Difference between revisions of "Achilles (65 Rg.)"

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{{Specs-Card|code=uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles_norfolk_yeomanry}}
 
{{Specs-Card|code=uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles_norfolk_yeomanry}}
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{{About
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| about = premium British tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
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| usage = standard version
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| link = Achilles
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}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
<!--''In the description, the first part needs to be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert the screenshot of the vehicle. If the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, they will immediately understand what kind of vehicle it is talking about.''-->
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<!--''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.''-->
 
[[File:GarageImage Achilles65th.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
 
[[File:GarageImage Achilles65th.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
 
{{break}}
 
{{break}}
The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium Rank III British tank destroyer with a battle rating of 4.0. It was introduced in [[Update_1.53_"Firestorm"|Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and is one of the first British tanks introduced in the game. It is an Achilles tank destroyer with insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".
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The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened to '''{{specs|pseudonym}}''', full name '''17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)''') is a premium Rank III British tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.53 "Firestorm"]] and is one of the first British tanks introduced in the game. It is an Achilles tank destroyer with insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".
  
The [[Achilles|Achilles]] is based on the American [[M10 GMC|M10]], but carries [[Ordnance QF 17-pounder (76 mm)|17-pounder]] as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. For a Battle Rating 4.0, the Achilles has plenty of firepower, especially once the Mk.8 APCBC shot module is unlocked, which is more effective against the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] sloped armour. The 17-pdr literally cuts through enemy [[Pz.III M|Panzer III]] and [[Pz.IV H|IV]] (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Russian tanks, the first shot should be always to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.  
+
The [[Achilles|Achilles]] is based on the American [[M10 GMC|M10]], but carries [[Ordnance QF 17-pounder (76 mm)|17-pounder]] as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. For a Battle Rating 4.0, the Achilles has plenty of firepower, especially once the Mk.8 APCBC shot module is unlocked, which is more effective against the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] sloped armour. The 17-pdr cuts through enemy [[Pz.III M|Panzer III]] and [[Pz.IV H|IV]] (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Russian tanks, the first shot should always be to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from a distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.  
  
Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect the Achilles from some low calibre shots but the vast majority of the enemies will be able to easily destroy the Achilles. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man powered) are not good for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.  
+
Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect the Achilles from some low calibre shots, but the vast majority of the enemies will be able to destroy the Achilles easily. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man-powered) are not suitable for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.  
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
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=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
<!--''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and maneuverability as well as the maximum speed forward and backward.''-->
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<!--''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.''-->
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
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! 2000m
 
! 2000m
 
|-
 
|-
| Shot Mk.6 || AP || 170 || 168 || 154 || 139 || 125 || 113  
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| Shot Mk.6 || AP || 171 || 168 || 155 || 139 || 126 || 113  
 
|-
 
|-
 
| Shell Mk.1 || HE || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9  
 
| Shell Mk.1 || HE || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9 || 9  
 
|-
 
|-
| Shot Mk.4 || APC || 170 || 168 || 154 || 139 || 125 || 113  
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| Shot Mk.4 || APC || 171 || 168 || 155 || 139 || 126 || 113  
 
|-
 
|-
| Shot Mk.8 || APCBC || 189 || 186 || 174 || 154 || 139 || 126  
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| Shot Mk.8 || APCBC || 190 || 187 || 172 || 155 || 140 || 126  
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
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===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
 
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
[[File:Ammoracks_Achilles.png|right|thumbnail|[[Ammo racks|Ammo rack]] of the Achilles|300px]]
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[[File:Ammoracks_Achilles.png|right|thumbnail|300px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo rack]] of the Achilles.]]
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
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Turret empty: 45&nbsp;''(+5)''  
 
Turret empty: 45&nbsp;''(+5)''  
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===== Optics =====
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''Explain how the optic's status can affect the tank's gameplay in any unique or meaningful way. A comparison to rival tanks of the rank is welcome.''
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''If you are having problems with it, refer to the [[Optics|optics gallery]] page for examples.''
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="50%"
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! colspan="3" | {{PAGENAME}} [[Optics]]
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|-
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! Which ones
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! Default magnification
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! Maximum magnification
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|-
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! Main Gun optics
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| x1.85 || x3.5 <!--Sometimes the actual value may not be known and here it should be referenced if the optic values are an estimate such as with an "X8.3 (estimated)" notation or something else that way the user will then be able to look to the comparable optics section and see a referenced optic which will have actual in-game data to back up the claim.-->
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|-
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! Comparable optics
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| colspan="2;" style="text-align:center;" | [[M10 GMC]]
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|-
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|}
  
