Difference between revisions of "SU-85M"

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{{Specs-Card|code=ussr_su_85m}}
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{{About
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| about = Soviet tank destroyer '''{{PAGENAME}}'''
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| other
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| usage-1 = the other version
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| link-1 = SU-85
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| usage-2 = the open-topped SPG
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| link-2 = SU-85A
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}}
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{{Specs-Card
 +
|code=ussr_su_85m
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|images={{Specs-Card-Image|GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|ArtImage_{{PAGENAME}}.png}}
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}}
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
<!--''In the description, the first part needs to be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert the screenshot of the vehicle. If the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, they will immediately understand what kind of vehicle it is talking about.''-->
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<!-- ''In the description, the first part should be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert a screenshot of the vehicle, so that if the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, he will immediately understand what kind of vehicle the article is talking about.'' -->
[[File:GarageImage_SU-85M.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
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The '''SU-85M''' was an improved design (rather than a separate variant) of the [[SU-85]] self-propelled gun used by the Soviets during World War II. It has slightly thicker frontal armour and a better commander cupola. There were 315 units built in total.
{{break}}
 
The '''{{specs|name}}''' is a rank {{specs|rank}} Soviet tank destroyer {{Battle-rating}}. It was introduced in during the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41. The SU-85M is basically the beefed up version of the regular [[SU-85]] with an increased frontal armour thickness from 45 mm into 75 mm that can save it from shots that would've been lethal for the SU-85. It also has an APCR shell modification for increased lethality against enemy tanks.
 
  
When taking the vehicle out the first time, two things will be instantly noticeable: The armour and slow movement of the gun. The former being welcome and the latter being very painful. With the right ammunition between AP and the APCR, the SU-85M is a very good vehicle in the role of a sniper and ambusher. Weary tanks will pop out of corners, unhappy to see a SU-85M locked and loaded. The SU-85M can also be used as a long range sniper due to the 85 mm's good velocity and damage, which could destroy vehicles in just one shot. Range also comes at an advantage as the 75 mm of front sloped armour at a distance of more than 1,500 m is impervious to most tanks of its BR.
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Introduced in the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41, the SU-85M should be played as a long-range sniper due to its powerful gun. Its lack of a turret makes it unsuitable for close-quarters combat, even with the thickness of its frontal armour increased compared to SU-85. Moreover, the protection gain is negligible due to the advent of more advanced enemies. It is therefore not a good idea to be close to the front lines. To increase the effectiveness of armour, players should stay behind the main fighting zone and eliminate enemy targets from far away, making the best use of long-distance and low silhouettes to enhance survivability.
  
 
== General info ==
 
== General info ==
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
 
=== Survivability and armour ===
<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''
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{{Specs-Tank-Armour}}
 +
<!-- ''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat? If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.'' -->
 +
The SU-85M sees a great improvement on the upper front plate than the preceding SU-85, from 45 mm to 75 mm. Thanks to this the SU-85M can now frontally resist medium-penetrating tanks such as the [[Jagdpanzer 38(t)]], [[M24 (Family)|M24]], and even the long 76 mm [[M4A2 (76) W|M4A2]] or [[M4A3 (76) W|M4A3]], significantly boosting its survivability. However larger cannons can still go through it easily, like the [[Sturer Emil]], the [[M36 GMC|M36]], the [[Tiger II (P)]], etc. Also, the SU-85M has several frontal weak spots that can be penetrated by most tanks, such as the driver optics and hatch, some parts of the gun mantlet, and of course, the commander's cupola which is only 45 mm thick, unsloped.
 +
 
 +
As before, the SU-85M can be angled to the left to increase chance of a bounce and give it a chance against shells of tanks like the [[Tiger H1]] or even ignore many tanks of lower BR at point blank range. Unfortunately, tall tanks like the [[Panther A]] have enough of an edge over the SU-85M to penetrate upper part of the hull regardless and even at extreme range and high ground there still is a possibility of being hit directly into commander cupola which has poor armour. Still, angling sometimes makes them flinch and fail the shot and may make them damage gun breech or take out the commander and/or the loader instead of the gunner and the driver, allowing SU-85M to fire back at them again, retreat or ram them to allow teammates to finish them off. For the same reason it is better to keep distance from intense firefights, as there is no telling when your luck will run out.
 +
 
 +
The post-penetration survivability is very poor due to the cramped interior, an explosive AP shell is likely to knock out 2 to 4 crew members. Against solid AP shells the SU-85M can survive a few penetrations, but explosive shells are still more common. A penetration on the left side is generally fatal regardless of a mode, since all 3 crucial crew members are sitting in a straight line, which is why angling is a reasonable strategy even if it does little more than inconvenience SU-85M opponents.
  
''If necessary use a visual template to indicate the most secure and weak zones of the armour.''-->
 
 
'''Armour type:'''
 
'''Armour type:'''
  
* Rolled homogeneous armour
+
* Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, superstructure)
* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Driver's hatch)
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* Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, driver's hatch)
  
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
|-
! Armour !! Front !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
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! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
 
|-
 
|-
| Hull || 75 mm (49-50°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 45 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' <br> 70 mm (50°) ''Driver's hatch'' || 45 mm (15-41°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm ''Bottom'' || 45 mm (48°) ''Top'' <br> 45 mm (48°) ''Bottom'' || 20 mm
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| Hull || 75 mm (52°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 45 mm (60°) ''Lower glacis'' || 45 mm ''Bottom'' <br> 45 mm (41°) ''Engine compartment'' || 45 mm (49°) ''Upper glacis'' <br> 45 mm (49°) ''Lower glacis'' || 20 mm <br> 20 + 10 mm ''Engine vents''
 
|-
 
|-
| Superstructure || 75 mm (49-50°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 75 + 75 mm (0-89°) ''Gun mantlet'' || 45 mm (15-41°) || 45 mm || 20 mm
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| Superstructure || 75 mm (52°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 70 mm (52°) ''Driver's hatch'' <br> 75 + 75 mm (spherical) ''Gun mantlet'' || 75 mm ''Gun mantlet'' <br> 45 mm (19°) <br> 45 mm (cylindrical) ''Cupola well'' || 45 mm <br> 20 mm ''Rear hatch'' || 20 mm
 
|-
 
|-
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
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| Cupola || colspan="3" style="text-align:center" | 45 mm (cylindrical) || 20 mm
|-
 
| Cupola || 45 mm || 20 mm
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
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* Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.
 
* Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.
 +
* Mudguards and fuel barrels are not modeled as armour.
  
