retreat. Once marked, your teammates will most likely start destroying them the very moment they show up on their screen.
3) After taking down several tanks at this flanking position, look around you and decide your next move:
A) Disengage by returning to the capture point through any enemy vehicles in order to reunite with your team. If needed ram and push the last opponent out of cover to secure the site.
B) Go berserk and try to either escape towards next capture point or cut off and attack enemy reinforcements. Sometimes bold and bizarre tactics which do not make any sense can confuse the enemy and allow you to take advantage of a situation where you had none before.
While later on, it becomes hard to flank enemy as a medium tank or tank destroyer, however, you still can do some mind games in urban and mountain environments, using corridors, unpopular streets and openings to suddenly attack enemy:
Ultimately, the most devious of players can get behind enemy lines at a spot nobody ever looks at, sniping anyone who tries to go towards capture points, although that is often called out as borderline spawn camping. Often enough, it's right next to the enemy team spawn, because it is unthinkable for people to get sniped from their own base.
Scouting based flank attacks
Light tanks are generally considered weaker than medium tanks until around battle rating 7.3 and thus are a rare sight, Scouting allows these tanks to perform some extremely mean "Stealthy" moves.
|This tactic requires buildings to be penetrable. Not every map allows this, and certain buildings will be impenetrable anyway. Only armour piercing ammunition can do this, as chemical ammunition explodes on impact with anything. You can do this even without scouting, but it's generally very hard to pull off.|
The tactic is about the same as an early rush of medium tank or default tank destroyer, but with a twist - while approaching frontline, do not hide and instead scout 3 enemy tanks, which are going towards penetrable buildings, then, when they least expect it, snipe the sides of the tank through a wall. Doing so they will not be able to see you even if you are near to them and while you are attacking them.
Only scouts can allow you to fire precisely at enemy tanks through any amount of walls and buildings, but you can use very high keen vision to look around corners to spot enemy this way, then try to aim at them.
In some cases, you can punish the enemy, who only has strong frontal armour and is trying to run away from you behind a building. In this case, they eventually have to turn their weak side armour towards the wall of a building, allowing you to just fire at it through their "cover".
As an example of fighting through the wall with and without a scout, we will use south-east flank on B point of Alaska. Our tank destroyer got stuck near to B point because the enemy team had way too many flankers to get through them and to do regular flank:
Since our goal is to flank the enemy and to destroy as many tanks as we can, not to stall enemy flankers, we need to either find a way of destroying our obstacle fast or simply go around it. While tanks were exchanging meaningless shots, friendly scout tank marks enemy OBJ-120 near to B point. Of course, this Ho-RI, as a flanker, should not pass such an opportunity! It fires APHE at T54 track, instantly breaking it to buy some time and gets into position next to skyscrapers:
Eventually, the enemy destroyed our friendly scout tank and started moving into B. Since every single tank on the left side got sniped through the wall, we only have to pay attention to what happens on the right side.
To check on our situation, and to reduce the number of enemy tanks, we call in a bomber. Apparently, a heavy tank is pushing our line and got into hull-down position next to us. This would be a very problematic encounter, but we can use our relatively high keen vision to aim at them through the wall around the corner:
Since we do not have scout friend anymore, we cannot fire at an enemy through walls precisely anymore, but we still have to do something with the rest of enemy tanks. The enemy team is heavily cut down now, and we see on our minimap, that there are only a few opponents left, and they are all around right side, so we take a risk and flank them from the left:
At this point, tank destroyer starts running out of ammunition, and ultimately gets destroyed by enemy team reinforcement, as even enemy SPAA is interested in "destroying it immediately". A single tank destroyer with minor help of a scout took out 8 enemy strongest tanks and assisted at destroying one more, which is a success.
