17 pounder Self-Propelled M10

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Arcade Realistic Simulator

Arcade Realistic Simulator

Arcade Realistic Simulator

General info

The 17-pdr Achilles in the garage.

The 17 pounder Self-Propelled M10 (often M10 Achilles, officially 17 pounder, Self-Propelled M10 Achilles) is a Rank III British tank destroyer with a battle rating of 4.0. It was introduced in Update 1.55 "Royal Armour" along with the rest of the British Ground Forces Tree.

The main purpose, usage and tactics recommendations

General play style

The Achilles is based on the American M10, but carries 17-pounder as the main armament, making it an effective tank destroyer. Thanks to a well assigned BR you won't feel in the wrong game even when facing higher rank tanks. For a Battle Rating 4.0, you have a plenty of firepower, especially once you have unlocked the Mk.8 APCBC shot, which is more effective against the T-34 sloped armour. The 17-pdr literally cuts through enemy Panzer III and IV (the shots enter the front and exit from the rear) so try to aim vital points to cause the maximum damage (first shot to the turret to disable enemy firepower). The T-34 is a bigger problem due to its sloped armour. When facing Russians your first shot should be always to the gunner. The Mk.8 APCBC is quite able to penetrate the T-34 glacis even from distance but keep in mind that the damage you'll cause is unreliable (sometimes 3 or more shots are required to destroy a T-34, sometimes one shot is enough). The M10 mobility is not outstanding but the Achilles is pretty capable to carry you where you want to go.

Protection is not good. The sloped armour and the track links added to the front will protect you from some low calibre shots but the vast majority of your enemies'll be able to easily destroy you. Side armour is paper thin. The high profile and the very slow turret traverse (man powered) are not good for close range combat so avoid deep flanking tactics.

Vehicle characteristics

This vehicle appears like any M10, except for the gun and to a lesser extent, the gun mantle. The gun is noticeably longer and has a muzzle break, while the gun mantle is more angular than normal. Other than that, it is a typical M10.

Tactics

The Achilles is best used for sniping and for shoot and scoot tactics. Find a good spot where to shoot at enemies, aim carefully (RB need a good use of mils range estimation) and enjoy the fireworks!

Keep in mind the low fire rate (compared to other 17-pdr AFVs). Once you have destroyed (or damaged) the enemy the best thing to do is to relocate. Don't stay in the same spot for too long: you have weak armour and open top. Artillery barrages will cripple your TD and kill your crew.

Another thing to think about is the turret traverse. Yes... It is really slow. Therefore, you need to make some changes to your play style. If you need to target an enemy quickly, do not rely on the turret. Instead, traverse the entire tank so that your hull is facing the enemy head on, similar to turretless, casemate style tank destroyers. To avoid situations like this, you should stay way back, avoiding urban areas and other areas where you will be flanked easily.

The Achilles performs very well on large maps with plenty of vegetation or terrain variations to hide in. On maps like this you can find a good hiding place and wait for enemy tanks to drive into your sights. Even the most heavily armoured tanks in your BR range cannot withstand the APCBC round. It is this tanks most redeeming factor. A well positioned Achilles can deal heavy damage to an opposing team, and can even hold out an entire section of the map if it is protected from air support and can get the jump on attacking enemies. Remember to change position regularly as you will become easy prey for enemy aircraft if your position is compromised.

Also, remember to use your .50 cal. It can disorientate enemy tanks and potentially give you a few extra seconds breathing room in a bad situation. It is also useful against SPAA and low flying aircraft. Be aware that if your commander is killed, you will lose access to the .50 cal

Specific enemies worth noting

Counter-tactics

Pros and cons

Pros:

  • Good gun (17-pounder!)
  • High level of penetration. Will often pass through the front of lighter vehicles and leave through the back.
  • Good speed
  • 5 crew members
  • .50 cal Heavy machine gun on top to fight lightly armoured tanks and aircraft
  • Sloped armour makes incoming rounds more likely to ricochet
  • Spare tracks that provided some limited protection on the front and on the rear section of the side armour.
  • Good gun depression

