Difference between pages "BESA (7.92 mm)" and "Lorraine 155 Mle.50"

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{{AutoWeapon-Card
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{{Specs-Card|code=fr_lorraine_155}}
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|image = File:Weapon_BESA_7.92mm.jpg
 
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|title = {{PAGENAME}}
 
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|MG-calibre = 7.92
 
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|Belt-capacity = 225
 
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|RoF = 600
 
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|MG-velocity = 771 - 905
 
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|MG-max-pen = 13
 
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}}
 
  
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
−
<!-- ''Write an introduction to the article in 2-3 small paragraphs. Briefly tell us about the history of the development and combat using the weaponry and also about its features. Make an air or ground vehicles list on which this weapon is installed in our game.'' -->
+
<!--''In the description, the first part needs to be about the history of the creation and combat usage of the vehicle, as well as its key features. In the second part, tell the reader about the ground vehicle in the game. Insert the screenshot of the vehicle. If the novice player does not remember the vehicle by name, they will immediately understand what kind of vehicle it is talking about.''-->
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The '''BESA machine gun''' is a British 7.92 mm machine gun, it is a license-built variant of the Czechoslovakian ZB-53 machine gun. The BESA was the British Army's standard tank-mounted machine gun from the start of WW2, until the 1950s, being withdrawn from service in the late 1960s. As such in the game it is by far the most ubiquitous machine gun in the British ground forces tree, featuring as the co-axial weapon or commands weapon for most tanks from rank 1 to rank 4. Being only a 7.7 mm machine gun, it is largely ineffective against all but the most weakly armoured, or open cabin, vehicles.
+
[[File:GarageImage_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|420px|thumb|left]]
 +
{{break}}
 +
The '''{{Specs|name}}''' (shortened as '''{{Specs|pseudonym}}''') is a gift rank {{Specs|rank}} French tank destroyer {{Battle-rating|1}}. It was introduced in [[Update 1.77 "Advancing Storm"]] during the [[wt:en/news/5453-special-chronicles-of-world-war-ii-in-war-thunder-en|2018 WW2 Chronicles]].
  
−
=== Vehicles equipped with this weapon ===
+
== General info ==
−
<!-- ''List out vehicles that are equipped with the weapon.'' -->
+
=== Survivability and armour ===
−
The BESA machine gun is fitted as the co-axial (and sometimes commander's) weapon on nearly every British tank from rank 1 to rank 4.
+
<!--''Describe armour protection. Note the most well protected and key weak areas. Appreciate the layout of modules as well as the number and location of crew members. Is the level of armour protection sufficient, is the placement of modules helpful for survival in combat?''-->
 +
The Lorraine 155 Mle.50 has very little armour (although some are sloped enough to deflect certain low-rank rounds), and can generally be penetrated by most guns of its rank. Even worse, however, the 'casemate' (if it can even be called that) has very little armour, and in some places can be shot through with machine guns. The machine-gunner (operating the 151) is completely open to the elements. Generally, you want to rely on good map placement and mobility, rather than armour.
 +
 
 +
'''Armour type:'''
  
−
The [[Mk.VIA AA]] is the only British tank to use the weapon as it's primary armament.
+
* Rolled homogeneous armour
 +
* Structural steel
  