A list of some maps, which may allow such a tactical move:
|Not all maps may be mentioned, as game patches may change destructibility of buildings. Also, for some reason, bridges are impenetrable on any maps.|
|Map||Can penetrate buildings? (yes, no, only some)||Exceptions|
|American Desert||Yes||Main building on C cap. With certain buildings, foundations are impenetrable.|
|Alaska||Yes||Some buildings are unpenetrable, mostly red brick houses to the west of the map. Some of them can still be destroyed. Destructible skyscrapers cannot be shot through.|
|Volokolamsk||Yes||Church, which is present on some map variants, is impenetrable.|
|Korea (38th parallel)||Yes||The radio towers may stop shells.|
|Japan||Some||Only wooden buildings and constructions are penetrable (and destructible).|
|Berlin||Some||Certain damaged buildings around C collapse when shot, and so, they do not shield tanks from AP. Rest of them are very likely impenetrable.|
|Second Battle of El Alamein||Some||It seems, that all buildings on B point, except for the main (central) one are penetrable.|
|Wallonia||No||There is a multitude of openings in between buildings everywhere, which you can use to a similar effect.|
|Hurtgen forest||No||A lot of buildings have holes in the roof, so some ATGM carriers technically can fire through them.|
|This tactic may or may not work in presence of enemy scout tanks. (Depends if they are foolish enough to not scout you)|
Ultimate "stealth" attack - Scout 2 enemy tanks and deploy smoke right on top or in front of them. After five (two with rank VI hull mounted smoke) seconds pass, they will not be able to see you, while you see them clearly. Generally, this move spooks anyone but boldest soviet players and they will just look at the smokescreen, confused. Because of this, you don't even have to worry about instant retaliation.
Select target (with middle mouse button) to see their tank's profile. Find out their side, and snipe it. Move around after each shot to avoid retaliatory fire. If enemy tank rushes into the smoke to find and destroy you, sidestep it and fire at it's back, but never drive closer than 50 meters to it.
After 2 kills or about 16 seconds (Generally, 2 light tank ATGM reloads at rank V are about as long, so after firing second ATGM you should run away, as you won't be able to reload again.) get away from the fight before smoke has dissipated - do not become greedy unless there is only one enemy left and you are committed to destroying them at any cost.
|Light tank in this example has a powerful weapon and so it will be given a task worthy of it. Do not feel discouraged if you can't do the same in a battle rating 3.3 light tank, as they can only attack heavier tanks from the side. Look for easier targets at lower battle ratings, fight one on one, or work with your allies to dismantle your opponents.)|
As an example, a desperate situation on the Berlin map will be used. C point is completely overtaken by enemy heavy tank push, and our Warrior is the last thing standing in between them and spawn. Every single one of these tanks has machine guns capable of instantly destroying it on proper hit, and cannon shots will likely cause a hull break:
The situation looks hopeless, and it seems that light tank can't even take someone down with itself. Unfortunately for the enemy, heavy tanks have very long reload time, so they can't just shoot at the smokescreen randomly. Warrior drops smoke screen, drives out of cover and launches ATGM at the scouted enemy heavy tank, while simultaneously dropping artillery strike on enemy scout tank:
This way of attacking is extremely powerful, not even because your targets are unable to protect themselves, no matter what they are using, but because you can destroy anyone while being looked at by their entire team, just like on the screenshot. Be aware, that this tactic is very "stealthy" and "subtle", and very experienced players will definitely try to shoot back at you if you fail to destroy them.
Sniper based tactics
While maxed out keen vision allows seeing anyone across half of the map in Arcade battle (or even entire map for ace scouts), it is still possible to exploit special sniper positions to out-snipe those, who do have it. Those, who don't have it, and pay little attention, have an even lesser chance of avoiding such moves in time.
|Most tanks before rank III can't snipe from afar due to lack of accuracy or low velocity of their shells, so use specialized tanks early on (usually tank destroyers) or the ones with sniper ammunition. Usually shells with muzzle velocity around 856 m/s or above can be used for sniping (Early on it is mostly Pure AP or APCR). Some tanks require upgrades "Fire adjustment" and "Elevation gear" to hit anything past 500 m even at rank V. Shells with muzzle velocity of ~502 do not land where the scope and rangefinder MG shows past 1 km range and should only be aimed from experience past that range.|
Special sniper positions
While sniping itself is not really a "stealth flank", snipers live in their own dimension, where they can still flank other snipers and battlefield as a whole. Use special sniper spots which are not as obvious on the map at a first glance - some of them are even located in the middle of a battlefield.