 
=== Machine guns ===
 
=== Machine guns ===
<!--''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft, but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''-->
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<!--''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''-->
 
{{main|Browning M2HB (12.7 mm)}}
 
{{main|Browning M2HB (12.7 mm)}}
  
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== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
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<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
The Achilles is best used for sniping and for shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks!
 
  
Keep in mind the low fire rate (compared to other 17-pdr AFVs). Once the Achilles has destroyed (or damaged) the enemy the best thing to do is to relocate. Don't stay in the same spot for too long: the Achilles has weak armour and open top. Artillery barrages will cripple the Achilles or the crew.
+
The Achilles is best used for sniping and shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks!
  
Another thing to think about is the turret traverse. Yes... It is **really** slow. Therefore, some changes need to be made in the typical play style. If the Achilles need to target an enemy quickly, do not rely on the turret. Instead, traverse the entire tank so that the hull is facing the enemy head on, similar to turretless, casemate style tank destroyers. To avoid situations like this, stay way back, avoiding urban areas and other areas where the Achilles will be flanked easily.
+
Keep in mind the low fire rate (compared to other 17-pdr AFVs). Once the Achilles has destroyed (or damaged) the enemy the best thing to do is to relocate. Don't stay in the same spot for too long: the Achilles has weak armour and an open top. Artillery barrages will cripple the Achilles or the crew.
 +
 
 +
Another thing to think about is the turret traverse. Yes... It is **really** slow. Therefore, some changes need to be made in the typical play style. If the Achilles need to target an enemy quickly, do not rely on the turret. Instead, traverse the entire tank so that the hull is facing the enemy head-on, similar to turretless, casemate style tank destroyers. To avoid situations like this, stay way back, avoiding urban areas and other areas where the Achilles will be flanked easily.
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - they have a substitution in the form of softer "inadequate", "effective".''-->
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<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".''-->
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
 
* Good gun (17-pounder!)
 
* Good gun (17-pounder!)
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* .50 cal Heavy machine gun on top to fight lightly armoured tanks and aircraft
 
* .50 cal Heavy machine gun on top to fight lightly armoured tanks and aircraft
 
* Sloped armour makes incoming rounds more likely to ricochet
 
* Sloped armour makes incoming rounds more likely to ricochet
* Spare tracks that provided some limited protection on the front and on the rear section of the side armour.
+
* Spare tracks that provided some limited protection on the front and the rear section of the side armour.
 
* Good gun depression
 
* Good gun depression
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
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== History ==
 
== History ==
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><ref></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article.''-->
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<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== Encyclopedia Info ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).''-->
 +
 
 
===Development===
 
===Development===
The [[M10 GMC|M10 tank destroyer]] was developed in 1942 to fulfill the anti-tank doctrine established by the US military. The doctrine, creating the tank destroyer force, was established with the objective to stop German blitzkrieg tactics by attacking the tanks. Unlike the other armoured fighting vehicles in the theater, the tank destroyers were made to be placed in reserves to counter any breach in the front lines by taking out the enemy with ambushes. This role led to the desire for a fast vehicle with a powerful gun, armour was not a concern due to the emphasis in speed. The design ended up taking a turret design developed from the [[M6A1|M6A1 Heavy Tank]] and the body from the [[M4A2| M4A2 Sherman]], this with the 3-inch 1918 gun, provided the backbone of the American tank destroyer force in much of World War II. In total, 6,706 M10s and its variants were produced between September of 1942 to 1943 of the same month.  
+
The [[M10 GMC|M10 tank destroyer]] was developed in 1942 to fulfil the anti-tank doctrine established by the US military. The doctrine, creating the tank destroyer force, was established with the objective to stop German blitzkrieg tactics by attacking the tanks. Unlike the other armoured fighting vehicles in the theatre, the tank destroyers were made to be placed in reserves to counter any breach in the front lines by taking out the enemy with ambushes. This role led to the desire for a fast vehicle with a powerful gun; armour was not a concern due to the emphasis in speed. The design ended up taking a turret design developed from the [[M6A1|M6A1 Heavy Tank]] and the body from the [[M4A2| M4A2 Sherman]], this with the 3-inch 1918 gun, provided the backbone of the American tank destroyer force in much of World War II. In total, 6,706 M10s and its variants were produced between September of 1942 to 1943 of the same month.  
  