−
{{Navigation-Start|Vehicles equipped with this weapon}}
+
{| class="wikitable"
−
{{Navigation-Line|Armoured Car}}{{Specs-Link|uk_daimler_mk_2}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_armored_car_aec_mk_2}}
+
|-
−
{{Navigation-Line|Crusader}}{{Specs-Link|uk_crusader_mk_2}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_crusader_mk_3}}
+
! Armour !! Front (Slope angle) !! Sides !! Rear !! Roof
−
{{Navigation-Line|Cromwell}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a27m_cromwell_1}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a27m_cromwell_5}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a27m_cromwell_5_rp3}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_33_excelsior}}
+
|-
−
{{Navigation-Line|Valentine}}{{Specs-Link|uk_valentine_mk_1}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_valentine_mk_11}}
+
| Hull || 16 mm (70°) ''Front glacis'' <br> 16 mm (2-73°) ''Transmission housing'' || 16 mm || 10 mm (0-42°) || 10 mm
−
{{Navigation-Line|Churchill}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_22_mk_1_churchill_1941}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_22b_mk_3_churchill_1942}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_22f_mk_7_churchill_1944}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|germ_infanterie_kampfpanzer_churchill}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_43_black_prince}}
+
|-
−
{{Navigation-Line|Comet}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_34_comet}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_34_comet_iron_duke}}
+
| Superstructure || 16 mm (21°) ''Front'' <br> 10 mm ''Gun shield'' || 16 mm (30°) ''Right side'' <br> 16 mm (21-48°) ''Left side'' || 10 mm || 10 mm
−
{{Navigation-Line|Centurion}}{{Specs-Link|uk_centurion_mk_1}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_centurion_mk_3}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_centurion_mk_3_ss11}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_fv221_caernarvon}}
+
|-
−
{{Navigation-Line|Other}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a17_mk_1_tetrarch}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_vickers_mk_6_aa_mk_1}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a_12_mk_2_matilda_2}}{{-}}{{Specs-Link|uk_a39_tortoise}}
+
! Armour !! Sides !! Roof
−
{{Navigation-End}}
+
|-
 +
| Cupola || 10 mm || N/A
 +
|}
 +
'''Notes:'''
  
−
== General info ==
+
* Suspension wheels are 10 mm thick while tracks, sprocket wheels, torsion bars, and return rollers are 20 mm thick.
−
<!-- ''Tell us about the tactical and technical characteristics of the cannon or machine gun.'' -->
+
* Belly armour is 10 mm thick.
−
The BESA machine gun performs slightly better than other British co-axial machine guns, with the same rate of fire as guns like the [[L3A1 (7.62 mm)]] and [[L8A1 (7.62 mm)]], but marginally better penetration.
+
* Gun breech is 300mm thick, while the barrel itself is 25mm.
 +
* Gun carriage around the gun is 20mm thick, while the gun mount/traverse device is 40mm thick.
  
−
=== Available shells ===
+
=== Mobility ===
−
<!-- ''Describe the shells that are available for the cannon and their features and purpose. If it concerns autocannons or machine guns, write about different ammo belts and what is inside (which types of shells).'' -->
+
<!-- ''Write about the mobility of the ground vehicle. Estimate the specific power and manoeuvrability, as well as the maximum speed forwards and backwards.'' -->
−
When fitted as a secondary machine gun (usually co-axially) the BESA can only be equipped with one ammo belt consisting of two Armour Piercing Incendiary (AP-I) bullets, followed by one Armour Piercing Tracer (AP-T) bullet. Neither bullet has much penetration (10 mm - 13 mm). However, the AP-T bullet performs slightly better than the AP-I bullet.
 
  
−
When fitted as the primary armament on the [[Mk.VIA AA]] the BESA gains several different belts. These are:
+
{{tankMobility|abMinHp= 639|rbMinHp= 398}}
  
−
* '''Default:''' Ball - Tracer (T) - Incendiary Tracer (IT)
+
== Armaments ==
−
* '''Universal:''' Armour Piercing (AP) - Tracer (T) - Incendiary Tracer (IT) - Ball
+
=== Main armament ===
−
* '''API-T:''' Incendiary Tracer (IT) - Incendiary Tracer (IT) - Armour Piercing (AP) - Tracer (T)
+
<!--''Give the reader information about the characteristics of the main gun. Assess its effectiveness in a battle based on the reloading speed, ballistics and the power of shells. Do not forget about the flexibility of the fire, that is how quickly the cannon can be aimed at the target, open fire on it and aim at another enemy. Add a link to the main article on the gun: <code><nowiki>{{main|Name of the weapon}}</nowiki></code>. Describe in general terms the ammunition available for the main gun. Give advice on how to use them and how to fill the ammunition storage.''-->
−
* '''AP-T:''' Armour Piercing (AP) - Armour Piercing (AP) - Incendiary Tracer (IT) - Tracer (T)
+
{{main|L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950 howitzer (155 mm)|l1=L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950 (155 mm)}}
  