 
=== Mobility ===
 
=== Mobility ===
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{{Specs-Tank-Mobility}}
 
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
 
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
  
{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 710|rbMinHp= 442|<!--AoAweight=(optional) -->}}
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{{tankMobility|abMinHp=710|rbMinHp=442}}
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 +
Being based on a T-34 chassis, the mobility of the SU-85M also feels similar to the T-34-85. The top speed of 55 km/h and a powerful 500 hp engine allow it to manoeuvre around the battlefield quite easily, though it might sometimes feel sluggish when accelerating, especially with stock engine modifications. Its wide tracks greatly improve the handling on muddy or soft terrains, giving it great off-road mobility. The hull traverse speed is adequate for quick turns in an urban environment or keeping up with a flanker, but often a forward acceleration is needed to turn the hull quicker. The reverse speed, however, is only -8 km/h on average which can get the player killed as it prevents the SU-85M from retreating back to safety quickly.
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=== Modifications and economy ===
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{{Specs-Economy}}
  
 
== Armaments ==
 
== Armaments ==
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
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{{Specs-Tank-Armaments}}
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=== Main armament ===
 +
{{Specs-Tank-Weapon|1}}
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<!-- ''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.'' -->
 
{{main|D-5S (85 mm)}}
 
{{main|D-5S (85 mm)}}
  
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
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The SU-85M is armed with the 85 mm D-5S cannon, similar to the one used by the famous T-34-85. Just like the T-34's cannon, the D-5S comes with a variety of shells for different scenarios, including APHE, APCR and HE. These shells are all very capable of penetrating common opponents (e.g. Tiger H1, Chi-Ri, Pz.IV 70) at an appropriate distance, and the damage of the APHE shells are one of the best.
|-
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! colspan="6" | [[D-5S (85 mm)|85 mm D-5S]]
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However, the SU-85M's firepower is greatly limited by the traverse angles. The insufficient gun depression of only -3 degrees is very restricting, it is even worse than the SU-85 and T-34-85, preventing the SU-85M from combating in a hilly battlefield. The aiming speed of the gun is also not fast, meaning it can be vulnerable to flankers and fast targets. Lastly, just like most tanks at this stage, the SU-85M is aimed by a gunsight whose magnification tops at 3.5x which is not helpful for long range engagements.
|-
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! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
 
 
|-
 
|-
| colspan="3" | 60 || -3°/+20° || ±8° || N/A
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! colspan="5" | [[D-5S (85 mm)|85 mm D-5S]] || colspan="5" | Turret rotation speed (°/s) || colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
|-
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
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! Mode !! Capacity !! Vertical !! Horizontal !! Stabilizer
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! Stock !! Upgraded !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
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! Stock !! Full !! Expert !! Aced
 
|-
 
|-
! style="width:4em" |Mode
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! ''Arcade''
! style="width:4em" |Stock
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| rowspan="2" | 60 || rowspan="2" | -3°/+20° || rowspan="2" | ±8° || rowspan="2" | N/A || 7.0 || 9.8 || 11.8 || 13.1 || 13.9 || rowspan="2" | 9.62 || rowspan="2" | 8.51 || rowspan="2" | 7.84 || rowspan="2" | 7.40
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
 
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
 
|-
 
|-
| ''Arcade'' || 4.8 || 6.6 ||11.8||13.1||13.9
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! ''Realistic''
|-
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| 4.8 || 5.6 || 6.8 || 7.5 || 8.0
| ''Realistic'' || 4.8 || 5.6 ||6.8||7.5||8.0
 
|-
 
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Stock
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
|-
 
| 9.6 ||8.5||7.9||7.4
 
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
===== Ammunition =====
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==== Ammunition ====
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
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{{:D-5S (85 mm)/Ammunition|BR-365K, BR-365A, BR-365P, O-365K}}
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
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|-
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==== [[Ammo racks]] ====
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
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[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.png|right|thumb|x250px|[[Ammo racks]] of the {{PAGENAME}}]]
! rowspan="2" | Type of<br>warhead
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<!-- '''Last updated: 1.101.2.60''' -->
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)'''
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
|-
 
! 10 m !! 100 m !! 500 m !! 1,000 m !! 1,500 m !! 2,000 m
 
|-
 
| BR-365K || APHE || 148 || 143 || 126 || 106 || 90 || 77
 
|-
 
| BR-365A || APHEBC || 135 || 133 || 125 || 115 || 106 || 97
 
|-
 
| BR-365P || APCR || 195 || 187 || 154 || 120 || 94 || 74
 
|-
 
| O-365K || HE || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10 || 10
 
|-  
 
|}
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
! colspan="10" | Shell details
 
 
|-
 
|-
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
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! Full<br>ammo
! rowspan="2" | Type of<br>warhead
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! 1st<br>rack empty
! rowspan="2" | Velocity<br>(m/s)
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! 2nd<br>rack empty
! rowspan="2" | Projectile<br>Mass (kg)
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! 3rd<br>rack empty
! rowspan="2" | Fuse delay<br>(m)
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! 4th<br>rack empty
! rowspan="2" | Fuse sensitivity<br>(mm)
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! Visual<br>discrepancy
! rowspan="2" | Explosive Mass<br>(TNT equivalent) (g)
 
! colspan="3" | Ricochet
 
 
|-
 
|-
! 0% !! 50% !! 100%
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| '''60''' || 46&nbsp;''(+14)'' || 31&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 12&nbsp;''(+48)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+59)'' || No
 
|-
 
|-
| BR-365K || APHE || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 14 || 73.92 || 47° || 60° || 65°
 
|-
 
| BR-365A || APHEBC || 792 || 9.2 || 1.2 || 14 || 164 || 48° || 63° || 71°
 
|-
 
| BR-365P || APCR || 1,050 || 4.99 || N/A || N/A || N/A || 66° || 70° || 72°
 
|-
 
| O-365K || HE || 793 || 9.54 || 0.1 || 0.3 || 660 || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
|-
 
 
|}
 
|}
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'''Notes''':
  
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
+
* Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
[[File:Ammoracks_SU-85M.png|right|thumbnail|x250px|[[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] of the SU-85M.]]
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* Flanks and front hull empty: 13&nbsp;''(+47)'' shells.
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Full<br /> ammo
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |1st<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |2nd<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |3rd<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |4th<br />  rack empty
 
! class="wikitable unsortable" |Visual<br /> discrepancy
 
|-
 
|| '''60''' || 46&nbsp;''(+14)'' || 31&nbsp;''(+29)'' || 16&nbsp;''(+44)'' || 1&nbsp;''(+59)'' || style="text-align:left" | No
 
|-
 
|}
 
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
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<!-- ''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but instead give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).'' -->
As a tank destroyer, the SU-85M's job is to hunt down and ambush tanks and destroy them. When aiming at a tank, prioritize the area the enemy gunner sits at as if the first shot does not completely destroy the enemy vehicle, the downed gunner forces the enemy to fallback as the SU-85M goes through the lengthy reload time.  
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As a tank destroyer, the SU-85M's job is to hunt down and ambush tanks and destroy them. When aiming at a tank, prioritize the area the enemy gunner sits at as if the first shot does not completely destroy the enemy vehicle, the downed gunner forces the enemy to fallback as the SU-85M goes through the lengthy reload time.
  