 
===British Use===
 
===British Use===
These M10s were given out to America’s allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the '''Achilles''' and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (''Achillies I/II'') and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (''Achillies Ic / IIc''). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the ''17pdr M10'', or ''17pdr SP M10'', or even the ''"Firefly"'', despite that name being used for a different design.  
+
These M10s were given out to America’s allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the '''Achilles''' and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (''Achilles I/II'') and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (''Achillies Ic / IIc''). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the ''17pdr M10'', or ''17pdr SP M10'', or even the ''"Firefly"'', despite that name being used for a different design.  
  
The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that a conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] and the [[Panther D|Panthers]]. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 meters away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued a M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achillies the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the [[Sherman Firefly|Sherman Firefly]].
+
The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] and the [[Panther D|Panthers]]. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 meters away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion is done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available, and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued an M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achilles the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the [[Sherman Firefly|Sherman Firefly]].
  
 
The Achilles were issued out as part of the Royal Artillery in armoured divisions in anti-tank regiments. One of such regiments was the '''65th Anti-Tank Regiment''' assigned to the 7th Armoured division during 1942 and onward until the end of the war.
 
The Achilles were issued out as part of the Royal Artillery in armoured divisions in anti-tank regiments. One of such regiments was the '''65th Anti-Tank Regiment''' assigned to the 7th Armoured division during 1942 and onward until the end of the war.
  
 
===Combat Usage===
 
===Combat Usage===
The British doctrine with the Achilles differed from the Americans who saw it as a reserve tank destroyer, the British viewed it as a mobile anti-tank gun, thus the Achilles served in a role akin to the [[StuG III G|StuG III]] in German service, moving the 17-pounder into position to take a shot on incoming German [[Tiger E|Tiger]] or [[Panther G|Panther]] tanks. These Achilles were used more with Churchill tank units rather than the medium tanks due to the lack of 17-pounder equipped on [[Churchill Mk III|Churchills]] while the medium tanks have the Firefly available for use. Disadvantages with the M10 Achilles design were carried over from the original, the slow turret traverse speed, high profile, and open-top turret made it a rather harder vehicle to use than a regular tank, but it still had it advantages and was still suitable for the role it had.  
+
The British doctrine with the Achilles differed from the Americans who saw it as a reserve tank destroyer. The British viewed the Achilles as a mobile anti-tank gun, thus the Achilles served in a role akin to the [[StuG III G|StuG III]] in German service, moving the 17-pounder into position to take a shot on incoming German [[Tiger E|Tiger]] or [[Panther G|Panther]] tanks. These Achilles were used more with Churchill tank units rather than the medium tanks due to the lack of 17-pounder equipped on [[Churchill Mk III|Churchills]] while the medium tanks have the Firefly available for use. Disadvantages with the M10 Achilles design were carried over from the original, the slow turret traverse speed, high profile, and open-top turret made it a rather harder vehicle to use than a regular tank, but it still had its advantages and was still suitable for the role it had.  
  
 
The Achilles were deployed on D-Day onward in artillery forces in anti-tank regiments in armoured divisions. A typical anti-tank regiment would have four batteries, two with towed 17-pounders, one equipped with 17-pounder Achilles, and another with regular M10s with the 3-inch gun (though replaced with another Achilles unit once more were available). A notable event with the Achilles was during Operation Charnwood, where Achilles in the 62nd Anti-Tank Regiment fought off a German counterattack comprising of [[Pz.IV H|Panzer IVs]] and [[Panther G|Panthers]] from the 12th Panzer Regiment were routed by the Achilles 17-pounder fires, destroying about 13 German tanks with the loss of four Achilles knocked out and four more damaged.
 