−
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
+
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
−
! colspan="10" | Penetration statistics
+
|-
 +
! colspan="6" | [[L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950 howitzer (155 mm)|155 mm L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950]]
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity
 +
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 +
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 +
! rowspan="1" | Stabilizer
 +
|-
 +
| colspan="3" | 30 || -5°/+67° || ±20° || N/A
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="6" | Turret rotation speed (°/s)
 +
|-
 +
! style="width:4em" |Mode
 +
! style="width:4em" |Stock
 +
! style="width:4em" |Upgraded
 +
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 +
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 +
! style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
|-
 
|-
−
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
+
| ''Arcade'' || 5.27 || 7.31 || 8.88 || 9.82 || 10.45
−
! colspan="8" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 90°'''
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
! 10m
+
| ''Realistic'' || 3.57 || 4.2 || 5.1 || 5.64 || 6.0
−
! 100m
 
−
! 500m
 
−
! 1,000m
 
−
! 1,450m
 
−
! 1,500m
 
−
! 2,000m
 
−
! 2,500m
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP-I || 10 || 9 || 7 || 4 || 1 || 0 || N/A || N/A
+
! colspan="4" | Reloading rate (seconds)
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP-T || 13 || 12 || 7 || 2 || N/A || 1 || N/A || N/A
+
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Stock
 +
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Full crew
 +
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Expert qualif.
 +
! colspan="1" style="width:4em" |Prior + Ace qualif.
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="10" | Anti-Aircraft version on [[Mk.VIA AA]]
+
| 26.0 || 23.0 || 21.2 || 20.0
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ball || 8 || 7 || 5 || 3 || N/A || 2 || 2 || 1
+
|}
 +
 
 +
===== Ammunition =====
 +
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 +
! colspan="8" | Penetration statistics
 
|-
 
|-
−
| T || 8 || 7 || 5 || 3 || N/A || 2 || 2 || 1
+
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 +
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 +
! colspan="6" | '''Penetration''' '''''in mm''''' '''@ 0° Angle of Attack'''
 
|-
 
|-
−
| IT || 3.5 || 3.3 || 3.2 || 3.0 || 0.1 || 0 || N/A || N/A
+
! 10m
 +
! 100m
 +
! 500m
 +
! 1000m
 +
! 1500m
 +
! 2000m
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP || 13 || 11 || 9 || 7 || N/A || 4 || 2 || 1
+
| M107 || HE || 54 || 54 || 54 || 54 || 54 || 54
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
 
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center" width="100%"
−
! colspan="10" | Shell details
+
! colspan="11" | Shell details
 
|-
 
|-
 
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 
! rowspan="2" data-sort-type="text" | Ammunition
 +
! rowspan="2" class="unsortable" | Type of <br /> warhead
 
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
! rowspan="2" |Velocity <br /> in m/s
 
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 
! rowspan="2" |Projectile<br />Mass in kg
Line 93: Line 118:
 