Do not attempt to brawl with this vehicle as it is unsuited for mobile, frontal assaults due to the fixed gun traverse. Keep calm and wait for the enemy to roll into the gun sights instead so while the enemy panics upon the sight of the tank destroyer, the SU-85M can use this time to aim for a good hit.
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Do not attempt to brawl with this vehicle as it is unsuited for mobile, frontal assaults due to the fixed gun traverse and height differences. Keep calm and wait for the enemy to roll into the gun sights instead so while the enemy panics upon the sight of the tank destroyer, the SU-85M can use this time to aim for a good hit.
  
Heavy tanks and medium tanks should be engaged with caution due to their lethality against the SU-85M's armour. Heavy tanks are a concern as some have enough armour and angling to prevent a reliable penetration by the 85 mm, like the [[M4A3E2 (76) W|M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo]], [[IS-1]], [[IS-2]], and [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]]. Have them distracted against teammates first to avert their cannons from the SU-85M's location. While they are engaged against them, aim the 85 mm onto weak points on their front armour, or flank around and attack them on their side armour. Though most medium tanks will be able to be destroyed by an 85 mm shot, some medium tanks could resist the 85 mm shot by a high degree such as [[Panther D|Panthers]].
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Heavy tanks and medium tanks should be engaged with caution due to their lethality against the SU-85M's armour. Heavy tanks are a concern as some have enough armour and/or angling to prevent a reliable penetration by the 85 mm, like the [[M4A3E2 (76) W|M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo]], [[IS-1]], [[IS-2]], and [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]]. Have them distracted against teammates first and attack them when they lose focus, as otherwise they will immediately take defensive stance against you. While they are engaged against teammates or otherwise distracted, aim the 85 mm onto weak points on their front armour, or flank around and attack them on their side armour. Though most medium tanks will be able to be destroyed by an 85 mm shot, some medium tanks with angled armour could resist the 85 mm shot by a high degree such as [[Panther D|Panthers]].
  
 
'''Enemies worth noting:'''
 
'''Enemies worth noting:'''
  
[[Panther A]]/[[Panther D|D]], [[Tiger II (P)]]:
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[[Panther A]]/[[Panther D|D]] - The Panthers are one of the most common tanks around BR 5.7, and they pose a great threat with their deadly long 75 mm cannon, tall profile, thick sloped frontal armour and adequate speed. You want to avoid engaging them at long range as the SU-85M has only x3.5 scope magnification, making long-range shooting super hard. Engage the Panthers within 500 m and avoid shooting their frontal hull, unless you have high ground. Their biggest weak spot is the gun mantlet, which is only 100 mm thick and has a flat part in the middle. That is where you want to aim at, the SU-85's APHE has sufficient damage to destroy half of the Panther crew even from its turret. The second weak spot is the sides, which more often than not instantly destroys the vehicle. Generally, APHE is enough to deal with the Panthers, and no APCR is needed. The APHE shell loves to chew through the Panther's thin side armour, even if it's a bit angled.
 
 
The Panthers are one of the most common tanks around BR 5.7, and they pose a great threat with their deadly long 75 mm cannon, thick frontal armour and adequate speed. You want to avoid engaging them at long range as the SU-85M has only x3.5 scope magnification, making long-range shooting super hard. Engage the Panthers within 500 m and avoid shooting their frontal hull. Their biggest weak spot is the gun mantlet, which is only 100 mm thick and has a flat part in the middle. That is where you want to aim at, the SU-85's APHE has sufficient damage to instantly destroy the Panther even from its turret. The second weak spot is the sides, which more often than not instantly destroys the vehicle. Generally, APHE is enough to deal with the Panthers, and no APCR is needed. The APHE shell loves to chew through the Panther's thin side armour, even if it's angled.
 
 
 
For the Tiger II P, aim at the vertical area of the frontal turret which is also 100 mm. The best tactic is still to flank it, however.
 
 
 
[[Tiger H1]]/[[Tiger E|E]]:
 
 
 
The Tiger's weak spots are the opposite with the Panthers. Their hull is unsloped and rather thin, while the gun mantlet is weirdly shaped and can absorb quite some shells. The best engaging range remains the same, within 500 m. If the Tiger is angling, aim at the turret ring to disable the gunner and destroy the turret traverse, or aim at the hull side below the side skirt, which is only 60 mm. If it is not angling, aim between the driver's vision port and the MG for an instant kill. Avoid shooting at these two parts as they tend to bounce/absorb shells. For the Tiger E, don't shoot at the lower glacis as there will be add-on tracks installed there, making it harder to penetrate. Its transmission will also absorb all damage.
 
 
 
[[Ho-Ri Production|Ho-Ri]]:
 
 
 
In a frontal engagement, APCR is required as the APHE shells don't have enough penetration. With APCR loaded, aim at the further sides of the fighting compartment, away from the gun, because the further from the gun, the thinner the armour gets, with the thinnest part being around 160 mm unsloped. Penetrating there will knock out its loader, gunner or commander, or detonate the ammo. Of course, the best way is still side-shooting with APHE.
 
  
[[Panzer IV/70(V)|Panzer IV/70]], [[Jagdpanzer 38(t)]]:
+
[[Tiger H1]]/[[Tiger E|E]] - The Tiger's weak spots are the opposite with the Panthers. Their hull is flat and rather thin, while the gun mantlet is weirdly shaped and can absorb quite some shells. The best engaging range remains the same, within 500 m. If the Tiger is angling, aim at the turret ring to disable the gunner and destroy the turret traverse, or aim at the hull side below the side skirt, which is only 60 mm. If it is not angling, aim between the driver's vision port and the MG for an instant kill. Avoid shooting at these two parts as they will bounce/absorb shells every time. For the Tiger E, don't shoot at the lower glacis as there will be add-on tracks installed there, making it harder to penetrate. Its transmission will also absorb all damage. when the situation demands you to get hit, angle or wiggle your tank as the SU-85M surprisingly can block the short 88.
  
These small tank destroyers with their well-angled frontal armour can be quite a problem from a distance. With APHE, you can disable their transmission by shooting at their lower glacis. Now if you can, flank them. The 85 mm APHE does a great job at penetrating sloped, thin armour, so you don't have to get to their absolute sides. For the Pz IV/70, you can also aim at the downward part of the gun mantlet since the shell might ricochet downwards into the hull, knocking out every crew member. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) doesn't have this problem, so side-shooting is required to destroy it effectively.
+
[[Panzer IV/70(V)|Panzer IV/70]], [[Jagdpanzer 38(t)]] - These small tank destroyers with their well-angled frontal armour can be quite a problem from a distance. With APHE, you can disable their transmission by shooting at their lower glacis. Now if you can, flank them. The 85 mm APHE does a great job at penetrating sloped, thin armour, so you don't have to get to their absolute sides. For the Pz IV/70, you can also aim at the downward part of the gun mantlet since the shell might ricochet downwards into the hull, knocking out every crew member. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) doesn't have this problem, so side-shooting is required to destroy it effectively.
  