Cons:

  • Armour is rather thin
  • Big ammo racks
  • Open top turret makes it vulnerable to artillery and strafing planes
  • Very slow turret traverse
  • Will have trouble penetrating some sloped armour before the Shot Mk.8 is purchased
  • Lack of explosive filler for AP shells
  • Handling is poor on some rough terrain before mobility modifications are researched
  • Reverse speed is bad
  • Low ammo reserve for Commander's machine gun (300 rds total)

Specifications

Arcade Realistic Simulator

Arcade Realistic Simulator

Arcade Realistic Simulator

Armaments

1 x 76.2 mm QF 17-pounder cannon (50 Rounds)
1 x 12.7 mm Browning M2HB heavy machine gun (300 rounds)

Main armament

1 x 76.2 mm QF 17-pounder cannon
  • Ammunition Capacity: 50 Shells
  • Gun Depression: -10°
  • Gun Elevation: 30°
  • Turret Rotation Speed: 2.7°/s (Stock), 3.7°/s (Upgraded), _._°/s (Prior + Full Crew), _._°/s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), _._°/s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
  • Reload Rate: 8.7s (Stock), __._s (Full Crew), __._s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), __._s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
1 x 76.2 mm QF 17-pounder cannon
  • Ammunition Capacity: 50 Shells
  • Gun Depression: -10°
  • Gun Elevation: 30°
  • Turret Rotation Speed: 2.7°/s (Stock), 3.1°/s (Upgraded), _._°/s (Prior + Full Crew), _._°/s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), _._°/s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
  • Reload Rate: 8.7s (Stock), __._s (Full Crew), __._s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), __._s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
1 x 76.2 mm QF 17-pounder cannon
  • Ammunition Capacity: 50 Shells
  • Gun Depression: -10°
  • Gun Elevation: 30°
  • Turret Rotation Speed: 2.7°/s (Stock), 3.1°/s (Upgraded), _._°/s (Prior + Full Crew), _._°/s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), _._°/s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
  • Reload Rate: 8.7s (Stock), __._s (Full Crew), __._s (Prior + Expert Qualif.), __._s (Prior + Ace Qualif.)
Ammunition
Ammunition Penetration in mm @ 90° Type of
warhead
Velocity
in m/s
Projectile
Mass in kg
Fuse delay
in m:
Fuse sensitivity
in mm:
Explosive Mass in
TNT equivalent
in g:
Normalization At 30°
from horizontal:
Ricochet:
10m 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m 0% 50% 100%
Shot Mk.6 160 157 133 112 96 86 AP 883 7.7 N/A N/A N/A -1° 43° 30° 25°
Shell Mk.1 9 9 9 9 9 9 HE 883 7.0 0.4 0.5 580 +0° 11° 10°
Shot Mk.4 165 160 138 108 94 81 APC 883 7.7 N/A N/A N/A -1° 42° 27° 19°
Shot Mk.8 171 168 156 143 130 120 APCBC 883 7.7 N/A N/A N/A +4° 42° 27° 19°
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Velocity
in m/s
Projectile
Mass in kg
Screen radius
in m
Screen time
in s
Screen hold time
in s:
Explosive Mass in
TNT equivalent
in g:
17pdr Shell SS Mk.1 Smoke 754 8.4 13 5 20 50
Ammo Racks
Ammo rack of the Achilles.
Full
ammo
1st
rack empty
2nd
rack empty
3rd
rack empty
4th
rack empty
5th
rack empty
6th
rack empty
Recommendations Visual
discrepancy
50 48 (+2) 45 (+5) 34 (+16) 23 (+27) 12 (+38) (+49) Turret empty: 45 (+5) Yes

Secondary armament

1 x 12.7 mm Browning M2HB heavy machine gun (pintle mount)

Crew

  • Commander
  • Gunner
  • Loader
  • Driver
  • Assistant Driver

Total: 5 Crew members

Armour

Armour Type:

  • Rolled homogeneous armour
  • Cast homogeneous armour (Gun mantlet, Transmission area)
  • Structural steel (Counterweight)
Armour Front Sides Rear Roof
Hull 38.1 mm (55°) Front glacis
50.8 mm (7-55°) Transmission area
19.05 mm (38°) Top hull
25.4 mm Bottom hull
19.05 (28-33°) Top Hull
25.4 mm (7-52°) Bottom hull
19.05 mm Front
9.5 mm Rear
Turret 25.4 mm (66-88°) Turret front
57.15 mm (0-47°) Gun mantlet
25.4 mm (22-46°) 25.4 mm (0-29°) Turret rear
50 mm (0-50°) Counterweight
N/A

Notes:

  • Suspension wheels and tracks are 20 mm thick while the bogies are 10 mm thick.
  • Belly armour is 12.7 mm thick.
  • Hull rear sides are protected by attached grousers that gives 20 mm of extra armour.
  • Tracks placed on the front transmission area provide 30 mm extra armour.

Engine & mobility

Weight: 29.6 ton (+ 0.3t Add-on Armour)

Max Speed: 45 km/h
Stock

  • Engine Power: 582 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 19.66 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 40°

Upgraded

  • Engine Power: 717 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 24.22 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 43°
Weight: 29.6 ton (+ 0.3t Add-on Armour)

Max Speed: 41 km/h
Stock

  • Engine Power: 363 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 12.26 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 40°

Upgraded

  • Engine Power: 410 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 13.85 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 41°
Weight: 29.6 ton (+ 0.3t Add-on Armour)

Max Speed: 41 km/h
Stock

  • Engine Power: 363 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 12.26 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 40°

Upgraded

  • Engine Power: 410 hp @ 2900 rpm
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 13.85 hp/ton
  • Maximum Inclination: 41°

Modules and improvements

As per usual, Parts and FPE should be the focus first for modifications to increase combat survivability. Everything else is fair game after you get those two.

History of creation and combat usage

Development

The M10 tank destroyer was developed in 1942 to fulfill the anti-tank doctrine established by the US military. The doctrine, creating the tank destroyer force, was established with the objective to stop German blitzkrieg tactics by attacking the tanks. Unlike the other armoured fighting vehicles in the theater, the tank destroyers were made to be placed in reserves to counter any breach in the front lines by taking out the enemy with ambushes. This role led to the desire for a fast vehicle with a powerful gun, armour was not a concern due to the emphasis in speed. The design ended up taking a turret design developed from the M6A1 Heavy Tank and the body from the M4A2 Sherman, this with the 3-inch 1918 gun, provided the backbone of the American tank destroyer force in much of World War II. In total, 6,706 M10s and its variants were produced between September of 1942 to 1943 of the same month.

British use

These M10s were given out to America’s allies, though the British were the most well-known of these users, receiving about 1,650 M10s from the Americans from 1943 onward. The British designated the M10s under their service as the ‘’’Achilles’’’ and unlike popular usage, was called that for both the 3-inch gun variant (‘’Achillies I/II’’) and the variant mounting the 17-pounder (‘’Achillies Ic / IIc’’). Though in most usage, the vehicle was called the ‘’17pdr M10’’, or ‘’17pdr SP M10’’, or even the ‘’“Firefly”’’, despite that name being used for a different design.