! 100%
 
! 100%
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP-I || 880 || 0.0102 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
| M107 || HE || 563 || 43.1 || 0.1 || 0.1 || 6,860 || +0° || 79° || 80° || 81°
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP-T || 905 || 0.0100 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
|}
 +
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align:center"
 +
! colspan="7" | Smoke characteristic
 
|-
 
|-
−
! colspan="10" | Anti-Aircraft version on [[Mk.VIA AA]]
+
! Ammunition
 +
! Velocity <br /> in m/s
 +
! Projectile<br />Mass in kg
 +
! ''Screen radius <br /> in m''
 +
! ''Screen time <br /> in s''
 +
! ''Screen hold time <br /> in s:''
 +
! ''Explosive Mass in g<br /> (TNT equivalent):''
 
|-
 
|-
−
| ball || 847 || 0.0120 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
| M110 || 563 || 40.8 || 25 || 5 || 30 || 50
 
|-
 
|-
−
| T || 847 || 0.0100 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
|}
 +
 
 +
===== [[Ammo racks|Ammo racks]] =====
 +
[[File:Ammoracks_{{PAGENAME}}.jpg|right|thumbnail|x250px|Ammo racks of the {{PAGENAME}}.]]
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 
|-
 
|-
−
| IT || 771 || 0.0079 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
! Full<br /> ammo
 +
! 1st<br />  rack empty
 +
! 2nd<br />  rack empty
 +
! 3rd<br />  rack empty
 +
! 4th<br />  rack empty
 +
! 5th<br />  rack empty
 +
! 6th<br />  rack empty
 +
! 7th <br /> rack empty
 +
! 8th <br /> rack empty
 +
! Visual discrepancy
 
|-
 
|-
−
| AP || 783 || 0.0110 || N/A || N/A || N/A || ??° || ??° || ??° || ??°
+
|| '''30''' || 29&nbsp;''(+1)'' || 27 ''(+3)'' || 23&nbsp;''(+7)'' || 18&nbsp;''(+12)'' || 15&nbsp;''(+15)'' || 9&nbsp;''(+21)'' ||6&nbsp;''(+24)''||1&nbsp;''(+29)''|| style="text-align:left" | No
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}
  
−
=== Comparison with analogues ===
+
'''Notes:'''
−
<!-- ''Give a comparative description of cannons/machine guns, that have firepower equal to these type of weapons.'' -->
+
 
−
The BESA performs favourably to the [[L3A1 (7.62 mm)|L3A1]], [[L8A1 (7.62 mm)|L8A1]], and [[L8A2 (7.62 mm)|L8A2]] found on later British tanks. It has the same rate of fire as these weapons but better penetration. It has slightly lower rate of fire than the [[L37A1 (7.62 mm)|L37A1]] and [[L37A2 (7.62 mm)|L37A2]], but slightly higher penetration.
+
* Recommended ammo load: '''10'''.  ''Keeps most ammunition in the floor and out of sponsons.''
 +
 
 +
=== Machine guns ===
 +
<!--''Offensive and anti-aircraft machine guns not only allow you to fight some aircraft but also are effective against lightly armoured vehicles. Evaluate machine guns and give recommendations on its use.''-->
 +
{{main|MG 151/20 (20 mm)}}
 +
 
 +
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="7" | [[MG 151/20 (20 mm)|20 mm MG151/20]]
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="7" | ''Commander's mount''
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="4" rowspan="1" style="width:5em" |Capacity (Belt capacity)
 +
! rowspan="1" | Fire rate <br> (shots/minute)
 +
! rowspan="1" | Vertical <br> guidance
 +
! rowspan="1" | Horizontal <br> guidance
 +
|-
 +
| colspan="4" | 400 (250) || 700 || -8°/+45° || ±180°
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
 