[[M4A3E2 (76) W|M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo]]:
+
[[M4A3E2 (76) W]] - Engage with caution. The 76 mm could penetrate through the front hull with ease at average combat ranges. The front hull armour is impervious to APCR in most cases and will block APHE shots if angled correctly. Focus on weak spots such as the lower side armour and the turret ring, or even the shot trap on the lower sections of the gun mantlet. Attack from high ground to negate its angled armour or destroy the cannon and rush it down, if you must.
  
Engage with caution. The 76 mm could penetrate through the front hull with ease at average combat ranges. The front hull armour is impervious to APCR in most cases and could bounce most AP shots if angled correctly. Focus on weak spots such as the lower side armour and the turret ring, or even the shot trap on the lower sections of the gun mantlet.
+
[[Sturer Emil]] - Picking a long-range fight with a Sturer Emil from the front is suicide, the Emil's 128 mm will reach and penetrate the SU-85M before it is in position to fire back. Only engage if certain the Emil is unaware of the {{PAGENAME}}'s presence on its flanks, or point it out to allies for more mobile friendlies to engage and destroy it. Allies could also divert its attention from the SU-85M to allow for an 85 mm shot into the thin armour on it. If you have to attack it head-on, load HE and pray to fire first, as the Sturer Emil can destroy the SU-85M in one hit. If a hit was successful, it will lose most of its crew (which should be enough for it to count as dead in RB), after this attempt to move out of its gun range and finish it off if it's still alive.
  
[[Sturer Emil]]:  
+
[[Nashorn]]: Same as the Sturer Emil, but this tank does not have a chance to survive an HE shell and it moves much faster.
  
Picking a long-range fight with Sturer Emil from the front is suicide, the Emil's 128 mm will reach and penetrate the SU-85M before it is in position to fire back. Only engage if certain the Emil is unaware of the {{PAGENAME}}'s presence on its flanks, or point it out to allies for more mobile friendlies to engage and destroy it. Allies could also divert its attention from the SU-85M to allow for an 85 mm shot into the thin armour on it.
+
[[M10 (Family)|M10]], [[M18 Hellcat (Family)|M18]] and [[M36 Jackson (Family)|M36]] - If you can, load HE before engaging them to obliterate them in one hit anywhere, as they a tendency to survive APHE shots and are way too dangerous to SU-85M to be left alive. If you have APHE loaded, aim for the turret or the middle of the tank. Watch out for a flanking M18, always have a teammate around to deal with it. Do not try to tank a hit from M36, the SU-85M cannot survive its potent 90 mm.
 
 
=== Modules ===
 
{| class="wikitable"
 
! Tier
 
! colspan="2" | Mobility
 
! Protection
 
! colspan="2" | Firepower
 
|-
 
| I
 
| Tracks
 
|
 
| Parts
 
| Horizontal Drive
 
| BR-365A
 
|-
 
| II
 
| Suspension
 
| Brake System
 
| FPE
 
| Adjustment of Fire
 
|
 
|-
 
| III
 
| Filters
 
|
 
| Crew Replenishment
 
| Elevation Mechanism
 
| BR-365P
 
|-
 
| IV
 
| Transmission
 
| Engine
 
|
 
|
 
|
 
|-
 
|}
 
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Do not use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - they have a substitution in the form of softer "inadequate", "effective".''-->
+
<!-- ''Summarise and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - use substitutions with softer forms such as "inadequate" and "effective".'' -->
  
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
  
* Modest Armour
+
* Modest upper frontal plate protection can sustain shots from short tanks, even at closer ranges if angled
* 85mm gun is still effective for all vehicles at close range (except, in some cases, the IS-2)
+
* 85 mm gun is effective against most vehicles with its adequate penetration and destructive damage
* Access to APCR ammunition.
+
* Access to BR-365P APCR to penetrate tougher tanks
 +
* Upgraded APHE offers higher knock-out potential
 
* Good speed of 40 km/h with great manoeuvrability on most angles and surfaces
 
* Good speed of 40 km/h with great manoeuvrability on most angles and surfaces
 +
* Low silhouette
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
  
* Gun depression is painful, even on a gentle slope
+
* Vulnerable to tall tanks like the [[Panther A]] and needs high ground and long range or high user skill to beat them on equal elevation, as they often also can deflect its shells at random
* Turret turning time is enough for an enemy to aim and do a point-blank shot (from 250m)
+
* Driver hatch and area around cupola are weak spots that often can be penetrated by German and Japanese tanks even when angling
* Like most tank destroyers, it comes without a turret
+
* Penetration on the left side is always fatal, very vulnerable to HEAT and other special shells for this reason
 +
* -3 degrees gun depression is painful, cannot aim down even on a gentle slope, the SPG will have to unangle and expose itself to attack downwards at close to medium range
 +
* Cannon turns slowly enough for an enemy to jump out from the opposite direction, aim and do a close range shot (from 250 m) before the SU-85M can return fire accurately
 +
* Comes without a turret, making it vulnerable in certain situations (but also less visible)
 +
* Very average reverse speed of -9 km/h
 +
* Reload can be too long for what the SU-85M must face, so fights should be picked carefully
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/historical reference" (example: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Name-vehicles/historical reference) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to include links to sources at the end of the article.''-->
+
<!-- ''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too long, take it to a separate article, taking a link to the article about the vehicle and adding a block "/History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article with <code><nowiki><references /></nowiki></code>. This section may also include the vehicle's dev blog entry (if applicable) and the in-game encyclopedia description (under <code><nowiki>=== In-game description ===</nowiki></code>, also if applicable).'' -->
 
===Development===
 
===Development===
 
The development for this vehicle began in 1943 to supplement the firepower the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] and [[KV-1 (ZiS-5)|KV-1]] has. Before then, the T-34 and KV-1 tanks are more than adequate to deal with the German Panzer forces, but by the end of 1942, the appearance of the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] revealed that the German armoured forces were becoming more developed and more armoured. This reveal showed the Red Army that needed better guns in order to deal with the rising threat of these new German vehicles.
 
The development for this vehicle began in 1943 to supplement the firepower the [[T-34 (1942)|T-34]] and [[KV-1 (ZiS-5)|KV-1]] has. Before then, the T-34 and KV-1 tanks are more than adequate to deal with the German Panzer forces, but by the end of 1942, the appearance of the [[Tiger H1|Tiger I]] revealed that the German armoured forces were becoming more developed and more armoured. This reveal showed the Red Army that needed better guns in order to deal with the rising threat of these new German vehicles.
  