The Achilles were deployed on D-Day onward in artillery forces in anti-tank regiments in armoured divisions. A typical anti-tank regiment would have four batteries, two with towed 17-pounders, one equipped with 17-pounder Achilles, and another with regular M10s with the 3-inch gun (though replaced with another Achilles unit once more were available). A notable event with the Achilles was during Operation Charnwood, where Achilles in the 62nd Anti-Tank Regiment fought off a German counterattack comprising of [[Pz.IV H|Panzer IVs]] and [[Panther G|Panthers]] from the 12th Panzer Regiment were routed by the Achilles 17-pounder fires, destroying about 13 German tanks with the loss of four Achilles knocked out and four more damaged.
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
''An excellent addition to the article will be video guides, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''
+
<!--''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.''-->
 +
Skin and Camouflages for the [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicleCountry=britain&vehicleType=tank&vehicleClass=tank_destroyer&vehicle=uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles_norfolk_yeomanry Achilles (65 Rg.)] in Warthunder Live.
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
 
<!--''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 
<!--''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
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* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''-->
''ETC.''-->
 
 
* [[Achilles]] - Normal tech tree version.
 
* [[Achilles]] - Normal tech tree version.
  
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<!--''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
<!--''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 +
* ''encyclopedia page on the tank;''
 
* ''other literature.''-->
 
* ''other literature.''-->
[https://warthunder.com/en/devblog/current/827/ [Devblog<nowiki>]</nowiki> Pioneering British Tanks in War Thunder with developer's answers]<br/>
+
* [https://warthunder.com/en/devblog/current/827/ [Devblog<nowiki>]</nowiki> Pioneering British Tanks in War Thunder with developer's answers]<br/>
 +
* [[Wikipedia:17pdr_SP_Achilles|[Wikipedia<nowiki>]</nowiki> 17pdr SP Achilles]]
  
 
{{Britain tank destroyers}}
 
{{Britain tank destroyers}}
 
{{Britain premium ground vehicles}}
 
{{Britain premium ground vehicles}}

Revision as of 11:47, 27 November 2019

RANK 4 FRANCE
Somua SM PACK
Achilles (65 Rg.)
uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles_norfolk_yeomanry.png
Achilles (65 Rg.)
Show in game
This page is about the premium British tank destroyer Achilles (65 Rg.). For standard version, see Achilles.

Description

GarageImage Achilles (65 Rg.).jpg


The 17pdr. M10 (65th Anti-Tank Regt) (shortened to Achilles (65 Rg.), full name 17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles (65th Anti-Tank Regiment)) is a premium Rank III British tank destroyer with a battle rating of 3.7 (AB) and 3.3 (RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.53 "Firestorm" and is one of the first British tanks introduced in the game. It is an Achilles tank destroyer with insignia of 7th Armored Division, 65th Anti-Tank Regiment "Norfolk Yeomanry".

The Achilles is based on the American M10, but carries 17-pounder as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR, the Achilles won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. For a Battle Rating 4.0, the Achilles has plenty of firepower, especially once the Mk.8 APCBC shot module is unlocked, which is more effective against the T-34 sloped armour. The 17-pdr cuts through enemy Panzer III and IV (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Russian tanks, the first shot should always be to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from a distance but keep in mind that the damage caused is unreliable (sometimes two or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding, but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry the player, the gun, and the team to where it needs to go.

Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect the Achilles from some low calibre shots, but the vast majority of the enemies will be able to destroy the Achilles easily. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man-powered) are not suitable for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Transmission area)
  • Structural steel (Counterweight)
Armour Front Sides Rear Roof
Hull 38.1 mm (55°) Front glacis
50.8 mm (7-55°) Transmission area
19.05 mm (38°) Top hull
25.4 mm Bottom hull
19.05 (28-33°) Top Hull
25.4 mm (7-52°) Bottom hull
19.05 mm Front
9.5 mm Rear
Turret 25.4 mm (66-88°) Turret front
57.15 mm (0-47°) Gun mantlet
25.4 mm (22-46°) 25.4 mm (1-29°) Turret rear
50 mm (0-50°) Counterweight
N/A

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick while the bogies are 10 mm thick.
  • Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick.
  • Hull rear sides are protected by attached grousers that gives 20 mm of extra armour.
  • Tracks placed on the front transmission area provide 30 mm extra armour.