== Usage in battles ==
 
== Usage in battles ==
−
<!-- ''Describe the cannon/machine gun in the game - its distinctive features, tactics of usage against the main opponents. Please don't write a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view, but give the reader food for thought.'' -->
+
<!--''Describe the tactics of playing in the vehicle, the features of using vehicles in the team and advice on tactics. Refrain from creating a "guide" - do not impose a single point of view but give the reader food for thought. Describe the most dangerous enemies and give recommendations on fighting them. If necessary, note the specifics of the game in different modes (AB, RB, SB).''-->
−
Due to the low penetration this weapon it is largely ineffective against enemy armour (although you may be able to penetrate some vehicles with extremely thing armour). The gun is primarily useful for killing exposed crew members in open-topped vehicles, and SPAA, which can be fairly common at some places in the wide the range battle ratings this gun is found at. Another function for this gun is rangefinding, as well as marking enemy vehicles and obscuring the view of enemy players (shooting at their gun sight). You can use the gun against aircraft however it does minimal damage and is usually co-axially mounted, making hitting aircraft difficult.
+
The best method of using the large-calibre weapon on the Loraine is to exploit the high-explosive power against thin-armour on the enemy. Like other large calibre HE tanks, shooting below an enemy vehicle will penetrate its belly armor. This is an effective, albeit difficult way to engage tanks whose armor is greater than what your HE shell can penetrate.
 +
 
 +
Some targets to keep in mind of, and their weak points:
 +
 
 +
* Tiger I - While seemingly a hard enemy to face, the Tiger is easily dispatched with a side shot. A hit to the roadwheels will penetrate the tank, with the shell fragments going through the thin armor on the underside of the tank's sponson. This is also possible to do to Tiger IIs, but usually results in much less damage done.
 +
* Tiger II P, Panthers D and A - a hit to the bottom of the curved turret face of these tanks will cause the HE shell to pen the roof of the vehicle. This can also be done on tanks with flat turret fronts ( Tiger I, Tiger II H, Panthers G and F) by aiming for the lower half of the turret, but is not as reliable.  
 +
 
 +
=== Modules ===
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
! Tier
 +
! colspan="2" | Mobility
 +
! Protection
 +
! colspan="2" | Firepower
 +
|-
 +
| I
 +
| Tracks
 +
|
 +
| Parts
 +
| Horizontal Drive
 +
| M110
 +
|-
 +
| II
 +
| Suspension
 +
| Brake System
 +
| FPE
 +
| Adjustment of Fire
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| III
 +
| Filters
 +
|
 +
| Crew Replenishment
 +
| Elevation Mechanism
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| IV
 +
| Transmission
 +
| Engine
 +
|
 +
|
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
! colspan="6" |This is a premium vehicle: all modifications are unlocked on purchase
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
 
=== Pros and cons ===
 
=== Pros and cons ===
−
<!-- ''Summarize and briefly evaluate the weaponry in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark pros and cons as a list.'' -->
+
<!--''Summarize and briefly evaluate the vehicle in terms of its characteristics and combat effectiveness. Mark its pros and cons in a bulleted list. Try not to use more than 6 points for each of the characteristics. Avoid using categorical definitions such as "bad", "good" and the like - they have a substitution in the form of softer "inadequate", "effective".''-->
−
 
 
 
'''Pros:'''
 
'''Pros:'''
−
* Better penetration than other co-axial machine guns found on British tanks
 
−
* Decent rate of fire
 
−
* No particularity weak shells in ammo belt unlike other co-axial machine guns
 
  
 +
* Powerful 155mm gun with a HE shell on-par with the KV-2's gun
 +
* Pintle-mounted 20mm cannon that is deadly to lightly-armoured vehicles and aircraft
 +
* Decent mobility
 +
* Good reverse speed
  
 
'''Cons:'''
 
'''Cons:'''
−
* Low penetration
+
 
−
* Low damage
+
* Thin armor with an open casemate, allows even rifle-calibre rounds to affect the crew
−
* Lower rate of fire than [[L37A1 (7.62 mm)|L37A1]] and [[L37A2 (7.62 mm)|L37A2]]
+
* Despite thin armor, it's thick enough to trigger most fuses in APHE shells
 +
* Large profile
 +
* Long reload time; increases if the loader is taken out
 +
* If the machine-gunner is knocked out, so is the ability to use the 20mm cannon
 +
* No AP shells, only HE shells
 +
* Bad gun depression of 5°
  