The search for a better gun led to the development of the D-5 85 mm gun, which was a modified anti-aircraft gun made by design bureaus of Vasiliy Grabin and Fyodor Petrov. It was found that the new gun was unable to be mounted on the current T-34 or KV-1, so it was to be mounted as a self-propelled gun like the [[SU-122]], which is a self-propelled gun made on a T-34 chassis. The vehicle to be produced was designated the '''[[SU-85]]''' and was similar to the SU-122, just replacing the 122 mm gun with an 85 mm one. The gun that was to be mounted in the self-propelled configuration was designated the D-5S (S for self-propelled) and the vehicle was produced at the Uralmash factory. Modifications were made overtime during its production such as a telescopic sight and a new ball gun mantlet, these modified vehicles were designated the ''SU-85-II''. Up to 2,050 units were produced from mid-1943 to late 1944.
+
The search for a better gun led to the development of the D-5 85 mm gun, which was a modified anti-aircraft gun made by design bureaus of Vasiliy Grabin and Fyodor Petrov. It was found that the new gun was unable to be mounted on the current T-34 or KV-1, so it was to be mounted as a self-propelled gun like the [[SU-122]], which is a self-propelled gun made on a T-34 chassis. The vehicle to be produced was designated the [[SU-85]] and was similar to the SU-122, just replacing the 122 mm gun with an 85 mm one. The gun that was to be mounted in the self-propelled configuration was designated the D-5S (S for self-propelled) and the vehicle was produced at the Uralmash factory. Modifications were made overtime during its production such as a telescopic sight and a new ball gun mantlet, these modified vehicles were designated the "SU-85-II". Up to 2,050 units were produced from mid-1943 to late 1944.
  
 
===Combat usage===
 
===Combat usage===
The SU-85 saw service in August 1943 in Soviet service, which coincides the time the Soviets engage in a counteroffensive against the Battle of Kursk. It was praised for its low profile to be able to conceal itself and its excellent mobility. The initial production batch had low visibility due to lack of optics, with only four periscopes in the design, but this was improved on the '''SU-85M''' with a commander's cupola seen on the later variants of the T-34. The 85 mm gun was able to destroy a Tiger tank from 1000 meters out, proving much capable against the newer German tank designs. Though capable, its firepower was still seen as lacking considering the Tiger could still destroy it and T-34s from up to 2,000 meters away. The lack of range on the SU-85, plus the up-arming of T-34s from the 76.2 mm F-34 gun to the same 85 mm gun as well in the [[T-34-85]] caused the production of the SU-85 to be cancelled in late 1944 as it no longer provided any beneficial firepower over the standard tank unit.
+
The SU-85 saw service in August 1943 in Soviet service, which coincides the time the Soviets engage in a counteroffensive against the Battle of Kursk. It was praised for its low profile to be able to conceal itself and its excellent mobility. The initial production batch had low visibility due to lack of optics, with only four periscopes in the design, but this was improved on the SU-85M with a commander's cupola seen on the later variants of the T-34. The 85 mm gun was able to destroy a Tiger tank from 1,000 m out, proving much capable against the newer German tank designs. Though capable, its firepower was still seen as lacking considering the Tiger could still destroy it and T-34s from up to 2,000 m away. The lack of range on the SU-85, plus the up-arming of T-34s from the 76.2 mm F-34 gun to the same 85 mm gun as well in the [[T-34-85]] caused the production of the SU-85 to be cancelled in late 1944 as it no longer provided any beneficial firepower over the standard tank unit.
  
 
Even after it was retired from Soviet service, replaced by the more powerful [[SU-100]], it was exported to Soviet allies in the Warsaw Pact after World War II. The SU-85s were either kept as tank destroyers or converted into armour recovery or command vehicles. These vehicles saw service in North Korea, Vietnam, and may still be in service today by Central European countries like Albania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Romania.
 
Even after it was retired from Soviet service, replaced by the more powerful [[SU-100]], it was exported to Soviet allies in the Warsaw Pact after World War II. The SU-85s were either kept as tank destroyers or converted into armour recovery or command vehicles. These vehicles saw service in North Korea, Vietnam, and may still be in service today by Central European countries like Albania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Romania.
  
=== In-game descriptions ===
+
{{break}}
"The increasing armour thickness of the enemy's new heavy tanks necessitated a more powerful SPG. A newly planned 100 mm weapon was being reworked. So in July 1944, the 85 mm D-5-S85 cannon was installed in a newly designed SPG cabin with thicker 75 mm frontal armour, a spacious fighting compartment and a command cupola. This SPG was designated SU-85M and was produced until December 1944. The vehicle, equipped with a new gun mantlet, fired at a rate of 6-8 shots per minute. Its elevation angle was -5° to +25°, and its traversing angle was 20° (up to 10° to each side). In contrast to the SU-85, the vehicle's ammunition capacity was increased to 60 shells. The SPG's crew used PPSh submachine guns and F-1 hand grenades for self-defence.
+
{{Navigation-Start|{{Annotation|Archive of the in-game description|An archive of the historical description of the vehicle that was presented in-game prior to Update 1.55 'Royal Armour'}}}}
 +
{{Navigation-First-Simple-Line}}
 +
The increasing armour thickness of the enemy's new heavy tanks necessitated a more powerful SPG. A newly planned 100 mm weapon was being reworked. So in July 1944, the 85 mm D-5-S85 cannon was installed in a newly designed SPG cabin with thicker 75 mm frontal armour, a spacious fighting compartment and a command cupola. This SPG was designated SU-85M and was produced until December 1944. The vehicle, equipped with a new gun mantlet, fired at a rate of 6-8 shots per minute. Its elevation angle was -5° to +25°, and its traversing angle was 20° (up to 10° to each side). In contrast to the SU-85, the vehicle's ammunition capacity was increased to 60 shells. The SPG's crew used PPSh submachine guns and F-1 hand grenades for self-defence.
  
 
In 1944, 315 SU-85M SPGs were manufactured in total.
 
In 1944, 315 SU-85M SPGs were manufactured in total.
Line 250: Line 182:
 
SU-85 and SU-85M SPGs were put into service in the Polish Army.
 
SU-85 and SU-85M SPGs were put into service in the Polish Army.
  
In spite of all the SPG's advantages, its firepower was insufficient to combat enemy heavy tanks at long ranges."
+
In spite of all the SPG's advantages, its firepower was insufficient to combat enemy heavy tanks at long ranges.
 +
{{Navigation-End}}
  
 
== Media ==
 
== Media ==
''An excellent addition to the article will be video guides, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''
+
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
 +
 
 +
;Skins
 +
 
 +
* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicle=ussr_su_85m Skins and camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
  
== Read also ==
+
;Videos
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example,''
+
{{Youtube-gallery|I-lKNF88H8k|'''Sub Request, SU-85M. Oh this is gonna hurt....''' - ''Joseph 2000''|soEbO1dEJUM|'''SU-85M - Surprisingly excellent!''' - ''Oxy''}}
  
 +
== See also ==
 +
<!-- ''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
+
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.'' -->
 +
 
 +
;Vehicles equipped with the same chassis
  
''ETC.''
+
* [[SU-122]]
 +
* [[SU-85]]
 +
* [[SU-100]]
 +
* [[SU-122P]]
  
== Sources ==
+
;Other vehicles of similar configuration and role
''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
  
 +
* [[Panzer IV/70(V)]]
 +
 +
== External links ==
 +
<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
* ''other literature.''
+
* ''other literature.'' -->
 +
 
 +
* [[wikipedia:SU-85|[Wikipedia] SU-85]]
 +
* [https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_SU-85.php <nowiki>[Tanks Encyclopedia]</nowiki> SU-85]
  
 
{{USSR tank destroyers}}
 
{{USSR tank destroyers}}

Latest revision as of 05:45, 11 August 2024

Rank 7 USA
F-5C Pack
This page is about the Soviet tank destroyer SU-85M. For the other version, see SU-85. For the open-topped SPG, see SU-85A.
ussr_su_85m.png
GarageImage SU-85M.jpg
ArtImage SU-85M.png
SU-85M
AB RB SB
5.0 5.0 5.0
Research:33 000 Specs-Card-Exp.png
Purchase:105 000 Specs-Card-Lion.png
Show in game

Description

The SU-85M was an improved design (rather than a separate variant) of the SU-85 self-propelled gun used by the Soviets during World War II. It has slightly thicker frontal armour and a better commander cupola. There were 315 units built in total.