The British first received the M10s with the 3-inch cannons, which were much more powerful than the British tank armament at the time, giving them an edge in many tank confrontations in the North African Campaign. It was around 1943 that a conversion is done onto the M10 to increase its firepower capabilities against the gradually upgraded German tank designs such as the Tiger I and the Panthers. The conversion used one of the best Allied anti-tank guns at the time, the 17-pounder, which could penetrate about 140 mm of armour at 500 meters away with APCBC rounds, and 209 mm at the same distance with APDS rounds (Armour-Penetrating Discarding Sabot). The conversion done onto the M10 also required a counterweight to be placed on the 17-pounder to compensate the heavier weight of the 17-pounder compared to the 3-inch gun. This gave the M10 Achilles a much more defining profile and attempts were made to hide this larger cannon length with optical illusion. Aside from the gun conversion, the M10 Achilles also had an extra 17 mm of armour welded onto the front and sides of the hull for added protection, plus a 20 mm shield on the top of the turret to compensate for the open-turret design. About 1,000 M10 Achilles with the 17-pounders were ordered, but by D-Day, only 124 were available and 816 were done by the end of the year. The low number of these converted Achilles made meant that any lost units were hard to replace with a 17-pounder one, and the disgruntled crew would be issued a M10 with a 3-inch gun instead. In the end, about a total of 1,000 Achilles were converted into 17-pounder ones by the end of World War II, making the M10 Achillies the second-most numerous design to mount the 17-pounder, coming before the Sherman Firefly.

Combat usage

The British doctrine with the Achilles differed from the Americans who saw it as a reserve tank destroyer, the British viewed it as a mobile anti-tank gun, thus the Achilles served in a role akin to the StuG III in German service, moving the 17-pounder into position to take a shot on incoming German Tiger or Panther tanks. These Achilles were used more with Churchill tank units rather than the medium tanks due to the lack of 17-pounder equipped on Churchills while the medium tanks have the Firefly available for use. Disadvantages with the M10 Achilles design were carried over from the original, the slow turret traverse speed, high profile, and open-top turret made it a rather harder vehicle to use than a regular tank, but it still had it advantages and was still suitable for the role it had.

The Achilles were deployed on D-Day onward in artillery forces in anti-tank regiments in armoured divisions. A typical anti-tank regiment would have four batteries, two with towed 17-pounders, one equipped with 17-pounder Achilles, and another with regular M10s with the 3-inch gun (though replaced with another Achilles unit once more were available). A notable event with the Achilles was during Operation Charnwood, where Achilles in the 62nd Anti-Tank Regiment fought off a German counterattack comprising of Panzer IVs and Panthers from the 12th Panzer Regiment were routed by the Achilles 17-pounder fires, destroying about 13 German tanks with the loss of four Achilles knocked out and four more damaged.

Screenshots and fan art

Skins and camouflages for the _____ from live.warthunder.com.

Images

The Littlefield Achilles in California.

Additional information (links)

References


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uk_17_pdr_m10_achilles.png

Icon-country-gbr.png 17 pounder Self-Propelled M10 Achilles
Nation Britain
Type Tank Destroyer
Rank 3
Battle Rating
4.0
4.0
4.0

   Metric✓       Imperial   

   Metric       Imperial✓   

Characteristics
Weight
29,600 kg
65,256 lb
Number of Crew 5
Hull armour thickness
38.1/19.05/19.05/9.5 mm
1.5/0.75/0.75/0.375 inches
Statistics
Engine power (stock)
582 hp
363 hp
363 hp
Engine power (upgraded)
717 hp
410 hp
410 hp
HP/ton ratio (stock)
19.66
19.97
12.26
12.46
12.26
12.46
HP/ton ratio (Upgraded)
24.22
24.61
13.85
14.07
13.85
14.07
Max speed
45 km/h
27.8 mph
41 km/h
25.6 mph
41 km/h
25.6 mph
Main Weapon
1 x 76 mm QF 17-pounder Cannon
Ammo stowage 50 rounds
Vertical guidance -10°/30°
Secondary Weapon
1 x 12.7 mm M2HB Heavy machine gun
Ammo stowage 300 rounds
Mount Pintle mount
Vertical guidance -10°/70°
Horizontal guidance -60°/60°
Economy
Required RP 26,000 RP
Vehicle cost 100,000 SL
Crew training cost 29,000 SL
Max repair cost*
1,400 SL
1,160 SL
1,280 SL
Free repair time (Stock)
13h 41m
20h 17m
20h 18m
Free repair time (Upgraded)
4h 33m
6h 45m
6h 46m
Warning: this sidebar is a WIP, and can be incorrect. Last updated 1.77.2.165.