 
== History ==
 
== History ==
−
<!-- ''Examine the history of the creation and combat usage of this weapon. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(weapon-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article.'' -->
+
<!--''Describe the history of the creation and combat usage of the ground vehicle in more detail than in the introduction. If the historical reference turns out to be too big, take it to a separate article, taking a link to an article about the vehicle and adding a block "/ History" (example: <nowiki>https://wiki.warthunder.com/(Vehicle-name)/History</nowiki>) and add a link to it here using the <code>main</code> template. Be sure to reference text and sources by using <code><nowiki><ref></nowiki></code>, as well as adding them at the end of the article.''-->
−
The BESA machine gun it is a license-built variant of the Czechoslovakian ZB-53 machine gun. The British War Office ordered the weapon in 1938, and production began in 1939. In the UK the gun was produced by the Birmingham Small Arms Company the initialism of which (BSA) gave the gun its name. The ZB-53 had been designed to use the German 7.92 × 57 mm Mauser round, and the British originally intended to modify it in order to use the same .303 (7.7 mm) ammunition as other British rifles and machine guns; however it was later decided that converting the gun would take more time and effort than maintaining the original calibre and procuring the 7.92 mm ammunition. A side effect of this was that the British were able to utilise captured German 7.92 mm ammunition.
+
Prototypes of the Lorraine 155 Mle.50 passed trials in 1950, but never reached production.
 +
 
 +
== Media ==
 +
<!-- ''Excellent additions to the article would be video guides, screenshots from the game, and photos.'' -->
  
−
The from 1939 the BESA machine gun became the standard British machine gun for tanks and other armoured vehicles (hence the widespread presence in the British tank tree), replacing the [[Vickers (7.7 mm)|Vickers Machine Gun]]. In June 1940 the improved BESA Mk II became available, featuring a selector to allow the operator to choose between a higher rate of fire for close combat or focused targets and a lower rate of fire for long-range combat or area targets. Several further versions of the BESA were produced up until 1966. The early models of the BESA were deemed obsolete in 1951, with later model guns remaining in service until the late 1960s.
+
;Skins
 +
* [https://live.warthunder.com/feed/camouflages/?vehicleCountry=france&vehicleType=tank&vehicleClass=tank_destroyer&vehicle=fr_lorraine_155 Skin and Camouflages for the {{PAGENAME}} from live.warthunder.com.]
  
−
== Media ==
+
;Videos
−
''An excellent addition to the article would be a video guide, as well as screenshots from the game and photos.''
+
{{Youtube-gallery|YZtAEsSpwNM|'''The Shooting Range #96''' - ''Metal Beasts'' section at 00:39 discusses the Lorraine 155 Mle.50.|_xCgMBOiA8U|'''High-explosive power''' discusses the {{PAGENAME}} at 0:50 - ''War Thunder Official Channel''}}
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
 
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
 
''Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:''
−
* ''reference to the article about the variant of the cannon/machine gun;''
+
 
−
* ''references to approximate analogues by other nations and research trees.''
+
* ''reference to the series of the vehicles;''
 +
* ''links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.''
  
 
== External links ==
 
== External links ==
−
<!-- ''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
+
<!--''Paste links to sources and external resources, such as:''
 +
 
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
 
* ''topic on the official game forum;''
−
* ''encyclopedia page on weapon;''
+
* ''encyclopedia page on tank;''
−
* ''other literature.'' -->
+
* ''other literature.''-->
−
* [[wikipedia:Besa_machine_gun|Wikipedia - Besa machine gun]]
 
  
−
{{Britain and USA anti-aircraft guns}}
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* [[Wikipedia:Obusier_de_155_mm_Mod%C3%A8le_50|[Wikipedia<nowiki>]</nowiki> Obusier de 155mm Modèle 50 (The gun)]]
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{{Tank machine guns}}
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* [[Wikipedia:AMX-50#Char_Lorraine|[Wikipedia<nowiki>]</nowiki> AMX-50 - Char Lorraine (The chassis)]]
  