Introduced in the Closed Beta Test for Ground Forces before Update 1.41, the SU-85M should be played as a long-range sniper due to its powerful gun. Its lack of a turret makes it unsuitable for close-quarters combat, even with the thickness of its frontal armour increased compared to SU-85. Moreover, the protection gain is negligible due to the advent of more advanced enemies. It is therefore not a good idea to be close to the front lines. To increase the effectiveness of armour, players should stay behind the main fighting zone and eliminate enemy targets from far away, making the best use of long-distance and low silhouettes to enhance survivability.

General info

Survivability and armour

Armourfront / side / back
Hull75 / 45 / 45
Turret75 / 45 / 45
Crew4 people
Visibility77 %

The SU-85M sees a great improvement on the upper front plate than the preceding SU-85, from 45 mm to 75 mm. Thanks to this the SU-85M can now frontally resist medium-penetrating tanks such as the Jagdpanzer 38(t), M24, and even the long 76 mm M4A2 or M4A3, significantly boosting its survivability. However larger cannons can still go through it easily, like the Sturer Emil, the M36, the Tiger II (P), etc. Also, the SU-85M has several frontal weak spots that can be penetrated by most tanks, such as the driver optics and hatch, some parts of the gun mantlet, and of course, the commander's cupola which is only 45 mm thick, unsloped.

As before, the SU-85M can be angled to the left to increase chance of a bounce and give it a chance against shells of tanks like the Tiger H1 or even ignore many tanks of lower BR at point blank range. Unfortunately, tall tanks like the Panther A have enough of an edge over the SU-85M to penetrate upper part of the hull regardless and even at extreme range and high ground there still is a possibility of being hit directly into commander cupola which has poor armour. Still, angling sometimes makes them flinch and fail the shot and may make them damage gun breech or take out the commander and/or the loader instead of the gunner and the driver, allowing SU-85M to fire back at them again, retreat or ram them to allow teammates to finish them off. For the same reason it is better to keep distance from intense firefights, as there is no telling when your luck will run out.

The post-penetration survivability is very poor due to the cramped interior, an explosive AP shell is likely to knock out 2 to 4 crew members. Against solid AP shells the SU-85M can survive a few penetrations, but explosive shells are still more common. A penetration on the left side is generally fatal regardless of a mode, since all 3 crucial crew members are sitting in a straight line, which is why angling is a reasonable strategy even if it does little more than inconvenience SU-85M opponents.

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour (Hull, superstructure)
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, driver's hatch)
Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 75 mm (52°) Front glacis
45 mm (60°) Lower glacis
45 mm Bottom
45 mm (41°) Engine compartment
45 mm (49°) Upper glacis
45 mm (49°) Lower glacis
20 mm
20 + 10 mm Engine vents
Superstructure 75 mm (52°) Front glacis
70 mm (52°) Driver's hatch
75 + 75 mm (spherical) Gun mantlet
75 mm Gun mantlet
45 mm (19°)
45 mm (cylindrical) Cupola well
45 mm
20 mm Rear hatch
20 mm
Cupola 45 mm (cylindrical) 20 mm

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick.
  • Mudguards and fuel barrels are not modeled as armour.

Mobility

Speedforward / back
AB60 / 10 km/h
RB and SB55 / 9 km/h
Number of gears5 forward
1 back
Weight31.6 t
Engine power
AB954 hp
RB and SB500 hp
Power-to-weight ratio
AB30.2 hp/t
RB and SB15.8 hp/t
Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 60 10 31.6 710 954 22.47 30.19
Realistic 55 9 442 500 13.99 15.82

Being based on a T-34 chassis, the mobility of the SU-85M also feels similar to the T-34-85. The top speed of 55 km/h and a powerful 500 hp engine allow it to manoeuvre around the battlefield quite easily, though it might sometimes feel sluggish when accelerating, especially with stock engine modifications. Its wide tracks greatly improve the handling on muddy or soft terrains, giving it great off-road mobility. The hull traverse speed is adequate for quick turns in an urban environment or keeping up with a flanker, but often a forward acceleration is needed to turn the hull quicker. The reverse speed, however, is only -8 km/h on average which can get the player killed as it prevents the SU-85M from retreating back to safety quickly.

Modifications and economy

Repair costBasic → Reference
AB1 464 → 1 810 Sl icon.png
RB1 724 → 2 132 Sl icon.png
SB2 367 → 2 927 Sl icon.png
Total cost of modifications30 000 Rp icon.png
58 400 Sl icon.png
Talisman cost1 200 Ge icon.png
Crew training30 000 Sl icon.png
Experts105 000 Sl icon.png
Aces470 Ge icon.png
Research Aces360 000 Rp icon.png
Reward for battleAB / RB / SB
90 / 140 / 170 % Sl icon.png
148 / 148 / 148 % Rp icon.png
Modifications
Mobility Protection Firepower
Mods new tank traks.png
Tracks
Research:
1 500 Rp icon.png
Cost:
2 900 Sl icon.png
100 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank suspension.png
Suspension
Research:
1 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 300 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank break.png
Brake System
Research:
1 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 300 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank filter.png
Filters
Research:
1 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 700 Sl icon.png
130 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank transmission.png
Transmission
Research:
4 800 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 400 Sl icon.png
330 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank engine.png
Engine
Research:
4 800 Rp icon.png
Cost:
9 400 Sl icon.png
330 Ge icon.png
Mods tank tool kit.png
Improved Parts
Research:
1 500 Rp icon.png
Cost:
2 900 Sl icon.png
100 Ge icon.png
Mods extinguisher.png
Improved FPE
Research:
1 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 300 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods tank reinforcement ussr.png
Crew Replenishment
Research:
1 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 700 Sl icon.png
130 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank horizontal aiming.png
Horizontal Drive
Research:
1 500 Rp icon.png
Cost:
2 900 Sl icon.png
100 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
85mm_APHE_ammo_pack
Research:
1 500 Rp icon.png
Cost:
2 900 Sl icon.png
100 Ge icon.png
Mods tank cannon.png
Adjustment of Fire
Research:
1 700 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 300 Sl icon.png
115 Ge icon.png
Mods new tank vertical aiming.png
Elevation Mechanism
Research:
1 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 700 Sl icon.png
130 Ge icon.png
Mods tank ammo.png
85mm_APCR_ammo_pack
Research:
1 900 Rp icon.png
Cost:
3 700 Sl icon.png
130 Ge icon.png

Armaments

Main armament

85 mm D-5S cannon
Ammunition60 rounds
Reloadbasic crew → aces
9.6 → 7.4 s
Vertical guidance-3° / 20°
Horizontal guidance-8° / 8°
Main article: D-5S (85 mm)

The SU-85M is armed with the 85 mm D-5S cannon, similar to the one used by the famous T-34-85. Just like the T-34's cannon, the D-5S comes with a variety of shells for different scenarios, including APHE, APCR and HE. These shells are all very capable of penetrating common opponents (e.g. Tiger H1, Chi-Ri, Pz.IV 70) at an appropriate distance, and the damage of the APHE shells are one of the best.