These spots are:
- Away from the main battle line, which means enemy snipers will not see you on accident via binoculars or sniper scope
- Far enough or have enough cover for the enemy not to see you accidentally with 3rd person view (3PV)
- Probably require the use of ATGM, APDS or another high velocity round, as basic chemical warheads have a tendency to not fly where you want
1) Standing on the edge of the map is not enough - find a spot, which is away from the frontline horizontally, to greatly reduce the number of people spotting you accidentally and then wanting to shoot at you.
One would argue, that this isn't going to help, but remember, that radio communication only marks you if you are near to enemy tanks. This is basically the only way you can do "stealth" on this Mozdok single cap variant without using smoke screens.
Some maps do not have a solid frontline like this. In which case, you can go for another option:
2) Use high ground to snipe or hide, if necessary.
Sniper scope vision is three times greater than the third-person view, so, at low ranks, you can snipe medium tanks like this while they are moving towards the middle of the map. They simply cannot see you until it's too late and snipers rarely ever look in that direction.
ATGM allows for safer firing over covers and use of super-high ground, but demasks such cover instantly, making your presence obvious. Use Kinetic ammunition if you want to remain unnoticed for a longer period of time. But remember, even this method won't help if a high-level scout tank will look your way and mark you with "scouting".
If this is not acceptable, there is an even better option:
3) Hide in plain sight using caves instead of overused "out of bounds" spot:
While not every map has covers like this, you should definitely look for one. Not only the enemy team cannot see you if you are careful, but it is also generally possible to cover all three capture points at once from such a spot!
ATGM can often serve as a flanker weapon of choice, but there are differences between horizontal launchers and vertical ones. While vertical ATGM is harder to master, than the normal one, and may require camera manipulation to use effectively, it allows for some absurd flanking and surprise attacks.
Stand behind houses, rocks and mountain ranges and fire at an enemy, who cannot even see you, using normal vision mechanics from Realistic battles, or extremely high keen vision, to attack the enemy while avoiding getting spotted. Retreat to even less likely hiding spot to confuse the enemy even more.
|ATGM always makes a lot of noise, and these are not an exception, so you are only really concealed until you fire the first shot. However, it may take forever for the enemy to figure out where exactly you are if you are careful.|
Some ambush options made easier by added verticality:
1) Hide even further behind hills to become invisible and try to snipe the enemy. Alternatively, hide behind objects nearby to enemy and curve missiles into them, as they leave their cover.
In case if your team got severely crippled, or you just cannot fight the enemy team directly, you can always visibly pretend to retreat, but in reality go towards low ground or another hideout just outside of capture points, to make enemy feel better about themselves, so they drop their guard and move in to capture it. That's when you get them:
2) If simply staying in some sneaky place is not good enough for you or you are quickly bored of conventional sniping, consider instead ruining the enemy's day as a counter-sniper, counter-flanker and counter-camper by being super aggressive. A lot of it involves being stealthy until the very last moment until you let it all loose.
Your main focus is to sneak into a good firing position, smoke up your sides or retreat path to prevent a counterattack and then unleash on an unsuspecting enemy. While this tactic is very risky, it works wonders against enemy campers and heavy tanks. High risk can equal high reward:
It is clear that ATGM can make enemy question their safety and sanity just by firing out of unexpected places, but with the aggressive approach, you can do much more. Instead of attacking enemy main push directly, you can demolish enemy sniper team the same way, by using their normally superior sniper position against themselves. Quite often, this is only possible for vertical ATGM vehicles.
After destroying enemy resistance, you can take over their sniping spot, to snipe yourself or to do even more damage to those, who will try to take it back:
If you don't want to just take over usual enemy sniper spot, you can go even deeper inside of the enemy territory and exploit even more bizarre firing positions. The most obvious example of using enemy team territory is firing over the high ground on maps with narrow passages. Firing over mountains is not easy, but on most maps, the deeper you are in the enemy territory, the easier it is to fire onto the enemy party. It is almost impossible to predict this kind of attack before it is already too late.