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[[Category:Tank machine guns]]
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{{France tank destroyers}}
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[[Category:Anti-aircraft guns]]
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{{France premium ground vehicles}}

Revision as of 21:48, 15 August 2020

Lorraine 155 Mle.50
fr_lorraine_155.png
Lorraine 155 Mle.50
France flag.png France
III Rank
Battle rating:
AB RB SB
4.3 4.3 4.3
Class:
PREMIUM
Purchase:Bundle or Gift
Show in game

Description

GarageImage Lorraine 155 Mle.50.jpg


The Lorraine automoteur de 155 mm modèle 1950 (shortened as Lorraine 155 Mle.50) is a gift rank III French tank destroyer with a battle rating of 4.3 (AB/RB/SB). It was introduced in Update 1.77 "Advancing Storm" during the 2018 WW2 Chronicles.

General info

Survivability and armour

The Lorraine 155 Mle.50 has very little armour (although some are sloped enough to deflect certain low-rank rounds), and can generally be penetrated by most guns of its rank. Even worse, however, the 'casemate' (if it can even be called that) has very little armour, and in some places can be shot through with machine guns. The machine-gunner (operating the 151) is completely open to the elements. Generally, you want to rely on good map placement and mobility, rather than armour.

Armour type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Structural steel
Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 16 mm (70°) Front glacis
16 mm (2-73°) Transmission housing 		16 mm 10 mm (0-42°) 10 mm
Superstructure 16 mm (21°) Front
10 mm Gun shield 		16 mm (30°) Right side
16 mm (21-48°) Left side 		10 mm 10 mm
Armour Sides Roof
Cupola 10 mm N/A

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels are 10 mm thick while tracks, sprocket wheels, torsion bars, and return rollers are 20 mm thick.
  • Belly armour is 10 mm thick.
  • Gun breech is 300mm thick, while the barrel itself is 25mm.
  • Gun carriage around the gun is 20mm thick, while the gun mount/traverse device is 40mm thick.

Mobility

Game Mode Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse Stock Upgraded Stock Upgraded
Arcade 60 16 30 639 1,145 21.3 38.17
Realistic 55 15 398 600 13.27 20

Armaments

Main armament

Main article: L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950 (155 mm)
155 mm L'Obusier de 155 Modèle 1950
Capacity Vertical
guidance 		Horizontal
guidance 		Stabilizer
30 -5°/+67° ±20° N/A
Turret rotation speed (°/s)
Mode Stock Upgraded Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
Arcade 5.27 7.31 8.88 9.82 10.45
Realistic 3.57 4.2 5.1 5.64 6.0
Reloading rate (seconds)
Stock Prior + Full crew Prior + Expert qualif. Prior + Ace qualif.
26.0 23.0 21.2 20.0
Ammunition
Penetration statistics
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Penetration in mm @ 0° Angle of Attack
10m 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
M107 HE 54 54 54 54 54 54
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead 		Velocity
in m/s 		Projectile
Mass in kg 		Fuse delay

in m:

Fuse sensitivity

in mm:

Explosive Mass in g
(TNT equivalent): 		Normalization At 30°
from horizontal: 		Ricochet:
0% 50% 100%
M107 HE 563 43.1 0.1 0.1 6,860 +0° 79° 80° 81°
Smoke characteristic
Ammunition Velocity
in m/s 		Projectile
Mass in kg 		Screen radius
in m 		Screen time
in s 		Screen hold time
in s: 		Explosive Mass in g
(TNT equivalent):
M110 563 40.8 25 5 30 50
Ammo racks
Ammo racks of the Lorraine 155 Mle.50.
Full
ammo 		1st
rack empty 		2nd
rack empty 		3rd
rack empty 		4th
rack empty 		5th
rack empty 		6th
rack empty 		7th
rack empty 		8th
rack empty 		Visual discrepancy
30 29 (+1) 27 (+3) 23 (+7) 18 (+12) 15 (+15) 9 (+21) 6 (+24) 1 (+29) No

Notes:

  • Recommended ammo load: 10. Keeps most ammunition in the floor and out of sponsons.