However, the SU-85M's firepower is greatly limited by the traverse angles. The insufficient gun depression of only -3 degrees is very restricting, it is even worse than the SU-85 and T-34-85, preventing the SU-85M from combating in a hilly battlefield. The aiming speed of the gun is also not fast, meaning it can be vulnerable to flankers and fast targets. Lastly, just like most tanks at this stage, the SU-85M is aimed by a gunsight whose magnification tops at 3.5x which is not helpful for long range engagements.

85 mm D-5S Turret rotation speed (°/s) Reloading rate (seconds)
Mode Capacity Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Stock Upgraded Full Expert Aced Stock Full Expert Aced
Arcade 60 -3°/+20° ±8° N/A 7.0 9.8 11.8 13.1 13.9 9.62 8.51 7.84 7.40
Realistic 4.8 5.6 6.8 7.5 8.0

Ammunition

Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
BR-365K APHE 148 143 126 106 90 77
BR-365A APHEBC 135 133 124 114 104 95
BR-365P APCR 195 187 154 122 96 76
O-365K HE 19 18 17 16 15 14
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Velocity
(m/s)
Projectile
mass (kg)
Fuse delay
(m)
Fuse sensitivity
(mm)
Explosive mass
(TNT equivalent) (g)
Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
BR-365K APHE 792 9.2 1.2 14 77 47° 60° 65°
BR-365A APHEBC 792 9.2 1.2 14 164 48° 63° 71°
BR-365P APCR 1,050 4.99 - - - 66° 70° 72°
O-365K HE 785 9.54 0.2 0.1 741 79° 80° 81°

Ammo racks

Ammo racks of the SU-85M
Full
ammo
1st
rack empty
2nd
rack empty
3rd
rack empty
4th
rack empty
Visual
discrepancy
60 46 (+14) 31 (+29) 12 (+48) (+59) No

Notes:

  • Racks disappear after you've fired all shells in the rack.
  • Flanks and front hull empty: 13 (+47) shells.

Usage in battles

As a tank destroyer, the SU-85M's job is to hunt down and ambush tanks and destroy them. When aiming at a tank, prioritize the area the enemy gunner sits at as if the first shot does not completely destroy the enemy vehicle, the downed gunner forces the enemy to fallback as the SU-85M goes through the lengthy reload time.

Do not attempt to brawl with this vehicle as it is unsuited for mobile, frontal assaults due to the fixed gun traverse and height differences. Keep calm and wait for the enemy to roll into the gun sights instead so while the enemy panics upon the sight of the tank destroyer, the SU-85M can use this time to aim for a good hit.

Heavy tanks and medium tanks should be engaged with caution due to their lethality against the SU-85M's armour. Heavy tanks are a concern as some have enough armour and/or angling to prevent a reliable penetration by the 85 mm, like the M4A3E2 (76) W Jumbo, IS-1, IS-2, and Tiger I. Have them distracted against teammates first and attack them when they lose focus, as otherwise they will immediately take defensive stance against you. While they are engaged against teammates or otherwise distracted, aim the 85 mm onto weak points on their front armour, or flank around and attack them on their side armour. Though most medium tanks will be able to be destroyed by an 85 mm shot, some medium tanks with angled armour could resist the 85 mm shot by a high degree such as Panthers.

Enemies worth noting:

Panther A/D - The Panthers are one of the most common tanks around BR 5.7, and they pose a great threat with their deadly long 75 mm cannon, tall profile, thick sloped frontal armour and adequate speed. You want to avoid engaging them at long range as the SU-85M has only x3.5 scope magnification, making long-range shooting super hard. Engage the Panthers within 500 m and avoid shooting their frontal hull, unless you have high ground. Their biggest weak spot is the gun mantlet, which is only 100 mm thick and has a flat part in the middle. That is where you want to aim at, the SU-85's APHE has sufficient damage to destroy half of the Panther crew even from its turret. The second weak spot is the sides, which more often than not instantly destroys the vehicle. Generally, APHE is enough to deal with the Panthers, and no APCR is needed. The APHE shell loves to chew through the Panther's thin side armour, even if it's a bit angled.

Tiger H1/E - The Tiger's weak spots are the opposite with the Panthers. Their hull is flat and rather thin, while the gun mantlet is weirdly shaped and can absorb quite some shells. The best engaging range remains the same, within 500 m. If the Tiger is angling, aim at the turret ring to disable the gunner and destroy the turret traverse, or aim at the hull side below the side skirt, which is only 60 mm. If it is not angling, aim between the driver's vision port and the MG for an instant kill. Avoid shooting at these two parts as they will bounce/absorb shells every time. For the Tiger E, don't shoot at the lower glacis as there will be add-on tracks installed there, making it harder to penetrate. Its transmission will also absorb all damage. when the situation demands you to get hit, angle or wiggle your tank as the SU-85M surprisingly can block the short 88.

Panzer IV/70, Jagdpanzer 38(t) - These small tank destroyers with their well-angled frontal armour can be quite a problem from a distance. With APHE, you can disable their transmission by shooting at their lower glacis. Now if you can, flank them. The 85 mm APHE does a great job at penetrating sloped, thin armour, so you don't have to get to their absolute sides. For the Pz IV/70, you can also aim at the downward part of the gun mantlet since the shell might ricochet downwards into the hull, knocking out every crew member. The Jagdpanzer 38(t) doesn't have this problem, so side-shooting is required to destroy it effectively.

M4A3E2 (76) W - Engage with caution. The 76 mm could penetrate through the front hull with ease at average combat ranges. The front hull armour is impervious to APCR in most cases and will block APHE shots if angled correctly. Focus on weak spots such as the lower side armour and the turret ring, or even the shot trap on the lower sections of the gun mantlet. Attack from high ground to negate its angled armour or destroy the cannon and rush it down, if you must.