Mobility

Mobility characteristic
Weight (tons) Add-on Armor
weight (tons)
Max speed (km/h)
29.6 0.3 45 (AB)
41 (RB/SB)
Engine power (horsepower)
Mode Stock Upgraded
Arcade 587 717
Realistic/Simulator 363 410
Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Mode Stock Upgraded
Arcade 19.66 24.22
Realistic/Simulator 12.26 13.85

Armaments

Main armament

76 mm OQF 17-pounder
Capacity Vertical
guidance
Horizontal
guidance
Stabilizer
50 -10°/+30° ±180° N/A
Turret rotation speed (°/s)
Mode Stock Upgraded Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
Arcade 3.96 5.48 __.__ __.__ 7.84
Realistic 2.68 3.15 __.__ __.__ 4.50
Reloading rate (seconds)
Stock Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
8.71 __.__ __.__ 6.7
Ammunition
Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Penetration in mm @ 0° Angle of Attack
10m 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
Shot Mk.6 AP 171 168 155 139 126 113
Shell Mk.1 HE 9 9 9 9 9 9
Shot Mk.4 APC 171 168 155 139 126 113
Shot Mk.8 APCBC 190 187 172 155 140 126
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Velocity
in m/s
Projectile
Mass in kg
Fuse delay

in m:

Fuse sensitivity

in mm:

Explosive Mass in g
(TNT equivalent):
Normalization At 30°
from horizontal:
Ricochet:
0% 50% 100%
Shot Mk.6 AP 883 7.71 N/A N/A N/A -1° 47° 60° 65°
Shell Mk.1 HE 883 6.98 0.4 0.5 580 +0° 79° 80° 81°
Shot Mk.4 APC 883 7.71 N/A N/A N/A -1° 48° 63° 71°
Shot Mk.8 APCBC 883 7.71 N/A N/A N/A +4° 48° 63° 71°
Smoke characteristic
Ammunition Velocity
in m/s
Projectile
Mass in kg
Screen radius
in m
Screen time
in s
Screen hold time
in s:
Explosive Mass in g
(TNT equivalent):
17pdr Shell SS Mk.1 754 8.44 13 5 20 50
Ammo racks
Ammo rack of the Achilles.
Full
ammo
1st
rack empty
2nd
rack empty
3rd
rack empty
4th
rack empty
5th
rack empty
6th
rack empty
Visual
discrepancy
50 48 (+2) 45 (+5) 34 (+16) 23 (+27) 12 (+38) (+49) Yes

Turret empty: 45 (+5)

Optics

Explain how the optic's status can affect the tank's gameplay in any unique or meaningful way. A comparison to rival tanks of the rank is welcome.

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Achilles (65 Rg.) Optics
Which ones Default magnification Maximum magnification
Main Gun optics x1.85 x3.5
Comparable optics M10 GMC

Machine guns

12.7 mm M2HB
Pintle mount
Capacity (Belt capacity) Fire rate
(shots/minute)
Vertical
guidance
Horizontal
guidance
300 (200) 577 -10°/+70° ±60°

Usage in battles

The Achilles is best used for sniping and shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks!

Keep in mind the low fire rate (compared to other 17-pdr AFVs). Once the Achilles has destroyed (or damaged) the enemy the best thing to do is to relocate. Don't stay in the same spot for too long: the Achilles has weak armour and an open top. Artillery barrages will cripple the Achilles or the crew.

Another thing to think about is the turret traverse. Yes... It is **really** slow. Therefore, some changes need to be made in the typical play style. If the Achilles need to target an enemy quickly, do not rely on the turret. Instead, traverse the entire tank so that the hull is facing the enemy head-on, similar to turretless, casemate style tank destroyers. To avoid situations like this, stay way back, avoiding urban areas and other areas where the Achilles will be flanked easily.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Good gun (17-pounder!)
  • High level of penetration. Will often pass through the front of lighter vehicles and leave through the back.
  • Premium vehicle - instant access to the best shell (Shot Mk.8)
  • Good speed
  • 5 crew members
  • .50 cal Heavy machine gun on top to fight lightly armoured tanks and aircraft
  • Sloped armour makes incoming rounds more likely to ricochet
  • Spare tracks that provided some limited protection on the front and the rear section of the side armour.
  • Good gun depression

Cons:

  • Armour is rather thin
  • Big ammo racks
  • Open top turret makes it vulnerable to artillery and strafing planes
  • Very slow turret traverse
  • Lack of explosive filler for AP shells
  • Handling is poor on some rough terrain before mobility modifications are researched
  • Reverse speed is bad
  • Low ammo reserve for Commander's machine gun (300 rds total)

History

Development

The M10 tank destroyer was developed in 1942 to fulfil the anti-tank doctrine established by the US military. The doctrine, creating the tank destroyer force, was established with the objective to stop German blitzkrieg tactics by attacking the tanks. Unlike the other armoured fighting vehicles in the theatre, the tank destroyers were made to be placed in reserves to counter any breach in the front lines by taking out the enemy with ambushes. This role led to the desire for a fast vehicle with a powerful gun; armour was not a concern due to the emphasis in speed. The design ended up taking a turret design developed from the M6A1 Heavy Tank and the body from the M4A2 Sherman, this with the 3-inch 1918 gun, provided the backbone of the American tank destroyer force in much of World War II. In total, 6,706 M10s and its variants were produced between September of 1942 to 1943 of the same month.

British Use

These M10s were given out to America’s allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the Achilles and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (Achilles I/II) and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (Achillies Ic / IIc). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the 17pdr M10, or 17pdr SP M10, or even the "Firefly", despite that name being used for a different design.

The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the Tiger I and the Panthers. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 meters away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion is done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available, and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued an M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achilles the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the Sherman Firefly.

The Achilles were issued out as part of the Royal Artillery in armoured divisions in anti-tank regiments. One of such regiments was the 65th Anti-Tank Regiment assigned to the 7th Armoured division during 1942 and onward until the end of the war.

Combat Usage

The British doctrine with the Achilles differed from the Americans who saw it as a reserve tank destroyer. The British viewed the Achilles as a mobile anti-tank gun, thus the Achilles served in a role akin to the StuG III in German service, moving the 17-pounder into position to take a shot on incoming German Tiger or Panther tanks. These Achilles were used more with Churchill tank units rather than the medium tanks due to the lack of 17-pounder equipped on Churchills while the medium tanks have the Firefly available for use. Disadvantages with the M10 Achilles design were carried over from the original, the slow turret traverse speed, high profile, and open-top turret made it a rather harder vehicle to use than a regular tank, but it still had its advantages and was still suitable for the role it had.

The Achilles were deployed on D-Day onward in artillery forces in anti-tank regiments in armoured divisions. A typical anti-tank regiment would have four batteries, two with towed 17-pounders, one equipped with 17-pounder Achilles, and another with regular M10s with the 3-inch gun (though replaced with another Achilles unit once more were available). A notable event with the Achilles was during Operation Charnwood, where Achilles in the 62nd Anti-Tank Regiment fought off a German counterattack comprising of Panzer IVs and Panthers from the 12th Panzer Regiment were routed by the Achilles 17-pounder fires, destroying about 13 German tanks with the loss of four Achilles knocked out and four more damaged.

Media

Skin and Camouflages for the Achilles (65 Rg.) in Warthunder Live.

See also

External links


Britain tank destroyers
Infantry tank derivatives  Archer · Gun Carrier (3-in)
Light tank derivatives  Alecto I
M10 Achilles  Achilles · Achilles (65 Rg.)
Centurion derivatives  FV4005 · Conway
ATGM  Swingfire · Striker
Other  Tortoise · ▄M109A1
Canada  QF 3.7 Ram · ADATS (M113)
South Africa  G6 · ZT3A2

Britain premium ground vehicles
Light tanks  A13 Mk I (3rd R.T.R.) · A13 Mk II 1939 · AEC Mk II · Crusader "The Saint" · Rooikat 105
Medium tanks  A.C.I · Grant I · Cromwell V (RP-3) · Sherman IC "Trzyniec" · A.C.IV · Comet I "Iron Duke IV"
  Centurion Mk.2 · ▄Strv 81 (RB 52) · Centurion Mk.5 AVRE · Centurion Mk.5/1 · ▄Sho't Kal Dalet · Centurion Action X
  Vijayanta · Khalid · Challenger DS · Challenger 2 OES
Heavy tanks  Independent · Matilda Hedgehog · Excelsior · TOG II · Churchill Crocodile · Black Prince
Tank destroyers  Alecto I · Achilles (65 Rg.) · QF 3.7 Ram