Machine guns

Main article: MG 151/20 (20 mm)
20 mm MG151/20
Commander's mount
Capacity (Belt capacity) Fire rate
(shots/minute) 		Vertical
guidance 		Horizontal
guidance
400 (250) 700 -8°/+45° ±180°

Usage in battles

The best method of using the large-calibre weapon on the Loraine is to exploit the high-explosive power against thin-armour on the enemy. Like other large calibre HE tanks, shooting below an enemy vehicle will penetrate its belly armor. This is an effective, albeit difficult way to engage tanks whose armor is greater than what your HE shell can penetrate.

Some targets to keep in mind of, and their weak points:

  • Tiger I - While seemingly a hard enemy to face, the Tiger is easily dispatched with a side shot. A hit to the roadwheels will penetrate the tank, with the shell fragments going through the thin armor on the underside of the tank's sponson. This is also possible to do to Tiger IIs, but usually results in much less damage done.
  • Tiger II P, Panthers D and A - a hit to the bottom of the curved turret face of these tanks will cause the HE shell to pen the roof of the vehicle. This can also be done on tanks with flat turret fronts ( Tiger I, Tiger II H, Panthers G and F) by aiming for the lower half of the turret, but is not as reliable.

Modules

Tier Mobility Protection Firepower
I Tracks Parts Horizontal Drive M110
II Suspension Brake System FPE Adjustment of Fire
III Filters Crew Replenishment Elevation Mechanism
IV Transmission Engine
This is a premium vehicle: all modifications are unlocked on purchase

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Powerful 155mm gun with a HE shell on-par with the KV-2's gun
  • Pintle-mounted 20mm cannon that is deadly to lightly-armoured vehicles and aircraft
  • Decent mobility
  • Good reverse speed

Cons:

  • Thin armor with an open casemate, allows even rifle-calibre rounds to affect the crew
  • Despite thin armor, it's thick enough to trigger most fuses in APHE shells
  • Large profile
  • Long reload time; increases if the loader is taken out
  • If the machine-gunner is knocked out, so is the ability to use the 20mm cannon
  • No AP shells, only HE shells
  • Bad gun depression of 5°

History

Prototypes of the Lorraine 155 Mle.50 passed trials in 1950, but never reached production.

Media

Skins
Videos
The Shooting Range #96 - Metal Beasts section at 00:39 discusses the Lorraine 155 Mle.50.
High-explosive power discusses the Lorraine 155 Mle.50 at 0:50 - War Thunder Official Channel

See also

Links to the articles on the War Thunder Wiki that you think will be useful for the reader, for example:

  • reference to the series of the vehicles;
  • links to approximate analogues of other nations and research trees.

External links


France tank destroyers
Lorraine 40t derivatives  CA Lorraine · Lorraine 155 Mle.50
ATGM  MEPHISTO · AMX-10M
Other  AMR.35 ZT3 · Lorraine 37L · SAu 40 · ARL-44 · ELC bis · AMX-50 Foch · AuF1
USA  ▄M10 GMC · ▄M36B2

France premium ground vehicles
Light tanks  AMD.35 (SA35) · H.39 "Cambronne" · LVT-4/40 · AMX-13 (SS.11) · AMX-13-M24 · E.B.R. (1954) · E.B.R. (1963) · VBCI-2 (MCT30)
Medium tanks  M4A1 (FL10) · Panther "Dauphiné" · AMX-30 · AMX-30 Super · AMX-50 (TO90/930)
Heavy tanks  B1 ter · 2C bis · Somua SM
Tank destroyers  Lorraine 155 Mle.50

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