Sturer Emil - Picking a long-range fight with a Sturer Emil from the front is suicide, the Emil's 128 mm will reach and penetrate the SU-85M before it is in position to fire back. Only engage if certain the Emil is unaware of the SU-85M's presence on its flanks, or point it out to allies for more mobile friendlies to engage and destroy it. Allies could also divert its attention from the SU-85M to allow for an 85 mm shot into the thin armour on it. If you have to attack it head-on, load HE and pray to fire first, as the Sturer Emil can destroy the SU-85M in one hit. If a hit was successful, it will lose most of its crew (which should be enough for it to count as dead in RB), after this attempt to move out of its gun range and finish it off if it's still alive.

Nashorn: Same as the Sturer Emil, but this tank does not have a chance to survive an HE shell and it moves much faster.

M10, M18 and M36 - If you can, load HE before engaging them to obliterate them in one hit anywhere, as they a tendency to survive APHE shots and are way too dangerous to SU-85M to be left alive. If you have APHE loaded, aim for the turret or the middle of the tank. Watch out for a flanking M18, always have a teammate around to deal with it. Do not try to tank a hit from M36, the SU-85M cannot survive its potent 90 mm.

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Modest upper frontal plate protection can sustain shots from short tanks, even at closer ranges if angled
  • 85 mm gun is effective against most vehicles with its adequate penetration and destructive damage
  • Access to BR-365P APCR to penetrate tougher tanks
  • Upgraded APHE offers higher knock-out potential
  • Good speed of 40 km/h with great manoeuvrability on most angles and surfaces
  • Low silhouette

Cons:

  • Vulnerable to tall tanks like the Panther A and needs high ground and long range or high user skill to beat them on equal elevation, as they often also can deflect its shells at random
  • Driver hatch and area around cupola are weak spots that often can be penetrated by German and Japanese tanks even when angling
  • Penetration on the left side is always fatal, very vulnerable to HEAT and other special shells for this reason
  • -3 degrees gun depression is painful, cannot aim down even on a gentle slope, the SPG will have to unangle and expose itself to attack downwards at close to medium range
  • Cannon turns slowly enough for an enemy to jump out from the opposite direction, aim and do a close range shot (from 250 m) before the SU-85M can return fire accurately
  • Comes without a turret, making it vulnerable in certain situations (but also less visible)
  • Very average reverse speed of -9 km/h
  • Reload can be too long for what the SU-85M must face, so fights should be picked carefully

History

Development

The development for this vehicle began in 1943 to supplement the firepower the T-34 and KV-1 has. Before then, the T-34 and KV-1 tanks are more than adequate to deal with the German Panzer forces, but by the end of 1942, the appearance of the Tiger I revealed that the German armoured forces were becoming more developed and more armoured. This reveal showed the Red Army that needed better guns in order to deal with the rising threat of these new German vehicles.

The search for a better gun led to the development of the D-5 85 mm gun, which was a modified anti-aircraft gun made by design bureaus of Vasiliy Grabin and Fyodor Petrov. It was found that the new gun was unable to be mounted on the current T-34 or KV-1, so it was to be mounted as a self-propelled gun like the SU-122, which is a self-propelled gun made on a T-34 chassis. The vehicle to be produced was designated the SU-85 and was similar to the SU-122, just replacing the 122 mm gun with an 85 mm one. The gun that was to be mounted in the self-propelled configuration was designated the D-5S (S for self-propelled) and the vehicle was produced at the Uralmash factory. Modifications were made overtime during its production such as a telescopic sight and a new ball gun mantlet, these modified vehicles were designated the "SU-85-II". Up to 2,050 units were produced from mid-1943 to late 1944.

Combat usage

The SU-85 saw service in August 1943 in Soviet service, which coincides the time the Soviets engage in a counteroffensive against the Battle of Kursk. It was praised for its low profile to be able to conceal itself and its excellent mobility. The initial production batch had low visibility due to lack of optics, with only four periscopes in the design, but this was improved on the SU-85M with a commander's cupola seen on the later variants of the T-34. The 85 mm gun was able to destroy a Tiger tank from 1,000 m out, proving much capable against the newer German tank designs. Though capable, its firepower was still seen as lacking considering the Tiger could still destroy it and T-34s from up to 2,000 m away. The lack of range on the SU-85, plus the up-arming of T-34s from the 76.2 mm F-34 gun to the same 85 mm gun as well in the T-34-85 caused the production of the SU-85 to be cancelled in late 1944 as it no longer provided any beneficial firepower over the standard tank unit.

Even after it was retired from Soviet service, replaced by the more powerful SU-100, it was exported to Soviet allies in the Warsaw Pact after World War II. The SU-85s were either kept as tank destroyers or converted into armour recovery or command vehicles. These vehicles saw service in North Korea, Vietnam, and may still be in service today by Central European countries like Albania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, and Romania.


Archive of the in-game description

The increasing armour thickness of the enemy's new heavy tanks necessitated a more powerful SPG. A newly planned 100 mm weapon was being reworked. So in July 1944, the 85 mm D-5-S85 cannon was installed in a newly designed SPG cabin with thicker 75 mm frontal armour, a spacious fighting compartment and a command cupola. This SPG was designated SU-85M and was produced until December 1944. The vehicle, equipped with a new gun mantlet, fired at a rate of 6-8 shots per minute. Its elevation angle was -5° to +25°, and its traversing angle was 20° (up to 10° to each side). In contrast to the SU-85, the vehicle's ammunition capacity was increased to 60 shells. The SPG's crew used PPSh submachine guns and F-1 hand grenades for self-defence.

In 1944, 315 SU-85M SPGs were manufactured in total.

The SPGs were used as cover for medium tanks and to offer them fire support when necessary. They were able to quickly move around the front both defensively and offensively. In defence, SU-85s often made use of ambush tactics. The vehicles hid at convenient distances along the enemy tanks' path and, letting them approach to within 300-600 m, opened precision fire. Before T-34-85 tanks went into mass production, this SPG was the primary means of effective battle against German tanks and played the important role of a mobile tank destroyer in the Red Army.

Captured SPGs of this type were used by the Wehrmacht. There were entire regiments of tank destroyers consisting of these vehicles - the 23rd Tank Division, for example.

SU-85 and SU-85M SPGs were put into service in the Polish Army.

In spite of all the SPG's advantages, its firepower was insufficient to combat enemy heavy tanks at long ranges.


Media

Skins
Videos

See also

Vehicles equipped with the same chassis
Other vehicles of similar configuration and role

External links


USSR tank destroyers
SU-76M  SU-76M · SU-76M (5th Gv.Kav.Corps) · SU-85A
SU-57B  SU-57B · SU-76D
T-34 Derivatives  SU-122 · SU-85 · SU-85M · SU-100 · SU-122P
Heavy Tank Derivatives  SU-100Y · ISU-122 · ISU-122S · SU-152 · ISU-152 · Object 268
SU-100P and Derivatives  SU-100P · Object 120
Wheeled  YaG-10 (29-K)
Airborne  ASU-57 · ASU-85
Rocket  BM-8-24 · BM-13N · BM-31-12
ATGM  IT-1 · Shturm-S · Object 775 · Khrizantema-S
Artillery  2S1 · 2S3M
Other  SU-5-1 · ZiS-30 · SU-122-54
USA  SU-57